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Sludge, even though its a more volatile environment and you're going to be a whipping boy...https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/ might pump those response numbers up now that youve dialed in the survey a bit more. If youre worried about integrity it might be interesting to duplicate the survey and have a different host address and have a Larian, Reddit, Steam version to compare to by source and do a cross-sectional comparison.

Thanks for changing to Gdrive I forgot to respond lol, the hentai ads must have mind-wiped me, that was gonna be my suggestion. With Google Docs you can link a variety of things together in that space.

Also like to shout out to everyone who played Planescape: Torment. I ran my best D&D one-shot to date by lifting from it and introducing a new group of players to Sigil. If you haven't played it, yes its ungodly old, but the writing is great and you will learn a lot of cool lore. and if you just be patient, take the time, and zen clear your mind and accept the game as current, youll start to get a kick out of it. The new planescape is cool and has a great hook, but I think the first ones was better - you wake up, undead/was dead/still dead?, in a morgue, no memory, covered in tattoos you don't understand, in one of the craziest places youll ever see - Sigil.


What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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WoW didn't kill MMO's it killed the competition because it was leagues ahead of everything that came before it or after it in every single way. Vanilla to WotLK pushed boundaries and blizzard made the very sound decision to hire elite players from end game guilds that proved they understood the mechanics better than the rest of the community and even most developers. You can put a nail in Blizzards acquisition by Activision in 2008 and as well as more Jay Wilson from D3 after the trainwreck he created to WoW development and you will notice that everything began to go downhill from there. WoW died because of the appeal to accessibility and homogenization and if you look at a graph of the player base you will notice that these trends align with the previous two events.

As far as Skyrim is concerned not only did it ride on the coattails of the jump in tech and player base but it is also saved by it's modding community. It did fix many issues the community had with the older games while remaining adherent to it's source and lore but it is also an ARPG and not an RPG. WoW was focused on RPG mechanics and a better comparison would be with TES Online which died when it started to screw with the lore and source material as well as suboptimal mechanics due to accessibility and optimization.


I am here to discuss a video game. Please do not try to rope me into anything other than that. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by Orbax
Sludge, even though its a more volatile environment and you're going to be a whipping boy...https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/ might pump those response numbers up now that youve dialed in the survey a bit more. If youre worried about integrity it might be interesting to duplicate the survey and have a different host address and have a Larian, Reddit, Steam version to compare to by source and do a cross-sectional comparison.

Thanks for changing to Gdrive I forgot to respond lol, the hentai ads must have mind-wiped me, that was gonna be my suggestion. With Google Docs you can link a variety of things together in that space.

Also like to shout out to everyone who played Planescape: Torment. I ran my best D&D one-shot to date by lifting from it and introducing a new group of players to Sigil. If you haven't played it, yes its ungodly old, but the writing is great and you will learn a lot of cool lore. and if you just be patient, take the time, and zen clear your mind and accept the game as current, youll start to get a kick out of it. The new planescape is cool and has a great hook, but I think the first ones was better - you wake up, undead/was dead/still dead?, in a morgue, no memory, covered in tattoos you don't understand, in one of the craziest places youll ever see - Sigil.


Ive thought several times in launching that survey in Reddit. I can definitely make a copy of it and post it there and probably I’ll receive so much downvotes for it that I’ll never make it to the top but I’ll give it a try.
I’m afraid the questions will be too technical to the average Reddit user? Maybe I should try to restructure the questions to be more detailed without losing the essence.
I’ve used to post it there my rational thinking, but instead of counter argumentation I’ve received many strikes. Do you realize that you are throwing me in a cage full of lions? :p

Hell yeah! Let’s go!!



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Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
Sludge, even though its a more volatile environment and you're going to be a whipping boy...https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/ might pump those response numbers up now that youve dialed in the survey a bit more. If youre worried about integrity it might be interesting to duplicate the survey and have a different host address and have a Larian, Reddit, Steam version to compare to by source and do a cross-sectional comparison.

Thanks for changing to Gdrive I forgot to respond lol, the hentai ads must have mind-wiped me, that was gonna be my suggestion. With Google Docs you can link a variety of things together in that space.

