Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by sinogy
Bravo. You summed up perfectly. This game lacks a lot of cool DnD mechanics yet the developers seemed to be so eager to serve some kind of totally unnecessary mechanics they call romance! At least, they could have made it optional. As you said perfectly not every player should spend some of their play time trying to dodge the contrived romantic sub-plots.

I mean we are talking about a cRPG without day/night cycle, with free camera scouting which renders DnD scouting mechanics, with wherever and whenever you wish long rest which renders so many mechanics in terms of magic economy and party setups, etc. etc... Yet, what we are served is some so called romance dialog options with unlikeable characters.


Well, that's catering to mass market tastes for ya... is it really so unexpected, though? You played Larian games before, haven't you? wink

Joined: Oct 2020
S
sinogy Offline OP
member
OP Offline
member
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by sinogy
Bravo. You summed up perfectly. This game lacks a lot of cool DnD mechanics yet the developers seemed to be so eager to serve some kind of totally unnecessary mechanics they call romance! At least, they could have made it optional. As you said perfectly not every player should spend some of their play time trying to dodge the contrived romantic sub-plots.

I mean we are talking about a cRPG without day/night cycle, with free camera scouting which renders DnD scouting mechanics, with wherever and whenever you wish long rest which renders so many mechanics in terms of magic economy and party setups, etc. etc... Yet, what we are served is some so called romance dialog options with unlikeable characters.


Well, that's catering to mass market tastes for ya... is it really so unexpected, though? You played Larian games before, haven't you? wink


Yeah unfortunately that's that...

I played DOS2 until the last act then I quit. I mean it was an ok game but not a great game which almost everybody says so!

I was foolishly hoping BG3 was gonna be a true DnD cRPG. But, the design path Larian has taken for BG3 is too clear to ignore. It's gonna be DOS3.
It is so obvious. Heck, even the marketing art has the same language. Look at he banner at the top. It has the same design approach with that of DOS2.

Last edited by sinogy; 22/10/20 12:27 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by sinogy
Bravo. You summed up perfectly. This game lacks a lot of cool DnD mechanics yet the developers seemed to be so eager to serve some kind of totally unnecessary mechanics they call romance! At least, they could have made it optional. As you said perfectly not every player should spend some of their play time trying to dodge the contrived romantic sub-plots.

I mean we are talking about a cRPG without day/night cycle, with free camera scouting which renders DnD scouting mechanics, with wherever and whenever you wish long rest which renders so many mechanics in terms of magic economy and party setups, etc. etc... Yet, what we are served is some so called romance dialog options with unlikeable characters.


Well, that's catering to mass market tastes for ya... is it really so unexpected, though? You played Larian games before, haven't you? wink


Yeah unfortunately that's that...

I played DOS2 until the last act then I quit. I mean it was an ok game but not a great game which almost everybody says so!

I was foolishly hoping BG3 was gonna be a true DnD cRPG. But, the design path Larian has taken for BG3 is too clear to ignore. It's gonna be DOS3.


Yup, seams like it... then again, look at the lack of widespread success other games in this current CRPG renaissance (Pillars1+2, Pathfinder) have achieved. Like it or not, actual, mechanically solid (and thus more complex) CRPG's are still niche in today's games market. DOS1+2 not so much... so they did something "right" there (ie. they simply replaced what made past CRPG's great, with "dumbed down" spectacle and wacky humor... but don't quote me on that. wink )

Last edited by WarBaby2; 22/10/20 12:34 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Certain things need to be changed for sure.

1) Don't make everyone horny. The flirting between characters should be an on going thing throughout the gameplay and concluded then.
Yes Affinity and character's approval of you is important but it totally feels weird for Gale to be hitting on me randomly that night and being so crushed that I turn him down... its just cringe man.

Have Gale try to flirt with my character, I turn him down, He grumbles. This could be randomly generated event as I play the game. Like the time I stepped in front of the crossbow to protect Sazza. Have him say something that I could respond with a flirt. This should start the series of flirty dialogue lines that both Gale and player experience until the Tiefling party where finally Gale and my character decide to take it further.

