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Custom characters are generically referred as “avatar” in the game files. You can see this a lot if you start a game with multiple custom characters. It is just BG3’s version of CHARNAME.

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Originally Posted by Ulla G
One thing the dream sequence person says that got my attention is "agony suits you, suffering less so" and considering the presence of Loviatar it got me thinking, suffering being the domain of both her and Jergal, who is referenced lots as well.

Another thing is that Swen, during the podcast where he mentions the dream NPC, refers to the custom character (player character) as "avatar" briefly, correcting himself right away. Although english is not his first language it didn't escape notice as that is something in the realm of possibilities, either for the player or the dream sequence. Just throwing thoughts here.


Avatar is the name given to playable characters in video games, especially in french (which Swen speak). They are the player's avatar inside the game, it's not some secret plot elements.


Last edited by azarhal; 26/10/20 12:02 PM.
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I suspect it's [something representing] The Dead Three. My theory is as follows:


1. Load screens indicate that the Dead Three are something important, yet we've seen nothing about it.
2. The game ties in [somewhat] to Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Bhaal is part of the Dead Three
3. The name 'Absolute' suggests something that 'covers everything', something combined
4. The forces we encounter have no problem with the portfolio's of the Dead Three
5. We obtain the services of something talkative that serves Jergal and/or Kelemvor. Jergal is also directly responsible for The Dead Three.
6. There are clerics of the Absolute, indicating something [at least remotely] Divine.

Then. I highly, highly suspect all origin stories will tie in to the main plot and all will find an enemy in the Absolute, and perhaps some will find an ally. Yet I doubt ANY of these are the actual Absolute.

And we've already encountered most of the opposing forces.
Avernus [Zariel] - Raphael is introduced as the if-you-fail-at-other-things option. There are quite a number of mentions/depictions of the Bloodwar and [Descent into] Avernus. It's bound to be important.
Demons [Wyll] - He comes with a Demon overlord. One that might have a vested interest in the above mentioned Bloodwar.
Githyanki [Laezal] - Tiamat once held Zariel's position, again, in Avernus, currently allied with the Githyanki.
Sharrans [Shadowheart] Shadowheart directly opposes the Githyanki, they weren't chasing Mindflayers, they were chasing Shadowheart and the... Relic of Holies.
Vampires [Astarion] - His origin will undoubtely be the choice of 'side with Vamps and overtrhow the other evil, or be more evil and overthrow the Vamps'
Selunites [Default Tav] - Also mentioned to be in a war against Sharrans, their stuff is broken everywhere.

This leaves Gale. Personally, I do not believe Gale's story in the slightest, and I suspect him to just be [unknowingly] teleporting magic stuff to someone else. He'd need 2000 years and a pointy hat for me to believe his origin. Or perhaps that is his destiny or something? He's Chosen to go all Catastrophe on the Absolute?



Last edited by rodeolifant; 26/10/20 02:01 PM.

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Originally Posted by rodeolifant
I suspect it's [something representing] The Dead Three. My theory is as follows:


1. Load screens indicate that the Dead Three are something important, yet we've seen nothing about it.
2. The game ties in [somewhat] to Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Bhaal is part of the Dead Three
3. The name 'Absolute' suggests something that 'covers everything', something combined
4. The forces we encounter have no problem with the portfolio's of the Dead Three
5. We obtain the services of something talkative that serves Jergal and/or Kelemvor. Jergal is also directly responsible for The Dead Three.
6. There are clerics of the Absolute, indicating something [at least remotely] Divine.

Then. I highly, highly suspect all origin stories will tie in to the main plot and all will find an enemy in the Absolute, and perhaps some will find an ally. Yet I doubt ANY of these are the actual Absolute.

And we've already encountered most of the opposing forces.
Avernus [Zariel] - Raphael is introduced as the if-you-fail-at-other-things option. There are quite a number of mentions/depictions of the Bloodwar and [Descent into] Avernus. It's bound to be important.
Demons [Wyll] - He comes with a Demon overlord. One that might have a vested interest in the above mentioned Bloodwar.
Githyanki [Laezal] - Tiamat once held Zariel's position, again, in Avernus, currently allied with the Githyanki.
Sharrans [Shadowheart] Shadowheart directly opposes the Githyanki, they weren't chasing Mindflayers, they were chasing Shadowheart and the... Relic of Holies.
Vampires [Astarion] - His origin will undoubtely be the choice of 'side with Vamps and overtrhow the other evil, or be more evil and overthrow the Vamps'
Selunites [Default Tav] - Also mentioned to be in a war against Sharrans, their stuff is broken everywhere.

