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It's as cringey as it has always been. And the people that put too much thought into this should reevaluate their life priorities.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 23/10/20 05:54 AM.
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Some super judgy people in this thread. What's wrong with some fantasy fulfillment. Isn't that the point to video games... especially... fantasy ones...? I have a super happy marriage and almost exclusively play games that feature romance options. It's just what I like. Some people love guns and shooting and fps games are great for them. I don't but different strokes for different folks.

That said, I think the romances as of Act one could use some improvements but I don't think they're inherently bad or unrealistic. Some are easy, some are not. I think it would be more immersive if, during the party, only characters you've already expressed interest in should ask you for quality time. Having a few flirtatious options in earlier conversations should establish this. This way, people who don't want to participate in the romance element can ignore it altogether or people who only want to flirt with a specific gender can control their experience. Plus, having flirt options beforehand would make things feel more immersive. I also 100% think there should be a follow-up conversation to the camp scene. It's kind of strange that there isn't anything of the sort currently.

I don't have any problems with the pc's facial expressions. I think my tiefling is pretty cute but I don't know how those facial expressions translate to the male characters.

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There we go again - and up till now we were missing these kind of "get a life" replies that so often tend to overflow the topic of romance in games.

Because writing expertises on DnD rules clearly shows your superior life priorities right?
And TYVM my life priorities are quite sorted I only have a bit too much time on my hands having just undergone major surgery being stuck in my bed for a few more weeks.

A story based RPG focusing on companion interaction is actually quite unrealistic without even a hint of romance if you ask me, because well if my time in national sports team taught me anything - if a certain number of mixed gender people go somewhere for more than N days, somebody's gonna bang.

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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
It's as cringey as it has always been. And the people that put too much thought into this should reevaluate their life priorities.


I think you are doing a bit of a projection buddy, most people seem to just have a problem with it on a narrative level. Like any nerd debates on a show or book.
But anyway since you are so edgy and cool and let me communicate it to you through a meme.

[Linked Image]



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As I already said, I don't have a problem with romances in story driven games in general, I do have a problem with how badly and tropy they are presented these days, however... especially when it comes to games with custom protagonists, because they also have to be written in a one-size-fits-all way in those. Couple that with the delicate timing of non linear storytelling, end the end product is usually bad... very bad... like penny romance novel bad.

Last edited by WarBaby2; 23/10/20 06:44 AM.
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Originally Posted by WarBaby2
As I already said, I don't have a problem with romances in story driven games in general, I do have a problem with how badly and tropy they are presented these days, however... especially when it comes to games with custom protagonists, because they also have to be written in a one-size-fits-all way in those. Couple that with the delicate timing of non linear storytelling, end the end product is usually bad... very bad... like penny romance novel bad.


Its actually quite cringey.

It adheres to the juvenile fantasies of "If I am strong everyone would like me sexually", At least this time Larian did not only apply to this to just the female NPCs but males as well. Equality I guess but still pretty bad.
I would argue though that this is just EA shenanigans but... they had voice actors do these lines. So I hope to lords above its not in the final version.

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Originally Posted by Azarielle
There we go again - and up till now we were missing these kind of "get a life" replies that so often tend to overflow the topic of romance in games.

Because writing expertises on DnD rules clearly shows your superior life priorities right?
And TYVM my life priorities are quite sorted I only have a bit too much time on my hands having just undergone major surgery being stuck in my bed for a few more weeks.

A story based RPG focusing on companion interaction is actually quite unrealistic without even a hint of romance if you ask me, because well if my time in national sports team taught me anything - if a certain number of mixed gender people go somewhere for more than N days, somebody's gonna bang.



Agreed, but you don't need an excuse--whether you have loads of time or very little time. Your time is yours and you should invest it however you like. Lots of people like these elements in games--otherwise they wouldn't have become a staple of modern rpgs.

