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Originally Posted by NoLoGo
Originally Posted by KingTiki


I have and he delivers arguments. You on the other side behave very hostile and are spewing falsehoods like I pointed out above. Which makes it impossible to have a discussion in good faith. So either step it up or consider other platforms for your "feedback".

So he starts his "valuable contribution" with a huge ad hom and you actually defend it. Brilliant. Cant beat those mental gymnasics bro 10/10. Incest DnD community.


You still fail to see that you were just factually wrong. And now you are kicking and punching around verbally. Fact is: height advantage is not a core dnd rule. And my suspicions are getting stronger that you really have no clue about 5e, as you state so many falsehoods. You probably just dont want a DnD game, which is okay, but maybe you can realize that a 5e game then is not the right thing for you. Would be easier for all of us. There is a lot of great stuff out there.

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Originally Posted by KingTiki
Originally Posted by NoLoGo
Originally Posted by KingTiki


I have and he delivers arguments. You on the other side behave very hostile and are spewing falsehoods like I pointed out above. Which makes it impossible to have a discussion in good faith. So either step it up or consider other platforms for your "feedback".

So he starts his "valuable contribution" with a huge ad hom and you actually defend it. Brilliant. Cant beat those mental gymnasics bro 10/10. Incest DnD community.


You still fail to see that you were just factually wrong. And now you are kicking and punching around verbally. Fact is: height advantage is not a core dnd rule. And my suspicions are getting stronger that you really have no clue about 5e, as you state so many falsehoods. You probably just dont want a DnD game, which is okay, but maybe you can realize that a 5e game then is not the right thing for you. Would be easier for all of us. There is a lot of great stuff out there.

You being low key looking for conflict after your first post and now spamming when i finally address you is predictable to say the least.

But yea cant have an decent conversation when you think ad homs are actual contributions.

Advantage is clearly in the rules. But yea keep going for those ad homs.

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It is just clear that you don't really know the rules. Tell me where exactly there is the "Height gives advantage" rule. Emphasis on rule. I already said that a DM can give advantage where ever he sees fit.

If you are offended that I point out that you don't know the rules and think I'm wrong: proof it. Give me the PHB/DMG page. You can't.



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But yea cant have an decent conversation

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Cant beat those mental gymnasics bro 10/10. Incest DnD community.


Where is the clown emoji?

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Solasta is a much closer representation of 5E rules than BG3 and the result is much more satisfying combat. So I strongly disagree that the 5E core rules are 'garbage'.

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Originally Posted by NoLoGo


Advantage is clearly in the rules. But yea keep going for those ad homs.



Yeah, no. You're wrong, you know you're wrong, and you got called out for *being* wrong, and now you're back pedaling because of how clearly it demonstrated your lack of knowledge regarding the rules of 5e that you are so vehemently complaining about.

Advantage is a core part of 5e.

There is ZERO rule saying that you gain Advantage against a target if you are higher than that target. Since you *clearly* have no idea what you're talking about, here's the text straight from the 5e PHB you definitely don't own:

"You usually gain advantage or disadvantage through the use of special abilities, actions, or spells. Inspiration (see chapter 4) can also give a character advantage on checks related to the character's personality, ideals, or bonds. The DM can also decide that circumstances influence a roll in one direction or the other and grant advantage or impose disadvantage as a result."

Boy howdy, would you look at that? Deferment to DM discretion .... and not a damn thing about Advantage from Height. Golly gee it's like you're wrong and you should both admit you were wrong and apologize to the original responses for pointing out you were wrong.

Last edited by Isaac Springsong; 21/10/20 08:58 AM.
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As for me, I think d&d 5 is pretty easy system, especially after playing Pathfinder. But Larian did great job with tactical maps, so in Baldur's gate 3 easy system creates really great tactical encounters, and it is great

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Guys, be civil.

If you can't constructively participate in the thread's topic without starting to lash at eachother, consider not typing.

Continuing to type in such manners will get you in trouble.