This leaves Gale. Personally, I do not believe Gale's story in the slightest, and I suspect him to just be [unknowingly] teleporting magic stuff to someone else. He'd need 2000 years and a pointy hat for me to believe his origin. Or perhaps that is his destiny or something? He's Chosen to go all Catastrophe on the Absolute?



The 3 in the game title is based on the 3 floating towers in Avernus that launch imps in the intro cinematic.

Technically, Wyll's patron is just an neutral evil outsider as Succubus aren't demons in 5e anymore, just fiends. She could be working for anyone evil.

Going by Astarion
, the vampires could be allied to Avernus as his master engraved an infernal poem on his back. He also seems to worship Shar.

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Originally Posted by azarhal


The 3 in the game title is based on the 3 floating towers in Avernus that launch imps in the intro cinematic.

Technically, Wyll's patron is just an neutral evil outsider as Succubus aren't demons in 5e anymore, just fiends. She could be working for anyone evil.

Going by Astarion
, the vampires could be allied to Avernus as his master engraved an infernal poem on his back. He also seems to worship Shar.


I hope that
the story is not as such that everyone has a secret divine employer. It would be much more interesting to position the player in a power game between independent actors once you get to Baldur's Gate proper.


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As I said in another thread, Shar being someone calling themselves the Absolute fits her lore. I vaguely even remember in one of the old FR novels Shar referring to herself as "Absolute" or at least as something akin to being "absolute."

I agree the "avatar" reference is probably just terminology for the PC. However, it is possible the PC is a Chosen of some god. Chosens emerged as a prominent theme only in 3e lore and thereafter (so after the original BG games), and a Chosen can be an ordinary person to whom at some point a god gives a part of their divine essence. So the PC may be already selected to be some god's Chosen, but who has not yet received the god's essence (or the essence is currently dormant and the PC doesn't yet realize they have it in them).

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Doesn’t Wyll specifically declare his patron as being a demon?

And yeah, not every origin character needs to be representative of a faction. Since there will be at least 8 characters, having them all represent a faction would get convoluted.

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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Doesn’t Wyll specifically declare his patron as being a demon?

And yeah, not every origin character needs to be representative of a faction. Since there will be at least 8 characters, having them all represent a faction would get convoluted.


Wyll might not be aware that WoTC made a change there. wink

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Originally Posted by azarhal

The 3 in the game title is based on the 3 floating towers in Avernus that launch imps in the intro cinematic.[/spoiler]



I wasn't referring to the logo; that three merely points to being the third in a series. I meant the actual loading screens; they specifically mention and name the Dead Three. You know, in the loading screen tips, "Remember, while your character does not have to eat, remember that you do. We don't want to loose any dedicated players" . There are only a handful of tips about the gameworld, including the war between Shar & Selune, it's already apparant that this will be important. As such, whilst we haven't uncovered anything of it, I suspect the Dead Three eventually become equally important.


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Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by azarhal

The 3 in the game title is based on the 3 floating towers in Avernus that launch imps in the intro cinematic.[/spoiler]



I wasn't referring to the logo; that three merely points to being the third in a series. I meant the actual loading screens; they specifically mention and name the Dead Three. You know, in the loading screen tips, "Remember, while your character does not have to eat, remember that you do. We don't want to loose any dedicated players" . There are only a handful of tips about the gameworld, including the war between Shar & Selune, it's already apparant that this will be important. As such, whilst we haven't uncovered anything of it, I suspect the Dead Three eventually become equally important.


I know what you were referring to. I was just adding that the 3 is shaped like the 3 floating Avernus towers.

The logo isn't just a Bhaal's skull that turns into a Mindflayer. It also has Avernus symbolism on it.

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Originally Posted by rodeolifant

As such, whilst we haven't uncovered anything of it, I suspect the Dead Three eventually become equally important.


There is a theory going around that the player is the new Cyric and is destined to ascend to godhood or at least use the godsword to destroy the Dead Three.




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Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Doesn’t Wyll specifically declare his patron as being a demon?

And yeah, not every origin character needs to be representative of a faction. Since there will be at least 8 characters, having them all represent a faction would get convoluted.


Wyll might not be aware that WoTC made a change there. wink


She's a half cambion. So she's not a demon but a half devil. And it seems half devils are still able to use pacts. Which is interesting.

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Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Doesn’t Wyll specifically declare his patron as being a demon?