Originally Posted by WarBaby2
As I already said, I don't have a problem with romances in story driven games in general, I do have a problem with how badly and tropy they are presented these days, however... especially when it comes to games with custom protagonists, because they also have to be written in a one-size-fits-all way in those. Couple that with the delicate timing of non linear storytelling, end the end product is usually bad... very bad... like penny romance novel bad.


If anything I've observed the opposite--games are presenting more interesting and dynamic romances. Have you read a trashy romance novel? Because none of these come close to those. Even with how clumsy the romances are handled currently (and it's really only because of the suddenness of the camp scene), they aren't anything like what you get in a bodice ripper. I think the romances in this game will get better/more interesting and we haven't seen enough with them to really pass the kind of judgement you've already passed.

I'm curious what romances you're referencing, specifically though, that are so badly written and trope heavy.

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Originally Posted by Eddiar
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
As I already said, I don't have a problem with romances in story driven games in general, I do have a problem with how badly and tropy they are presented these days, however... especially when it comes to games with custom protagonists, because they also have to be written in a one-size-fits-all way in those. Couple that with the delicate timing of non linear storytelling, end the end product is usually bad... very bad... like penny romance novel bad.


Its actually quite cringey.

It adheres to the juvenile fantasies of "If I am strong everyone would like me sexually", At least this time Larian did not only apply to this to just the female NPCs but males as well. Equality I guess but still pretty bad.
I would argue though that this is just EA shenanigans but... they had voice actors do these lines. So I hope to lords above its not in the final version.


Oh, I'm pretty sure it is... maybe not like that/at this point in the story, but still. Moreover, they even did a "behind the scenes" about their voice acting and motion capture that featured some romance stuff, so they seam to be mighty proud of it too.

@pinklily: Hm, the Nameless One, Annah and Deionarra in Planecape Torment come to mind... Geralt, Yennefer and Triss (Witcher 1-3), obviously... Tidus and Yuna in FFX, but that one had it's cringe parts too, I guess... there aren't too many actually good ones, to be honest. I especially came to dislike the "BioWare" style of "romance" around Dragon Age 2... and BG3 seams tto fit that same level of "tone deaf free for all" right now.

Last edited by WarBaby2; 23/10/20 07:21 AM.
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Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by Eddiar
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
As I already said, I don't have a problem with romances in story driven games in general, I do have a problem with how badly and tropy they are presented these days, however... especially when it comes to games with custom protagonists, because they also have to be written in a one-size-fits-all way in those. Couple that with the delicate timing of non linear storytelling, end the end product is usually bad... very bad... like penny romance novel bad.


Its actually quite cringey.

It adheres to the juvenile fantasies of "If I am strong everyone would like me sexually", At least this time Larian did not only apply to this to just the female NPCs but males as well. Equality I guess but still pretty bad.
I would argue though that this is just EA shenanigans but... they had voice actors do these lines. So I hope to lords above its not in the final version.


Oh, I'm pretty sure it is... maybe not like that/at this point in the story, but still. Moreover, they even did a "behind the scenes" about their voice acting and motion capture that featured some romance stuff, so they seam to be mighty proud of it too.


Well in this day and age. You absolutely need mocap to tell any sort of story for an RPG and Story driven games. Otherwise you end up with games like Assassins Creed where the facial expressions and talk animations are constantly recycled and any emotional scene is laughably bad.

The problem so far though it seems things move WAY too quick and there is not enough interaction beforehand.

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I find none of the current NPC's personalities believable or appealing. The one that at least tries to play in char all the time is the Vampire and maybe the Gith and that's not saying much. I only carry them because i try to do good class synergy in a game that doesn't really care about it despite being marketed as D&D lol. Gale trying to play Mr. Goody Two Shoes, CMON. I roll my eyes every time i see his background info.

I think most of you are just desperate/lonely and love bad or cheesy writing.

No one that has ever read a good novel would find this good.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 23/10/20 07:24 AM.
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Originally Posted by Baraz
+1 to OP. Just blatant fact.