I suggest not to try. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by NoLoGo
[quote=Aurgelmir]
Core DnD does not consider positioning. No flanking, no "backstabs" in the literal sense. Thats horrible for tactical combat. The only thing core rules DnD cares about is adjacent allies - and for pen and paper that is totally fine because it simplifies combat and in pen and paper not everyone runs maps and figures. But here the game is literally you being a "figure on a map"



That is incorrect. Flanking rule exists as an optional rule in the Dungeon Master Guide. It is designed, of course, to be used with miniatures. Miniatures combat in D&D 5E feels great btw smile


[Linked Image]

The Player handbook also has rules for underwater combat and mounted combat, so I'd say they're quite complete.






Last edited by Rimm; 21/10/20 09:30 AM. Reason: syntax
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D&D has never had the best combat system in my eyes, but it is what it is. Plenty of other games have more detailed, more realistic, or more elegant combat systems, but they are not D&D. D&D obviously works as a game because it is so popular - nobody is forcing gamers to buy and play the game. I don't like the way a lot of the game works but I am apparently not the majority, and my issues with the system are tempered with a long association with the game and an acknowledgement that D&D rules just work that way. It is D&D and I accept that when I play the game.

BG3 is game that is heavily based in D&D 5e (not exactly, but that would never be the case), and the developers have stated that they would be using D&D 5e from day one. The BG franchise is immersed in a Forgotten Realms setting which has been used for AD&D and D&D since the very early days.

I don't know that, were I to so vehemently hate a set of rules, I would be willing to spend money on buying a game that so clearly uses those rules. You don't buy a cow and then complain that it is too bovine.

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Originally Posted by Rimm
That is incorrect. Flanking rule exists as an optional rule in the Dungeon Master Guide. It is designed, of course, to be used with miniatures. Miniatures combat in D&D 5E feels great btw smile

Yes, we use flanking a lot. It is a little contrived mechanically because you need to line up exactly opposite each other, but the rule is there.

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Rimm's post also makes a fantastic point that of all the rules Larian *didn't* implement, neglecting Cover is one of the biggest mistakes. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=707485#Post707485

Implementing Cover, removing Adv/Dis from elevation, and soooo many problems get fixed.

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Originally Posted by Isaac Springsong
Rimm's post also makes a fantastic point that of all the rules Larian *didn't* implement, neglecting Cover is one of the biggest mistakes. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=707485#Post707485

Implementing Cover, removing Adv/Dis from elevation, and soooo many problems get fixed.


True, well that and making all those bonus action combat maneuvers actual actions...

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Originally Posted by NoLoGo


Advantage is clearly in the rules. But yea keep going for those ad homs.



... advantage? Yeah but "height" doesn't automatically confer advantage or disadvantage, in older editions there were modifiers for such things, or at least suggested. However, "height advantage" is not a part of the CORE concept of 5e.

Seems to me you are not as familiar with the rules as someone should be before criticising them. At least if your goal is to be taken seriously.

Last edited by CrestOfArtorias; 21/10/20 10:05 AM.
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Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by Isaac Springsong
Rimm's post also makes a fantastic point that of all the rules Larian *didn't* implement, neglecting Cover is one of the biggest mistakes. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=707485#Post707485

Implementing Cover, removing Adv/Dis from elevation, and soooo many problems get fixed.


True, well that and making all those bonus action combat maneuvers actual actions...


+1

Also, for all the people saying 5e is bad.....can't help but notice you haven't been listing any game systems that do it *better*?

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Larian, being the game designers, are taking the part of the tabletop GM.

Traditionally, and written into every rules edition of D&D that I remember, the GM has the right (the duty, even) to alter the existing rules to suit the group's preferred gameplay style. As CrestOfAstorias says, height does not automatically confer any bonus or penalty, but this is where a tabletop GM would step in and choose to give Advantage or Disadvantage.

So, the rules as written are not the same as the situation in the game, because the 'GM' (Larian) has declared it so. As with any other such ruling, I dare say that it will be assessed and reassessed, and either toned down or kept as it is.

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Originally Posted by Sadurian
Larian, being the game designers, are taking the part of the tabletop GM.