That would feel much more organic.
And if it HAS to happen that night then here is option 2!

2) When the party starts Astarion has a question mark over his head about how much he hates the party. And he says he wants to have some fun.
This time instead of telling you wants to bang me how about he asks me "Hey bud, The wine is crap but at least maybe I can find a good bang! What about you? Who do you have your eye on?"

This gives the player total control of who they want. Instead of other characters hitting on you, you tell Astarion "hey I had my eye on Shadowheart, she is hot".
Now whether Shadowheart overhears this coversation or Astarion is the best wingman ever... you take your pick.
Thats when she starts flirting with you and maybe invites you to the "after-party"

Of course this may be a little too quick for some so there is always option 3.

3) Player hits on the tieflings and just has a one night stand. The other Origin companions make commentary and maybe give some flirts of their own.

But besides all that... for the love of god overhaul the Tiefling party, an office party has more energy and fun that whatever it was I saw there at my camp.

Joined: Oct 2020
R
old hand
Offline
old hand
R
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by sinogy
Bravo. You summed up perfectly. This game lacks a lot of cool DnD mechanics yet the developers seemed to be so eager to serve some kind of totally unnecessary mechanics they call romance! At least, they could have made it optional. As you said perfectly not every player should spend some of their play time trying to dodge the contrived romantic sub-plots.

I mean we are talking about a cRPG without day/night cycle, with free camera scouting which renders DnD scouting mechanics, with wherever and whenever you wish long rest which renders so many mechanics in terms of magic economy and party setups, etc. etc... Yet, what we are served is some so called romance dialog options with unlikeable characters.


Well, that's catering to mass market tastes for ya... is it really so unexpected, though? You played Larian games before, haven't you? wink


Yeah unfortunately that's that...

I played DOS2 until the last act then I quit. I mean it was an ok game but not a great game which almost everybody says so!

I was foolishly hoping BG3 was gonna be a true DnD cRPG. But, the design path Larian has taken for BG3 is too clear to ignore. It's gonna be DOS3.


Yup, seams like it... then again, look at the lack of widespread success other games in this current CRPG renaissance (Pillars1+2, Pathfinder) have achieved. Like it or not, actual, mechanically solid (and thus more complex) CRPG's are still niche in today's games market. DOS1+2 not so much... so they did something "right" there (ie. they simply replaced what made past CRPG's great, with "dumbed down" spectacle and wacky humor... but don't quote me on that. wink )


Number of game owners according to Steam spy:
-> POE 1 is between 1-2 mln
-> POE 2 is between 500-1mln
-> Pathfinder is between 500-1mln
-> DoS2 is between 2-5mln !!!
The situation is worse if you look at other statistics.
Unfortunately, old school games are not popular.
Only PoE 1 sold over 1 million copies because it was one of the first classic RPGs in this decade. POE 2 sold much worse.

Last edited by Rhobar121; 22/10/20 01:06 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
S
sinogy Offline OP
member
OP Offline
member
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Eddiar
Certain things need to be changed for sure.

1) Don't make everyone horny. The flirting between characters should be an on going thing throughout the gameplay and concluded then.
Yes Affinity and character's approval of you is important but it totally feels weird for Gale to be hitting on me randomly that night and being so crushed that I turn him down... its just cringe man.

Have Gale try to flirt with my character, I turn him down, He grumbles. This could be randomly generated event as I play the game. Like the time I stepped in front of the crossbow to protect Sazza. Have him say something that I could respond with a flirt. This should start the series of flirty dialogue lines that both Gale and player experience until the Tiefling party where finally Gale and my character decide to take it further.

That would feel much more organic.
And if it HAS to happen that night then here is option 2!

2) When the party starts Astarion has a question mark over his head about how much he hates the party. And he says he wants to have some fun.
This time instead of telling you wants to bang me how about he asks me "Hey bud, The wine is crap but at least maybe I can find a good bang! What about you? Who do you have your eye on?"