I took issue with two major quirks :

a) They all try to hook-up for sex no matter the lack of any attempt to figure the main character's sexual orientation or interest. See suggestions below.
Their sudden suggestions for sex appears out of the blue (no preceding dialogue hints leading to it).
Laezel was notably whacky : nothing remotely hinted towards an interest beforehand.

b) When you hook-up with one companion, the others all react like something was hurt and they are not subtle at all. It does not make sense.

And, like OP said here, they almost all seem to just want a fling rather than something more. Shadowheart is more subtle in the current version (though my lady Drow went for Astarion).

SUGGESTION :
- prior dialogue lines that "subtly" let's the player state his/her sexual orientation (men/women/bi)
- prior teasing or flirting should determine if a companion will express any form of jealousy or frustration during the party. Without it, the companion remains neutral on that level.

I'm not inclined to run around saying "Hey, are you straight? Wanna hook up?". Of course, for my generation, asking a woman out on a date wasn't considered assault. I have actually asked a lesbian out on a date, and she politely told me that wasn't into men, but thanks anyway. Ironically, even asking "hey, are you into x" today can find you on the receiving end of a criminal complaint, because reasons? You see, once upon a time, if someone took an interest in someone else, they didn't have to have their lawyer talk to their lawyer to obtain a 57 page permission slip to ask them out. So when I see things like this in camp, it's just another day at the beach, instead of "Help, call the police, I've been assaulted".

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Hey I was referred to try and post this here smile I will catch up with the rest of this thread :P

My 1st post here! hello!

I'm new to BG just fyi lol and this is based on my 1st playthrough.

I'm loving the companions! They each have their complex background and motives.

I loved the party banter in DAI, and I love that this is in BG3, makes traveling with your party feel more real, having them add something when chatting to an NPC is always interesting as well. So please keep on working/adding to this as much as you are able to smile

Romance: I'm a good dude trying to help out whoever I can, and Gale loves this about me, and I love that we are going to get along and be best buds! I love that! but I was hoping Shadowheart would be like that too because she's bomb lol. Anyway I'm not entirely happy with the romance because she is very closed, and I do enjoy the chase and trying to "woo" and have her see the light, but I had a much easier time playing an evil character because she was more impressed! lol

Since I found it difficult to get to know her, I found it odd that she would sleep with me at the celebration party, even though I get its meant to be a drunk fling. However during the whole journey there is no mention of it, during NPC convos she doesn't defend or show any affection. I'm just saying its kinda lacking, and please forgive me if you find it annoying, but I love Dragon Age's way of doing these things. I don't want to make this long, but how about for once, maybe one character, its love at 1st sight? and you get married or move in together and grow on the journey together? lol

Just my initial thoughts for some options, I am really enjoying the game, and I know there is more to explore with the relationships as we go after EA. So if you read this thank you!

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Wow! I thought I was the only one!

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The Tiefling party is clearly very unfinished graphically and soundwise (lack of background merriment, singing, etc...).

Im therefore hopeful the conversations are too.

I mean I let Astarion feed on me and he is a vampire, so sure, I get him thinking I might be fun. But Wyll and Gale come across as a little weird and jealous if I choose someone else with zero prior conversation. Yeah in both cases they revealed their history to me, but there was no flirtation or sounding out potential attraction or preferences.

Now even that could be circumvented with a little story telling. Maybe the virile connection is there due to the tadpoles? Have someone talk to us near the beginning of the party (like an overt Astarion if he still likes you for example), and yeah flirt if that’s their thing but instead of just acting all rejected, be a friend, ask who I might fancy?

I think someone suggested wingman as an idea further back in the thread, and this concept could be used for the game to get a feel for how I like relationships.

Do I just want to sleep around and leave my options open? Am I focused on 1 party member, or am I a take it slow kinda person? Maybe I just want everyone to leave me be because I actually had someone before being abducted (or didn’t and it’s just an excuse to be left alone).