Also like to shout out to everyone who played Planescape: Torment. I ran my best D&D one-shot to date by lifting from it and introducing a new group of players to Sigil. If you haven't played it, yes its ungodly old, but the writing is great and you will learn a lot of cool lore. and if you just be patient, take the time, and zen clear your mind and accept the game as current, youll start to get a kick out of it. The new planescape is cool and has a great hook, but I think the first ones was better - you wake up, undead/was dead/still dead?, in a morgue, no memory, covered in tattoos you don't understand, in one of the craziest places youll ever see - Sigil.


Ive thought several times in launching that survey in Reddit. I can definitely make a copy of it and post it there and probably I’ll receive so much downvotes for it that I’ll never make it to the top but I’ll give it a try.
I’m afraid the questions will be too technical to the average Reddit user? Maybe I should try to restructure the questions to be more detailed without losing the essence.
I’ve used to post it there my rational thinking, but instead of counter argumentation I’ve received many strikes. Do you realize that you are throwing me in a cage full of lions? :p

Hell yeah! Let’s go!!




Haha, gamble and make a new user? Risk missing out on 5k karma but protect against -1k karma?

Ive read the sub, theres enough people to understand it I think. Even with confusion on some of the more nuanced questions, the big ones are clear and would be really interesting to see!


What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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One of the interesting things in the results is that despite what you might read on the forums, most people are happy with the rules implementation and would recommend the game. There are things that people take issue with, but it doesn't affect their overall enjoyment of the game.

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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Argonaut, true but wow also killed the mmo genre. Before wow, we had ultima online and dark sun online crimson sands, games which are true RPG's. Now, mmos are all about farming gear and managing cooldowns. Extremely boring.


What is funny for being extremely boring a lot more people have decided that is what they want to play. So it's all opinions and some are popular and some are not.

True RPG imo that is hyperbole. They are just different from one another.

Last edited by Horrorscope; 25/10/20 03:53 PM.
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Originally Posted by Dulany67
One of the interesting things in the results is that despite what you might read on the forums, most people are happy with the rules implementation and would recommend the game. There are things that people take issue with, but it doesn't affect their overall enjoyment of the game.


Dulany, we share the same conclusions about the results in our forum.

At the same time there are many complaints about the game, it doesn't make it bad.
All the criticism that I found in this very forum are coming from people that simply want to make it a better game and to thrive.

Given the overall scenario, I’d say that currently we’re at a 6/10. It could be way better, still it is above the average.

I really liked DOS1. Simply hated DOS2. Wish to BG3 to be the best game of the decade.

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Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Dulany67
One of the interesting things in the results is that despite what you might read on the forums, most people are happy with the rules implementation and would recommend the game. There are things that people take issue with, but it doesn't affect their overall enjoyment of the game.


Dulany, we share the same conclusions about the results in our forum.

At the same time there are many complaints about the game, it doesn't make it bad.
All the criticism that I found in this very forum are coming from people that simply want to make it a better game and to thrive.

Given the overall scenario, I’d say that currently we’re at a 6/10. It could be way better, still it is above the average.

I really liked DOS1. Simply hated DOS2. Wish to BG3 to be the best game of the decade.


Yes, if you look at my posting history, you would think I hate BG3. I LOVE it, I just want it to be even better! I have 140 hours played, no way I would be doing that for a game I hated.

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Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Argonaut, true but wow also killed the mmo genre. Before wow, we had ultima online and dark sun online crimson sands, games which are true RPG's. Now, mmos are all about farming gear and managing cooldowns. Extremely boring.


What is funny for being extremely boring a lot more people have decided that is what they want to play. So it's all opinions and some are popular and some are not.

True RPG imo that is hyperbole. They are just different from one another.


Wrong. The mostp popular RPG's of the last decade, dark souls and skyrim din't had cooldowns or a endless gear farming focus. On CRPG's, Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous got more money on kickstarter than dos2. And I know a lot of people who HATED dos2 itemization, armor and cooldown mechanics who are hyped for BG3.

