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The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful #679414
07/10/20 07:32 PM
07/10/20 07:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,182
Tuco Offline OP
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Tuco  Offline OP
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Sorry for the blunt title, I tried a more polite "Honest feedback: I don't like the way Larian defaults control of the whole party" but I ran out of characters half way through the sentence.

Aaaanyway, back to the topic.

This control based on the position of a single character with all companions defaulting on auto-follow is genuinely cumbersome when you compare it to pretty much any other RPG in the same subgenre: the old BG games, Torment, Icewind Dale, Temple of Elemental Evil, Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder, etc., where you simply cliclck and drag to select multiple characters, keep them in a formation you can rotate dragging the cursor and you can quickly send each one of them in different direction with ONE click.


There are several problems with the Larian solution:

- it's slower to use properly when precision is required.
- it's less accurate.
- it's a mess that turns into a comedic skit with idiots running randomly anywhere in any situation where you need to give everyone QUICK instructions on where to position.
- that mess can be deadly when there are combat triggers and/or traps around.

I can't honestly think of a single excuse to defend this "innovative" system they introduced since DOS1 in comparison with the above-mentioned titles.

I have to ask my fellows forum dwelllers: is there ANYONE who actually likes the Larian system the most? And if that's the case can that good soul (may the gods have mercy on him) tell us WHY?




Last edited by Sadurian; 15/11/20 07:59 PM. Reason: Mod edit to alter thread title; OP's request

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #679423
07/10/20 07:35 PM
07/10/20 07:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
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Warlocke Offline
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Warlocke  Offline
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I would prefer a more traditional way of selecting characters. I had one situation where I jumped somewhere with my character and my companions went running off to meet me there on foot, immediately got into combat, and I had to reload. Dragging and selecting would be much better.

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #679430
07/10/20 07:37 PM
07/10/20 07:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 422
USA
UnderworldHades Offline
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I kind of like it, but honestly its not that great when combat is about to start. Party members just don't stick close enough or are doing random shit because i can't control all 4 by selecting them all. Yes, i definitely want shadowheart ALL the way in the back where it takes her 2 turns to even get close enough to do anything. The Ai and its pathfinding is dreadful currently.

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #679442
07/10/20 07:41 PM
07/10/20 07:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 5
ElComunista Offline
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i'd prefer the classic system myself.

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #679481
07/10/20 07:57 PM
07/10/20 07:57 PM
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Posts: 660
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Wormerine Offline
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Didn't play BG3 myself, but I found controls in D:OS to be rather frustrating. More fiddly, and less precise then the old system. I see it mostly as the system being designed around controlling a single character, rather then the whole party - a theme that resonates throughout the D:OSs design.

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #679524
07/10/20 08:15 PM
07/10/20 08:15 PM
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Posts: 38
Akari Offline
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Akari  Offline
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I have to say that you are right, is one of the more frustrating things in the game.

I do understand the way larian controls movement, and it works great when you can individually manage single members without no one following, but i will love so much, and will help so much if in adition to the DOS movement we had a select all/drag/shift click, plus formations ...

Also ... if you are pathing automatically and see me jump, jump, dont walk around
If you see me stealth, stealth, dont make me click steall in every single character, summon, familiar, friend .... (Yo gave me the option to disconect a party member and make the others dont follow, thats enought if i want to stealth only one), but if they move in a group, they should stealth in a group.

Funny d&d scene

1 character: "lets go in stealth"
its two friends: "naaa, you stealth we go with you walking normaly while we sing"

PD: i have a document 3 pages of notes that i have to post after my 12 hours playing XD

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #679547
07/10/20 08:25 PM
07/10/20 08:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 363
Quebec
Baraz Offline
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Baraz  Offline
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I just would like characters, when out of combat, to automatically avoid spots that cause damage (fire/brine/acid...) and holes.

I also agree a simple system to select characters to move is needed instead of the obscure "drag portrait out of group". They could also stop the auto-follow when a character is not selected.

Last edited by Baraz; 07/10/20 08:33 PM.
Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Baraz] #679672
07/10/20 09:19 PM
07/10/20 09:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 61
Gabriel Farishta Offline
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Originally Posted by Baraz
I just would like characters, when out of combat, to automatically avoid spots that cause damage (fire/brine/acid...) and holes.

I also agree a simple system to select characters to move is needed instead of the obscure "drag portrait out of group". They could also stop the auto-follow when a character is not selected.


Just a minor comment on this. I noticed that no group member will follow a sneaking character. This presents a (rather cumbersome) work-around: sneak everyone into position one-by-one...

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #679702
07/10/20 09:37 PM
07/10/20 09:37 PM
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Jebble Offline
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Jebble  Offline
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The classic system is so much better. I have always found the DOS party movement to be very clunky.