This gives the player total control of who they want. Instead of other characters hitting on you, you tell Astarion "hey I had my eye on Shadowheart, she is hot".
Now whether Shadowheart overhears this coversation or Astarion is the best wingman ever... you take your pick.
Thats when she starts flirting with you and maybe invites you to the "after-party"

Of course this may be a little too quick for some so there is always option 3.

3) Player hits on the tieflings and just has a one night stand. The other Origin companions make commentary and maybe give some flirts of their own.

But besides all that... for the love of god overhaul the Tiefling party, an office party has more energy and fun that whatever it was I saw there at my camp.




Yes, make sense. Plus, not everyone has to be accessible to PC. For example, Gale's crush on the goddess might be too strong for him to ignore so that he is completely close to any other intimate possibilities. Things like that could bring realism and depth to character backgrounds. Yet, here we have everyone so special but so accessible at the same time.

And speaking of "1) Don't make everyone horny."... We have Astarion. The dude is horny and giggly even when he talks about game map. What in the hell!!! Why not just put a drag-queen as the party's rogue while you are at it Larian.

Last edited by sinogy; 22/10/20 01:23 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
S
sinogy Offline OP
member
OP Offline
member
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by sinogy
Bravo. You summed up perfectly. This game lacks a lot of cool DnD mechanics yet the developers seemed to be so eager to serve some kind of totally unnecessary mechanics they call romance! At least, they could have made it optional. As you said perfectly not every player should spend some of their play time trying to dodge the contrived romantic sub-plots.

I mean we are talking about a cRPG without day/night cycle, with free camera scouting which renders DnD scouting mechanics, with wherever and whenever you wish long rest which renders so many mechanics in terms of magic economy and party setups, etc. etc... Yet, what we are served is some so called romance dialog options with unlikeable characters.


Well, that's catering to mass market tastes for ya... is it really so unexpected, though? You played Larian games before, haven't you? wink


Yeah unfortunately that's that...

I played DOS2 until the last act then I quit. I mean it was an ok game but not a great game which almost everybody says so!

I was foolishly hoping BG3 was gonna be a true DnD cRPG. But, the design path Larian has taken for BG3 is too clear to ignore. It's gonna be DOS3.


Yup, seams like it... then again, look at the lack of widespread success other games in this current CRPG renaissance (Pillars1+2, Pathfinder) have achieved. Like it or not, actual, mechanically solid (and thus more complex) CRPG's are still niche in today's games market. DOS1+2 not so much... so they did something "right" there (ie. they simply replaced what made past CRPG's great, with "dumbed down" spectacle and wacky humor... but don't quote me on that. wink )


Agreed. It is all about money. Everything else is a corporate lie.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
I think maybe the best and the most easy solution is option 2.

Astarion is horny enough to ask "Hey I am thinking of getting laid tonight. How about you?"

Player then chooses a companion, and then we can have a funny scene where he runs off to your person of interest and you know... its been a looong day.
I can totally see everybody, including Shadowheart who is the hardest nut to crack to say to themselves "Welp, why the hell not? We might die tomorrow so I might as well go for it."

And in Act 2 we can deal with the hilarious will they wont they repercussions.
I much prefer that sort of uncertainty that can have funny or drama potential than Shadowheart referring to my PC as her beloved in every dialogue or worse completely ignoring what happened between us.

Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Yes, I definitely got weird vibes from the writing on this. Felt like I was part of some weird, polyamorous, bisexual sex cult. Also doesn't help that the characters are rather snotty and unlikable.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
I agree it's not romance - let's just hope we can add "yet" in.
But it also makes quite a lot of sense it isn't quite the let's get married scene yet and frankly I prefer it that way.

- I feel Astarion's party invitation is completely in character for him even if his opinion on character isn't the best, so I wouldn't change anything there. Also his relationship with the PC afterward makes sense.

- I've never actually gotten the Wyll scene - must be bugged or something, but in order for anything to happen the PC need to be the one to ask - so what's the problem? After seeing the cutscene on Youtube I have to state though that there's hardly anything more off-putting than a horned lady spying on you through eye prosthesis while you're getting busy.