Either way I have to admit the current everyone acting like a scorned teenager just because I told character x I would see them later is odd. Does no one simply want to pat me on the back and have a drink? It’s a party!! Besides how do they even know? (Why does everyone care?!)

I’m obviously happy to put most of the above to EA, but should Larian be reading, then whilst I love options, this particular scene definitely needs some more subtlety and variation and fun!

Heck, it might be fun if I choose Shadowheart for example if someone wants to fight me for her (if not a character how about a tiefling lol)

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I have no real problems with the one night stand, my problem is that yes agreed after that night it feels like it never happened. My romance never brings it up, there's no mention of it. In a realistic relationship you are thinking about each other every damn minute lol

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Agreed, its just to bring it up, we want the best of this game! smile

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Originally Posted by WarBaby2
As I already said, I don't have a problem with romances in story driven games in general, I do have a problem with how badly and tropy they are presented these days, however... especially when it comes to games with custom protagonists, because they also have to be written in a one-size-fits-all way in those. Couple that with the delicate timing of non linear storytelling, end the end product is usually bad... very bad... like penny romance novel bad.

Uh oh, people are gonna talk, but I don't disagree here. However, per our dialog elsewhere, I'm not convinced I can lay this solely at Larian's feet. Yeah, they did similar in DOS 2, but, they're gamers, making games, and I'd be willing to bet, they read gaming forums too.

Flashback to Dragon Age Origins, and the BSN's reaction to not being able to bang Alistair with a gay protagonist. There was, surprisingly, less uproar about Morrigan with lesbians, but there was some. Fast Forward to DA 2, with "player sexual" companions, and once again, the forums burnt down, because all the options that were on the table were on the table, no matter who Hawke was. See the pattern? Care to guess how it went in Inquisition, where they reverted to Origins for the LIs? If you guessed grab a fire extinguisher and some popcorn, you'd be absolutely correct. Guess what happened in ME Andromeda, some of the characters suddenly officially became bi, and mods took care of the rest. At any rate, this is a no win scenario. Obsidian caught flak for no romance in Outer Worlds, and BioWare caught tons of flak for not being inclusive enough, and too inclusive. It's a classic Catch 22, damned if you, damned if you don't situation, so they chose to err on the side of "inclusivity", and even the people that might be running around with signs during the day screaming "we need inclusivity" aren't happy, because someone didn't submit a resume before having the audacity to flirt, or be hurt because the PC chose someone else, or did something that they don't approve of.

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Originally Posted by sinogy
[quote=Mister Monster]Keep in mind that this is only the first act: these are the opening motions of will -become- a romance later on in the game!

Do you really think it is not immersion breaker than go on have fun playing this game. I am happy for you.


Agreed, its best to bring this up now, Larian said they listen, because if they don't get this right, its just going to feel like DOS again.

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
As I already said, I don't have a problem with romances in story driven games in general, I do have a problem with how badly and tropy they are presented these days, however... especially when it comes to games with custom protagonists, because they also have to be written in a one-size-fits-all way in those. Couple that with the delicate timing of non linear storytelling, end the end product is usually bad... very bad... like penny romance novel bad.

Uh oh, people are gonna talk, but I don't disagree here. However, per our dialog elsewhere, I'm not convinced I can lay this solely at Larian's feet. Yeah, they did similar in DOS 2, but, they're gamers, making games, and I'd be willing to bet, they read gaming forums too.