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wow, 30% people like this character chaining, i knew some will like it, but i didn't expect that many tho

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Originally Posted by Zefhyr
I'm really surprised by the percent of people who doens't watn RTwP.
Not because I'm stubborn.
But I just can't understand what is fun in a long fight consisting of "wait-hit-waiiiiiit-hit-waiiit-hit".
The fight against all the goblins made up my mind.
I mean, it's just the beginning, we're going to encounter ennemies, and sometimes lot of them, and sometimes lot of weaklings.
So please, someone have to tell me WHEN I will enjoy a loooooong and uninteresting turn-based fight againts tons of weaklings.

The point is RTwP is not antagonist with turn-based, it's, from my point of view, more like a complement, at least.

I enjoyed playing turn-base hard and intense fights. But really, this pointless fights during 10, 15, 20 minutes ? I can't get it and this is why I can't get how people can prefer turn-based over RTwP knowing RTwP is IN FACT turn-based !

In fact, in RTwP it's still about round and so you can have auto-pause each round, so RTwP is not being against turn-based fight, it's about being for more fluid battle and more freedom in the management of them.
I mean seriously, explain me where is the "strategy" and the "need" of turn-base fight when all you did during the fight is... hit and/or casting basic spells...

But I guess people like to suffer some boring fights or just waste time over it.

Not me and not what I like in videogames, especially this one.




You say its not because you are stubborn, but is it really?

The rules are written with a turn based game in mind. A round is 6 seconds so what would it add vs what it would take away? For fighters for example they would have a 6 second cooldown between attacks before they get multi attack. Wizards and other casters wouldnt be able to cast spells and move away to keep enemies out of melee range. Pretty much everything that was a.reaction would be tossed out of the window.

I could go on but I think my point is clear. Making it rtwp would introduce problems that turn based simply doesent have.

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Originally Posted by Demoulius
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
I'm really surprised by the percent of people who doens't watn RTwP.
Not because I'm stubborn.
But I just can't understand what is fun in a long fight consisting of "wait-hit-waiiiiiit-hit-waiiit-hit".
The fight against all the goblins made up my mind.
I mean, it's just the beginning, we're going to encounter ennemies, and sometimes lot of them, and sometimes lot of weaklings.
So please, someone have to tell me WHEN I will enjoy a loooooong and uninteresting turn-based fight againts tons of weaklings.

The point is RTwP is not antagonist with turn-based, it's, from my point of view, more like a complement, at least.

I enjoyed playing turn-base hard and intense fights. But really, this pointless fights during 10, 15, 20 minutes ? I can't get it and this is why I can't get how people can prefer turn-based over RTwP knowing RTwP is IN FACT turn-based !

In fact, in RTwP it's still about round and so you can have auto-pause each round, so RTwP is not being against turn-based fight, it's about being for more fluid battle and more freedom in the management of them.
I mean seriously, explain me where is the "strategy" and the "need" of turn-base fight when all you did during the fight is... hit and/or casting basic spells...

But I guess people like to suffer some boring fights or just waste time over it.

Not me and not what I like in videogames, especially this one.




You say its not because you are stubborn, but is it really?

The rules are written with a turn based game in mind. A round is 6 seconds so what would it add vs what it would take away? For fighters for example they would have a 6 second cooldown between attacks before they get multi attack. Wizards and other casters wouldnt be able to cast spells and move away to keep enemies out of melee range. Pretty much everything that was a.reaction would be tossed out of the window.

I could go on but I think my point is clear. Making it rtwp would introduce problems that turn based simply doesent have.

Soloing last boss of Divinity Original Sin 2 with the cat - 1 turn kill
Turn based has no problems(tm)
Talk is cheap. Here is evidence that turn based is worse and creates more problems. The problems you mention where already addressed and fixed in 20 year old games FYI.


Last edited by Argonaut; 25/10/20 07:15 PM.

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Demoulius.

