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Originally Posted by Skin Overbone
you not being able to operate the system, doesn't mean it's bad. Having to get used to a system doesn't make it bad. You people just suck at adapting and if you run into trouble you start crying. Same shit every day. if you wanna ambush at the start of a fight, untether your party morons and go into turn based mode before engaging if the enemies are patrolling. LEARN THE GAME GODDAMNIT


Please, drop this condescending bullshit. Some of us have been playing with this "system" since it was introduced in DOS 1.
I know perfectly how to leverage it and how to operate around it at any level.

That degree of familiarity is PRECISELY what makes me dislike it even more.
As I said multiple times across the thread, if anything getting more used to this mechanic (and its limitations) only increased my bitterness toward it.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
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Originally Posted by Skin Overbone
you not being able to operate the system, doesn't mean it's bad. Having to get used to a system doesn't make it bad. You people just suck at adapting and if you run into trouble you start crying. Same shit every day. if you wanna ambush at the start of a fight, untether your party morons and go into turn based mode before engaging if the enemies are patrolling. LEARN THE GAME GODDAMNIT



I'm sure I could find a way to steer a car without a steering wheel as well. But it would be very annoying and has nothing to do with my skill as a driver.
Stop being an apologist for bad game mechanics. It helps absolutely no one. Not the players and not the developers.

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I have to agree that the way to control party in DAO and PoE is much better than it is in DOS and BG3.

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Originally Posted by Peranor

I'm sure I could find a way to steer a car without a steering wheel as well. But it would be very annoying and has nothing to do with my skill as a driver.
Stop being an apologist for bad game mechanics. It helps absolutely no one. Not the players and not the developers.

Excellent analogy, I have to say.

And I obviously agree with the conclusion. Some people seem to be under the impression than deflecting any criticism instead of addressing it will do the game a favor, when it's almost benevolent sabotage.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
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Originally Posted by Skin Overbone
you not being able to operate the system, doesn't mean it's bad. Having to get used to a system doesn't make it bad. You people just suck at adapting and if you run into trouble you start crying. Same shit every day. if you wanna ambush at the start of a fight, untether your party morons and go into turn based mode before engaging if the enemies are patrolling. LEARN THE GAME GODDAMNIT

Don't feel so special. Everybody is able to "operate the system" but it doesn't mean it's a good system. How dare we leave our feedback during Early Access which we payed a full price for.
You people just suck at understanding that your opinion is not the right one and if you run into different opinion you start crying. Same shit every day.

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Ahem.

Before bothering to respond to Skin Overbone, you might find checking his posting history worthwhile. It will save you time and effort.

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Good thing this forum has an ignore feature. Don't feed the trolls. 🙂

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Originally Posted by dunehunter
I have to agree that the way to control party in DAO and PoE is much better than it is in DOS and BG3.


That's because those games had a clear idea of what they wanted to be instead of suffering from Identity Crisis. Truly, this is a game reminiscent of the times we live in.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 21/10/20 12:01 AM.
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Originally Posted by Skin Overbone
you not being able to operate the system, doesn't mean it's bad. Having to get used to a system doesn't make it bad. You people just suck at adapting and if you run into trouble you start crying. Same shit every day. if you wanna ambush at the start of a fight, untether your party morons and go into turn based mode before engaging if the enemies are patrolling. LEARN THE GAME GODDAMNIT


Your opinion it's like using hand screwdriver even if electric ones are in the market.


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The DOS1, DOS2 and now BG3 party management system is closer to using a coin instead of a screwdriver. Or maybe your fingers.

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Originally Posted by Sadurian
Ahem.

Before bothering to respond to Skin Overbone, you might find checking his posting history worthwhile. It will save you time and effort.

Hm, usually they prefer different type of topics for trolling, what a weird choice lol. It doesn't really matter anyway. He just helped people to bring this topic up again, which is a good thing, I guess.

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There seems to be a strange notion that fans of the BG series would know or care how controls are handled in the D:OS series. I've never played D:OS, and I have no intention of doing so. If you're going for the big time by reaching for BG3, the fans of that series should be heavily considered with the controls.

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Originally Posted by Traycor
There seems to be a strange notion that fans of the BG series would know or care how controls are handled in the D:OS series. I've never played D:OS, and I have no intention of doing so. If you're going for the big time by reaching for BG3, the fans of that series should be heavily considered with the controls.



I've played both D:OS 1 and 2. And while I like them both very much I'l tell you right away that I didn't like them because of their control scheme, I liked them in spite of their control scheme smile

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I think the problem is that Larian has made its brand with the motor it used for the DOS, wich had a really awfull movement system both with the controller (I play DOS on PS4) and the mouse-keyboard.