Flashback to Dragon Age Origins, and the BSN's reaction to not being able to bang Alistair with a gay protagonist. There was, surprisingly, less uproar about Morrigan with lesbians, but there was some. Fast Forward to DA 2, with "player sexual" companions, and once again, the forums burnt down, because all the options that were on the table were on the table, no matter who Hawke was. See the pattern? Care to guess how it went in Inquisition, where they reverted to Origins for the LIs? If you guessed grab a fire extinguisher and some popcorn, you'd be absolutely correct. Guess what happened in ME Andromeda, some of the characters suddenly officially became bi, and mods took care of the rest. At any rate, this is a no win scenario. Obsidian caught flak for no romance in Outer Worlds, and BioWare caught tons of flak for not being inclusive enough, and too inclusive. It's a classic Catch 22, damned if you, damned if you don't situation, so they chose to err on the side of "inclusivity", and even the people that might be running around with signs during the day screaming "we need inclusivity" aren't happy, because someone didn't submit a resume before having the audacity to flirt, or be hurt because the PC chose someone else, or did something that they don't approve of.


Yea, well, it would be a cach 22 if not adhering to "the mob" would actually hurt gaming companies, which it generally doesn't if they stick to their guns (aka artisic integrity) from the start, and ignore what (certain) games media and (certain) vocal minorities say, and neither does it actually benefit them when they do... but that's something - especially US - games companies have yet to learn.

Until then, I guess we'll have to life with "the cringe"... wink

Last edited by WarBaby2; 23/10/20 07:46 AM.
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Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
As I already said, I don't have a problem with romances in story driven games in general, I do have a problem with how badly and tropy they are presented these days, however... especially when it comes to games with custom protagonists, because they also have to be written in a one-size-fits-all way in those. Couple that with the delicate timing of non linear storytelling, end the end product is usually bad... very bad... like penny romance novel bad.

Uh oh, people are gonna talk, but I don't disagree here. However, per our dialog elsewhere, I'm not convinced I can lay this solely at Larian's feet. Yeah, they did similar in DOS 2, but, they're gamers, making games, and I'd be willing to bet, they read gaming forums too.

Flashback to Dragon Age Origins, and the BSN's reaction to not being able to bang Alistair with a gay protagonist. There was, surprisingly, less uproar about Morrigan with lesbians, but there was some. Fast Forward to DA 2, with "player sexual" companions, and once again, the forums burnt down, because all the options that were on the table were on the table, no matter who Hawke was. See the pattern? Care to guess how it went in Inquisition, where they reverted to Origins for the LIs? If you guessed grab a fire extinguisher and some popcorn, you'd be absolutely correct. Guess what happened in ME Andromeda, some of the characters suddenly officially became bi, and mods took care of the rest. At any rate, this is a no win scenario. Obsidian caught flak for no romance in Outer Worlds, and BioWare caught tons of flak for not being inclusive enough, and too inclusive. It's a classic Catch 22, damned if you, damned if you don't situation, so they chose to err on the side of "inclusivity", and even the people that might be running around with signs during the day screaming "we need inclusivity" aren't happy, because someone didn't submit a resume before having the audacity to flirt, or be hurt because the PC chose someone else, or did something that they don't approve of.


Yea, well, it would be a cach 22 if not adhering to "the mob" would actually hurt gaming companies, which it generally doesn't if they stick to their guns (aka artisic integrity) from the start, and ignore what (certain) games media and (certain) vocal minorities say, and neither does it actually benefit them when they do... but that's something - especially US - games companies have yet to learn.

Until then, I guess we'll have to life with "the cringe"... wink


I find it funny (at least for now as it may end up with creative dumpster) personally as those most vocal groups not only most times are more despotic than anyone else, they contradict themselves and the best part the don't care about stuff like games and comics at all. Which some project and companies learnt hard way when they went with following this non sense.

I mean, I can get over that everyone likes and sleeps with everyone in game/story. But calling it anything other than the mob pleasing treatment is just non sense. It hurts writing, overall story and just limits characters. Best supporting examples for this would be games from Japan or like Eastern EU where they just don't bother about things like it at all.

Also imagine game in 2020 with white male character that hates or even is just afraid all women in general. Even with perfectly justified backstory like his mother beating and tormenting since childhood or just him having Gynophobia.

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