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #679838
07/10/20 10:52 PM
07/10/20 10:52 PM
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Posts: 41
Meeshe Offline
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Party Formations would go a long way to fixing the issues with the party's movement. but yeah, so many times they run through fire, or goo, or whatever is everywhere on the ground (but thats another different issue) or even just when a fight begins.

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #679911
07/10/20 11:23 PM
07/10/20 11:23 PM
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Willyto Offline
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I absolutely agree with the OP. Everything he mentioned is just right.

Something as important as characters and party control can't be allowed to be this bad. My guess is that this is done so people who play with a pad can play casually without nothing to worry about but it's not a good way for anyone playing RPG on PC with a keyboard and mouse. The fact that you can't even select your whole party with the mouse dragging a square over them or select a party formation with your melee characters in front and the healers or ranged in the back is awful. This party movement triggers a lot of traps and puts your party in danger in some situations.

I would like to see any explanation by Larian that justifies this.

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Baraz] #679924
07/10/20 11:28 PM
07/10/20 11:28 PM
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RumRunner151 Offline
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Originally Posted by Baraz
I just would like characters, when out of combat, to automatically avoid spots that cause damage (fire/brine/acid...) and holes.

This is my issue. The rest is workable if not ideal.


Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: RumRunner151] #680041
08/10/20 01:04 AM
08/10/20 01:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 7
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Claudio_420 Offline
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I agree with the OP.
If it cannot be changed, then at least fix the poor AI for the companions

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #680107
08/10/20 02:00 AM
08/10/20 02:00 AM
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tangelo1023 Offline
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I'm genuinely confused. Isn't the "control single character and have party follow" method how every 3d crpg has done things? That's how it was in NWN, NWN2, and Dragon Age Origins. This isn't some radical thing that Larian introduced with DOS1. It's a standard for 3d crpgs.

Last edited by tangelo1023; 08/10/20 02:01 AM.
Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #680120
08/10/20 02:10 AM
08/10/20 02:10 AM
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KillerRabbit Offline
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+1 to op. I'm having lots of fun but this must change.

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: tangelo1023] #680134
08/10/20 02:19 AM
08/10/20 02:19 AM
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Tuco Offline OP
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Tuco  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by tangelo1023
I'm genuinely confused. Isn't the "control single character and have party follow" method how every 3d crpg has done things? That's how it was in NWN, NWN2, and Dragon Age Origins. This isn't some radical thing that Larian introduced with DOS1. It's a standard for 3d crpgs.

Well, it's quite interesting to me that you managed to name a bunch of games that did party control worse than the examples I mentioned.

Still, DOS 1, 2 and this BG3 are somehow managing to be the absolute worst of the entire list, which is almost impressive.

Honestly, I'd be rather impressed with most of what I'm seeing of this BG3 in most aspects, but this one is a Larian trademark I could GLADLY do without.
Especially because unlike other limitations (i.e. a four men party comes to mind) it's not even a trade-off with meaningful pros and cons. It's straight up worse than the alternative from whatever angle one may watch at it.











Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #680155
08/10/20 02:35 AM
08/10/20 02:35 AM
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tangelo1023 Offline
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I mentioned those games because they are also 3d crpgs unlike the games that you have listed. This isn't anything innovative. With the pre-rendered 2d engines of the games that you have listed, having a "select all" party movement would be the default. With a 3d engine, a "select all" option would play just like it does now with the same AI pathfinding issues. Simultaneously controlling all 4 characters in a 3d game would still have the same issues that you're describing.

That's why I'm asking what you would offer as a possible solution to this. From what you're describing, the problem is with the AI. Not the movement system itself.

Last edited by tangelo1023; 08/10/20 02:36 AM.
Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #680167
08/10/20 02:52 AM
08/10/20 02:52 AM
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Posts: 154
Orion's Belt
Doomlord Offline
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I agree, its so bad I have to assume they are still working on this, There is no option that I have found that gives me the leader commands to my companions like stay so far away, or search traps, or blast away. There is nothing.


Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Legion of Doom - Dungeons and Dragons online - server Orion -
Doom ~ Khazadoom ~ Nexus
Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #680179
08/10/20 03:04 AM
08/10/20 03:04 AM
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Quebec
Baraz Offline
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Baraz  Offline
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I noticed something : my familiar avoids dangerous spots properly it seems.

So I am guessing companion pathing will be fixed soon.
( still remains making controlling party movement simple )

Re: The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful [Re: Tuco] #680240
08/10/20 03:48 AM
08/10/20 03:48 AM
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Posts: 13
mithril Offline
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mithril  Offline
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Yes the movement and control of the party is horrific. Want to sneak with one party member to scout, its difficult. Need to split the party for a moment, good luck. Formations, nope. In a tactical turn based combat game position is important. Scouting, setting up ambushes, etc. It also hurts when a fight is over and the other party members want to run across active fire, acid, and other hazards.

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