Still they made their name with those two games and so they landed the big contract: to make the third act of a D & D based rpg that is considered a milestone in such games, the 3rd chapter of Baldur's Gate.

Obviously they're going to exploit the motor they used in the games that became their brand. I just hope they'll take account of the criticism (is annoying to have to make jump the characters one by one et so on) and try to make the movements more smooth and that the story will be engaging like that of the Baldur's Gate of the days gone or the two DOS.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Sorry for the blunt title, I tried a more polite "Honest feedback: I don't like the way Larian defaults control of the whole party" but I ran out of characters half way through the sentence.

Aaaanyway, back to the topic.

This control based on the position of a single character with all companions defaulting on auto-follow is genuinely cumbersome when you compare it to pretty much any other RPG in the same subgenre: the old BG games, Torment, Icewind Dale, Temple of Elemental Evil, Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder, etc., where you simply cliclck and drag to select multiple characters, keep them in a formation you can rotate dragging the cursor and you can quickly send each one of them in different direction with ONE click.


There are several problems with the Larian solution:

- it's slower to use properly when precision is required.
- it's less accurate.
- it's a mess that turns into a comedic skit with idiots running randomly anywhere in any situation where you need to give everyone QUICK instructions on where to position.
- that mess can be deadly when there are combat triggers and/or traps around.

I can't honestly think of a single excuse to defend this "innovative" system they introduced since DOS1 in comparison with the above-mentioned titles.

I have to ask my fellows forum dwelllers: is there ANYONE who actually likes the Larian system the most? And if that's the case can that good soul (may the gods have mercy on him) tell us WHY?




Yes I agree, it becomes hard work. For example I've carefully managed to guide my characters around say some pesky vines, and then I click on another character and all the characters run back towards that character straight back into the bloody vines! I know I can use turn based mode, but it's hard work for how often you have to do this sort of thing.

Put simply you should be able to control where your characters stand without any question or doubt, not have directing be one of the harder mechanics of the game that often leads me to having to over rest/eat after one of my characters clumsily runs back into a trap that the whole party knows is there

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Originally Posted by Bufotenina
I think the problem is that Larian has made its brand with the motor it used for the DOS, wich had a really awfull movement system both with the controller (I play DOS on PS4) and the mouse-keyboard.

Still they made their name with those two games and so they landed the big contract: to make the third act of a D & D based rpg that is considered a milestone in such games, the 3rd chapter of Baldur's Gate.

Obviously they're going to exploit the motor they used in the games that became their brand. I just hope they'll take account of the criticism (is annoying to have to make jump the characters one by one et so on) and try to make the movements more smooth and that the story will be engaging like that of the Baldur's Gate of the days gone or the two DOS.

The bigger game, with the bigger budget is their opportunity to make that "motor" better. To improve systems they didn't have the resources to do right the first time(s) around.
Larian themselves straight up said BG3 is a AAA game with a AAA budget, and they staffed up and expanded their studio to make it. There's no excuse not to improve their tech where it's weak, and it's weak in the area of party controls.

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Originally Posted by Dangerman33
[quote=Tuco] and then I click on another character and all the characters run back towards that character straight back into the bloody vines!


That is annoying, but just to be sure, you know that you can (and must, in this case) unlink your party members, right?

Originally Posted by Dangerman33
[quote=Tuco] ...after one of my characters clumsily runs back into a trap...


Good point. Sigh. Characters should avoid damage if there is a path that achieves that.

To the general point of the OP: DA:O has already been mentioned. In exploration mode, I really really like to navigate one character via WASD from the over the shoulder perspective (you can zoom out to the top down perspective at any time and back to the 3rd person over the shoulder one), with or without the party following. It is immersive.

Oh, and BTW, DA:O also had fog of war. Scouting was an important part of exploration and gameplay, you could not just move your camera to the back of a room or around the corner of a dungeon to check if some wizard was in an ambush position.

Last edited by TimVanBeek; 21/10/20 08:22 PM.
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I seriously doubt there's ANY sort of engine limitation preventing the implementation of better controls, to be perfectly honest.
The engine is one of the most solid things about their recent products.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
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Yeh, using "the engine" as some sort of argument point is always misleveraged.

the engine they built DOS2 on was very solid, but not every game needs to use the same mechanics leveraged by the engine.

they COULD change things.

they chose not to.

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I just watched how Solasta does it and we basically need that. It's so precise and smooth like butter.

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