- Gale will only act on it if you've been asking for it through the elusive and hard to get Weave scene. while I consider his "romance" development by far the best of all available options, the morning after talk though? IRL he'd be flying of my bed, clothes following through the window!

- Shadowheart is really sweet and conflicted about herself in general and her next day reaction actually makes sense in this context.

- Lae'Zel is uh just being herself I guess whatever that's supposed to be

In conclusion Astarion is the only one that doesn't leave the PC bruised the day after (emotionally or physically) which really wouldn't be my first guess...

It really sucks to be left with these cliffhangers though for an unforseeable future. Let me just stare this loud and clear before anyone at Larian gets any ideas I absolutely loathe tragic endings- really I'm capable of uninstalling an never look your way again was this to take place 🤫🤭

Last edited by Azarielle; 22/10/20 09:21 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
C
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
C
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Eddiar
I think maybe the best and the most easy solution is option 2.

Astarion is horny enough to ask "Hey I am thinking of getting laid tonight. How about you?"

Player then chooses a companion, and then we can have a funny scene where he runs off to your person of interest and you know... its been a looong day.
I can totally see everybody, including Shadowheart who is the hardest nut to crack to say to themselves "Welp, why the hell not? We might die tomorrow so I might as well go for it."

And in Act 2 we can deal with the hilarious will they wont they repercussions.
I much prefer that sort of uncertainty that can have funny or drama potential than Shadowheart referring to my PC as her beloved in every dialogue or worse completely ignoring what happened between us.



This reminds me soooo much of DA2, where everyone's complaint want "Anders is hitting on me!!!". Isabella did the exact same thing and noone battered an eye. You have the option to turn him down. It's not like you're being forced into anything.

Joined: Oct 2020
A
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
A
Joined: Oct 2020
Wait you guys get "romacnce" in this game? All I get is Shadowhears disapproval! (Good realism simulator)

Jokes aside. I haven't actually been able to unlock a whole lot of romance sequences. In my evil Run Shadowheart seemed into me, but "She knows better to share a bunk with someone when she's drunk" which I honestly thought was an amazing way to get "rejected, but not rejected"

Minthara was ready to pork, but that's obviously not "love". And Astarion too. Although his scene wasn't done yet, so it's hard to say how it really played out, but it seemed very much a path to something more. It was the "first night of passion that leads to something more"

In my multiplayer play through it seemed some of the characters were willing, but we let them down.


To me it all comes down to the camp dialogue feeling both bugged and half done. Gale ends up with no options after a while, which is okay, but Shadowheart keeps all of hers, so you have the same conversation over and over.

It's not the romance that feels wrong, but I don't feel a sense of growing closer to the characters. Shadowheart responds differently when you decipher her god, which is cool, but she's still the snarky *itch towards you even when she considers you a friend.
I'd love to see this be improved during EA.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
Cleric of Innuendo
Offline
Cleric of Innuendo
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
Agreed.

I'm happy with Shadowheart (aka the Black Widow) to be snarky, to be treated as a disposable sex toy by Astarion and to be looked at as some sort of pond scum by Lae'zel. That's what they are like and it shows that they have their own minds and characters (that, in the RP side, have existed long before I came along).

What I hope is that the Romance paths (not the horizontal jogging, that's not romance) see a more significant change in this behaviour. We see some evidence for that in this first Act, but my hope is that, by the end, you will be viewed by your chosen Companion as an actual friend. That would be a worthy Romance path to my mind.

Last edited by Sadurian; 22/10/20 09:43 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Sadurian
Correct, it is not Romance.

The developers could hardly market it as 'One-night stand screwing' though.

Good thing Larian making RPG, and not dating sim...

Joined: Jul 2019
member
Offline
member
Joined: Jul 2019
Originally Posted by lanceromancer
Yes, I definitely got weird vibes from the writing on this. Felt like I was part of some weird, polyamorous, bisexual sex cult. Also doesn't help that the characters are rather snotty and unlikable.