No , really, I don't think I'm stubborn.
And I don't get the point of what you're explaining cause, again, BG 1 and 2 was kind of turn-based... It was round per round and all the things you said to be impossible was... possible obviously.
So it looks like you didn't read closely what I wrote (cause I already said RTwP is kind of urn-based, indeed you could in the option active an automatic pause each round so.... yeah turn-based mod activated), you explain something which, for my comprehension, is wrong. So your point is far from clear.

More, you didn't answer the question I asked.

To resume, you didn't answer my question (who was honest), you explain something I must have so misunderstood that it seems wrong and you doubt my openmindedness.
From my point of view, I'm a openminded guy who woul like to have a compromise about turn-based and RTwP and I feel with you as if I was facing a pretty stubborn turn-based fan making points by kind of authority argument, not minding to answer my actual question.


I hope my point is clear and don't hesitate to answer my question about the fun in the long and meaningless fights (I insist on this point).


PS: it's funny to say "Making it rtwp would introduce problems that turn based simply doesent have" when RTwP is actually turn-based and the precedent game was RTwP.

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The problem with this survey is that the majority who participated in it knows D&D 5e, which is the opposite of the actual player base. Therefore, I suggest to separate statistics for: newbies to D&D 5e, D&D 5e adepts, and D&D 5e zealots (people who answered that they want D&D 5e without any or with minimal home rules (scores 8 or higher) in BG3).

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Something you should also look at as you cite other games for their mastery of the craft is copies sold.

Dragon Age - 3.2 million
BG 2 - 2 million
Pathfinder Kingmaker - 1.2 million
DOS2 - 1 million
Icewind Dale - 1 million
POE 2 - 700,000
Pillars of eternity 1 - 500,000
Baldurs gate 1 - 500,000
Planescape: Torment - 400,000
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 250,000
Wasteland - 250,000
Icewind Dale - 150,000

Last edited by Orbax; 25/10/20 10:10 PM.

What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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Originally Posted by Maerd
The problem with this survey is that the majority who participated in it knows D&D 5e, which is the opposite of the actual player base. Therefore, I suggest to separate statistics for: newbies to D&D 5e, D&D 5e adepts, and D&D 5e zealots (people who answered that they want D&D 5e without any or with minimal home rules (scores 8 or higher) in BG3).

OP has somewhat already done this
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Here's the average comparing the results of people who are familiar with DnD5e (YES) vs (NO)

https://imgur.com/KAcSU4N

But yes OP, if you can include up-to-date versions of this table in the pdf, or even better highlight all the data in the bar graphs/pie charts by people answering yes vs no, that'd be great!

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Originally Posted by Maerd
The problem with this survey is that the majority who participated in it knows D&D 5e, which is the opposite of the actual player base. Therefore, I suggest to separate statistics for: newbies to D&D 5e, D&D 5e adepts, and D&D 5e zealots (people who answered that they want D&D 5e without any or with minimal home rules (scores 8 or higher) in BG3).


Yeah you're going to need to cite some actual evidence for that.

Casual reminder that the *ONLY* reason this game is being made is because Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 were both so popular *AND* had monumentally dedicated communities to a D&D video game that is over 20 years old. The only reason you're playing this game is because people like D&D. If you want to play a game that ignores the rules of 5e, go ahead, pick up DoS 2 or DoS 3 whenever it is made. Larian decided to market the game as a D&D game based on the 5th Edition of the rules, so that should be the expectations for the game.

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Orbax,
10 million for DOS2 ? Are you sure ?
that said, itcan be interesting to compare but it's perillous at the same time. Indeed it's complicated to compare the sales of games edited in many different years. I mean the market wasn't the same 20 years ago obviously.

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Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Orbax,
10 million for DOS2 ? Are you sure ?
that said, itcan be interesting to compare but it's perillous at the same time. Indeed it's complicated to compare the sales of games edited in many different years. I mean the market wasn't the same 20 years ago obviously.


Im not sure, I dont know what the heck I read lol. I fixed it. Its 1 million copies sold - as of november 2017. Im trying to find current numbers

Last edited by Orbax; 25/10/20 10:13 PM.

What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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Hi guys,

Research is online in Reddit as well,
Wish me luck and just a few downvotes



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