And yeah, not every origin character needs to be representative of a faction. Since there will be at least 8 characters, having them all represent a faction would get convoluted.


Wyll might not be aware that WoTC made a change there. wink


She's a half cambion. So she's not a demon but a half devil. And it seems half devils are still able to use pacts. Which is interesting.


She's just a cambion, not a half cambion. So, basically the same as Raphael. Pacts can be made with both demons or devils btw, including their halfbreeds. Demons just don't necessarily feel bound by such agreements due to their nature.

Gale's explanation of what makes a cambion is also faulty. Technically, a union with ANY fiend can produce a cambion (older editions had other variations), it is not restricted to incubi and succubi. So, she can be a half-demon OR half-devil.


Last edited by Leuenherz; 26/10/20 05:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by Vhaldez

There is a theory going around that the player is the new Cyric and is destined to ascend to godhood or at least use the godsword to destroy the Dead Three.


That sounds more like a very high level story. BG3 will only go to 12 or so. An interesting option would be to pit the various entities against each other. Sharrans vs. Githyanki vs. Absolute (whatever it is)
Bhaal being involved makes sense for a bit of continuation but if the dead three really want to hind behind the absolute they should not use their symbols everywhere. "If you are coming from iraq, why is there a US Air Force logo on all of your planes?"


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Originally Posted by Leuenherz
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Doesn’t Wyll specifically declare his patron as being a demon?

And yeah, not every origin character needs to be representative of a faction. Since there will be at least 8 characters, having them all represent a faction would get convoluted.


Wyll might not be aware that WoTC made a change there. wink


She's a half cambion. So she's not a demon but a half devil. And it seems half devils are still able to use pacts. Which is interesting.


She's just a cambion, not a half cambion. So, basically the same as Raphael. Pacts can be made with both demons or devils btw, including their halfbreeds. Demons just don't necessarily feel bound by such agreements due to their nature.

Gale's explanation of what makes a cambion is also faulty. Technically, a union with ANY fiend can produce a cambion (older editions had other variations), it is not restricted to incubi and succubi. So, she can be a half-demon OR half-devil.



No, Wyll states clearly she's a half cambion when you talk to him in the camp. We are talking about Mizora here, right?

Last edited by Nyanko; 26/10/20 11:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by Nyanko
No, Wyll states clearly she's a half cambion when you talk to him in the camp. We are talking about Mizora here, right?


Yes, but I never had much luck with Wyll or Gale to tell me anything despite high approval so I'm going with what others are saying. I read she was a succubus somewhere, then you said half-cambion, then someone else said full cambion than we are back at half-cambion.

But I have no idea what is a half-cambion. Cambions are already half-fiends lol.

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She's a cambion, aligned with hell. Wyll really gets triggered with Raphael's appearance and tells you to never trust a devil. (He's talking from experience.)

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I went back and checked on YouTube, he says Mizora is “a cambion; half human, half devil.” So I was wrong, she is a devil and not a demon.

I’m pretty sure that a half-cambion is just a tiefling.

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Originally Posted by rodeolifant

And we've already encountered most of the opposing forces.
Avernus [Zariel] - Raphael is introduced as the if-you-fail-at-other-things option. There are quite a number of mentions/depictions of the Bloodwar and [Descent into] Avernus. It's bound to be important.
Demons [Wyll] - He comes with a Demon overlord. One that might have a vested interest in the above mentioned Bloodwar.
Githyanki [Laezal] - Tiamat once held Zariel's position, again, in Avernus, currently allied with the Githyanki.
Sharrans [Shadowheart] Shadowheart directly opposes the Githyanki, they weren't chasing Mindflayers, they were chasing Shadowheart and the... Relic of Holies.
Vampires [Astarion] - His origin will undoubtely be the choice of 'side with Vamps and overtrhow the other evil, or be more evil and overthrow the Vamps'
Selunites [Default Tav] - Also mentioned to be in a war against Sharrans, their stuff is broken everywhere.



I think it has been stated that the player will visit Avernus again at some later point in the story.

The Sharrans do not seem to be in a pact with the Absolute. New info on Ketheric from some dialogue responses of the Nightsong:


Thousands of Sharrans came here seeking my kiss. I am her instrument, transforming the faithful into shadows.
I want to sing my own song, not Shars, not Ketherics
Shar is the nightsinger and I her nightsong
I am a slave of Shar
Slay Ketheric, his wretched existence binds me to this temple
I was captured by Ketheric, he turned me into this creature


I sometimes use thought experiments. I don't necessarily believe in every idea I post for discussion on this forum
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