If there's no South Park style blood orgies, then Larian are prudes.

Seriously though, the whole handling was weird. I'm hoping it's because they were just trying to throw it in for EA, but final release will have a lot more buildup and won't have the sex cult vibe.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Blade238
Originally Posted by lanceromancer
Yes, I definitely got weird vibes from the writing on this. Felt like I was part of some weird, polyamorous, bisexual sex cult. Also doesn't help that the characters are rather snotty and unlikable.

If there's no South Park style blood orgies, then Larian are prudes.

Seriously though, the whole handling was weird. I'm hoping it's because they were just trying to throw it in for EA, but final release will have a lot more buildup and won't have the sex cult vibe.


It's probably the whole "showcasing the evil options" stuff... than again, what does that tell us about Larian, if they consider this "evil"? xD

...also, we already go to the Underdark, so if it's blood orgies you want, just throw in a Lloth temple!

Joined: Oct 2020
A
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
A
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Sadurian
Agreed.

I'm happy with Shadowheart (aka the Black Widow) to be snarky, to be treated as a disposable sex toy by Astarion and to be looked at as some sort of pond scum by Lae'zel. That's what they are like and it shows that they have their own minds and characters (that, in the RP side, have existed long before I came along).

What I hope is that the Romance paths (not the horizontal jogging, that's not romance) see a more significant change in this behaviour. We see some evidence for that in this first Act, but my hope is that, by the end, you will be viewed by your chosen Companion as an actual friend. That would be a worthy Romance path to my mind.


With Shadowheart I do get a sense of that brewing, especially when you accept her religion, she does warm up a bit. But I wish we could see it reflected in other dialogue too.

Joined: Oct 2020
S
sinogy Offline OP
member
OP Offline
member
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by lanceromancer
Yes, I definitely got weird vibes from the writing on this. Felt like I was part of some weird, polyamorous, bisexual sex cult. Also doesn't help that the characters are rather snotty and unlikable.


Exactly this.

Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Quebec
B
addict
Offline
addict
B
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Quebec
+1 to OP. Just blatant fact.

I took issue with two major quirks :

a) They all try to hook-up for sex no matter the lack of any attempt to figure the main character's sexual orientation or interest. See suggestions below.
Their sudden suggestions for sex appears out of the blue (no preceding dialogue hints leading to it).
Laezel was notably whacky : nothing remotely hinted towards an interest beforehand.

b) When you hook-up with one companion, the others all react like something was hurt and they are not subtle at all. It does not make sense.

And, like OP said here, they almost all seem to just want a fling rather than something more. Shadowheart is more subtle in the current version (though my lady Drow went for Astarion).

SUGGESTIONS :
- prior dialogue lines that "subtly" let's the player state his/her sexual orientation (men/women/bi)
- prior teasing or flirting should determine if a companion will express any form of jealousy or frustration during the party. Without it, the companion remains neutral on that level.

EDIT :
- The UI states my companions are Neutral in Approval (gee, imagine *if* they liked my character, oof!).
- I am clearly not against romance nor sex : no judgement here.

Last edited by Baraz; 23/10/20 04:56 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Baraz
+1 to OP. Just blatant fact.

I took issue with two major quirks :

a) They all try to hook-up for sex no matter the lack of any attempt to figure the main character's sexual orientation or interest. See suggestions below.
Their sudden suggestions for sex appears out of the blue (no preceding dialogue hints leading to it).
Laezel was notably whacky : nothing remotely hinted towards an interest beforehand.

b) When you hook-up with one companion, the others all react like something was hurt and they are not subtle at all. It does not make sense.

And, like OP said here, they almost all seem to just want a fling rather than something more. Shadowheart is more subtle in the current version (though my lady Drow went for Astarion).

SUGGESTION :
- prior dialogue lines that "subtly" let's the player state his/her sexual orientation (men/women/bi)
- prior teasing or flirting should determine if a companion will express any form of jealousy or frustration during the party. Without it, the companion remains neutral on that level.


[Linked Image]

Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11

Moderated by  Nicou 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5