Traditionally, and written into every rules edition of D&D that I remember, the GM has the right (the duty, even) to alter the existing rules to suit the group's preferred gameplay style. As CrestOfAstorias says, height does not automatically confer any bonus or penalty, but this is where a tabletop GM would step in and choose to give Advantage or Disadvantage.

So, the rules as written are not the same as the situation in the game, because the 'GM' (Larian) has declared it so. As with any other such ruling, I dare say that it will be assessed and reassessed, and either toned down or kept as it is.


I agree that Larian are the DM implementing their own house rules, but at some liminal point when you change lots of rules, it stops being D&D and becomes something else entirely for better or worse. I don't claim to know exactly where that line is drawn, but Larian have crossed it.

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Originally Posted by Isaac Springsong
Also, for all the people saying 5e is bad.....can't help but notice you haven't been listing any game systems that do it *better*?

I could list several that I find better, but my opinion is not yours.

I generally use GURPS and that is my favourite at present, but have played too many systems to list. My first break from AD&D revelation was with Runequest 2e back in 1980/1, where I discovered the joys of separate attack, parry and block rolls, and armour that reduced damage rather than made you harder to hit. I used Phoenix Command many years ago, which was ultra-detailed but slow and painfully heavy on numbers. Chivalry and Sorcery was similarly very slow and heavy on numbers. At the other end of the scale I played Prince Valiant, where all challenges were resolved by throwing coins and counting heads and tails, and the higher number won.

Every game system has its critics, but you usually find one that you prefer, be that ultra detailed or ultra simplistic or anything in between. We all find our own balance.

Last edited by Sadurian; 21/10/20 10:23 AM.
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Originally Posted by Sadurian
Larian, being the game designers, are taking the part of the tabletop GM.

Traditionally, and written into every rules edition of D&D that I remember, the GM has the right (the duty, even) to alter the existing rules to suit the group's preferred gameplay style. As CrestOfAstorias says, height does not automatically confer any bonus or penalty, but this is where a tabletop GM would step in and choose to give Advantage or Disadvantage.

So, the rules as written are not the same as the situation in the game, because the 'GM' (Larian) has declared it so. As with any other such ruling, I dare say that it will be assessed and reassessed, and either toned down or kept as it is.


I agree with the sentiment, however as with every session on every healthy table I have ever participated in, if you do not like the way the game is currently going, or feel its not fun, you let the DM know smile

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Originally Posted by Wrathbone
I agree that Larian are the DM implementing their own house rules, but at some liminal point when you change lots of rules, it stops being D&D and becomes something else entirely for better or worse. I don't claim to know exactly where that line is drawn, but Larian have crossed it.


+1 to this.

Also house rules are very often very table-related. And this having such a huge audience I think the better way to do it would be as close as possible to RAW and then let the modders have their way. 5e is damned popular, probably the most popular system out there right now.

I am btw fine with the advantage on heights. This is a valid DM decision for me (even tho its not raw). But completely reworking things like reactions or pimping spells with new effects is a little more in the direction of bad homebrew for me. I once talked to a DM that reworked the Inspiration in a way that would have made it exactly like the Lucky feat. It was a horrible idea.

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Originally Posted by KingTiki
Originally Posted by Wrathbone
I agree that Larian are the DM implementing their own house rules, but at some liminal point when you change lots of rules, it stops being D&D and becomes something else entirely for better or worse. I don't claim to know exactly where that line is drawn, but Larian have crossed it.


+1 to this.

Also house rules are very often very table-related. And this having such a huge audience I think the better way to do it would be as close as possible to RAW and then let the modders have their way. 5e is damned popular, probably the most popular system out there right now.

I am btw fine with the advantage on heights. This is a valid DM decision for me (even tho its not raw). But completely reworking things like reactions or pimping spells with new effects is a little more in the direction of bad homebrew for me. I once talked to a DM that reworked the Inspiration in a way that would have made it exactly like the Lucky feat. It was a horrible idea.


+1 to that.

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