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Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Tuco
Yeah, this update pissed me off a bit.
Not for the lack of big changes in the patch (I already said more than once that minor hotfixes are all I'm expecting on the long term) but because the official post that accompanied the patch spent most of its length throwing useless factoids at us without even PRETENDING to acknowledge (let alone address) the most recurring points of criticism.

I think the problem is not that larian doesn't address anything, is that it seems like they're addressing very specific things - the data they get from our playthroughs. It's the second or third time since the release of the EA that all Larian is talking about is data they collected from people playing the game. nothing about comments from the community. like we are some kind of lab rats in their experiment lol

The worrying part is that the conclusions they reach based on that data they collect seem to have some serious bias. I would even call it tunnel vision.

I must admit, I had that feeling.
Maybe just a bit, but I can't deny it.

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Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Tuco
Yeah, this update pissed me off a bit.
Not for the lack of big changes in the patch (I already said more than once that minor hotfixes are all I'm expecting on the long term) but because the official post that accompanied the patch spent most of its length throwing useless factoids at us without even PRETENDING to acknowledge (let alone address) the most recurring points of criticism.

I think the problem is not that larian doesn't address anything, is that it seems like they're addressing very specific things - the data they get from our playthroughs. It's the second or third time since the release of the EA that all Larian is talking about is data they collected from people playing the game. nothing about comments from the community. like we are some kind of lab rats in their experiment lol

The worrying part is that the conclusions they reach based on that data they collect seem to have some serious bias. I would even call it tunnel vision.

I'm sure there is much value in the data they collect and never shuts up about, but I'm not sure they understand the limitations of this kind of data.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Tuco
Yeah, this update pissed me off a bit.
Not for the lack of big changes in the patch (I already said more than once that minor hotfixes are all I'm expecting on the long term) but because the official post that accompanied the patch spent most of its length throwing useless factoids at us without even PRETENDING to acknowledge (let alone address) the most recurring points of criticism.

I think the problem is not that larian doesn't address anything, is that it seems like they're addressing very specific things - the data they get from our playthroughs. It's the second or third time since the release of the EA that all Larian is talking about is data they collected from people playing the game. nothing about comments from the community. like we are some kind of lab rats in their experiment lol

The worrying part is that the conclusions they reach based on that data they collect seem to have some serious bias. I would even call it tunnel vision.


Am I the only one who thinks most of this patch is stuff they were already working on before the EA came out?

And they do mention the community...Twitch...

and stan memes?

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That data mentality isn't Larian speaking, it's WotC/Hasbro.

Anyone familiar with tabletop and these two publishers knows that they love statistical surveys and the only thing they take away from it is how to model their product for increasing profits. This is why you see prevalent trends being endorsed and acknowledged without context or consideration. It started with character creation and now it's going into romance, good vs evil and other tripe nonsense and it will continue to go like this probably until shortly before release because, and this is just theory through reasoning, whatever difference there was between them and other devs who wanted the title most likely revolves around "it will sell more because of X Y Z" and now statistics are showing this to not be the case.

I understand that seems like lunacy but again, if you are familiar with WotC/Hasbro this is nothing new. They have dropped multiple projects before for this reason and have released products for this reason as well. Look up how "Dragon Magic" came to be a thing.


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Originally Posted by Sozz


Am I the only one who thinks most of this patch is stuff they were already working on before the EA came out?

And they do mention the community...Twitch...

and stan memes?


You are most likely right, they must also be working on Act 1B (and C/D), Acts 2 and 3 etc. behind the scenes while slowly working backwards to implement feedback. But then they also make funny jokes about how so many people chose the good path meaning there is much good in the world.

Originally Posted by Argonaut
That data mentality isn't Larian speaking, it's WotC/Hasbro.

Anyone familiar with tabletop and these two publishers knows that they love statistical surveys and the only thing they take away from it is how to model their product for increasing profits. This is why you see prevalent trends being endorsed and acknowledged without context or consideration. It started with character creation and now it's going into romance, good vs evil and other tripe nonsense and it will continue to go like this probably until shortly before release because, and this is just theory through reasoning, whatever difference there was between them and other devs who wanted the title most likely revolves around "it will sell more because of X Y Z" and now statistics are showing this to not be the case.

I understand that seems like lunacy but again, if you are familiar with WotC/Hasbro this is nothing new. They have dropped multiple projects before for this reason and have released products for this reason as well. Look up how "Dragon Magic" came to be a thing.


This is probably also why Twitch integration is a basegame feature and why controller support is available etc. marketing decisions to appeal to certain demographics.


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Originally Posted by Sozz


Am I the only one who thinks most of this patch is stuff they were already working on before the EA came out?


I get that impression too.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Reading you is very dissapointing because everyone before the EA's launch said something like "Larian always listen to players".
That's exactly why I bought the EA, to give my feedback and hope BG3 could become the followings of the legend.

If they don't listen, I think the "DoS3" things will definitely become true.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 27/10/20 04:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by Argonaut
Of course they aren't.

they've already cashed in on BG3 pretty hard with a legal caveat in case they decide to never finish it.


Yeeeaaahhhh that's would not make a whole lot of sense from a business standpoint; not finishing the game when you know they have the funds to do so lol. I am confident they will finish this game as they feel they should.

That said, this update is a bummer. Better cinematics is not enough of a reason for me to replay this a 3rd time. I just want a working level cap increase frown That alone would have kept me going because then you can at least experiment with new power! I also didn't really care for how many players slept with who. Thanks for sharing but a content update of any kind - be it new leveling stats or new encounter(s) - would have kept me going.

Funny I decided to fire up DoS2 DE since I never ran through DE (beat it a long time ago before they released that update) and it's like wow look at all the stuff that's working flawlessly! You would think that at least some fundamentals would already be in place in BG3 working properly like inventory management/trade management/hotbar management, clicking on party portraits the first time instead of the 4th time to try and highlight the god damn char.

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The EA legal caveat includes "might never be finished" my dude. Remember that the game finishing is not up to larian but WotC/Hasbro.

Oh and DivOS2 DE still has a lot of bugs and features that are not working / balanced but Larian doesn't care. I've posted videos of such stuff in the mega threads area in the RTwP VS Turn based thread if you are interested but you can look up "Manithro" on youtube and his entire channel is breaking the combat system and explaining in detail why the balance is horrendous. Hell, I'll just link them again

Solo last boss with Cat - 1 turn kill
It's not a bug it's a feature
Mages are balanced and phys damage is fair


Last edited by Argonaut; 27/10/20 04:32 PM.

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I wonder, do people who bought dos2 EA had to pay extra for the definitive edition?


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Originally Posted by Tequilaman
I don't really know if Larian is listening.

What do you think?


I hope they do.
Even if at this very moment i'am not really happy with BG3 for many different reasons, I still have a faith that on Day 1 it will become the game i've been waiting for.
Only time will tell, but it's nice to say so many regular updates from them.

Last edited by ste100; 27/10/20 04:32 PM.
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Originally Posted by Sozz

Am I the only one who thinks most of this patch is stuff they were already working on before the EA came out?

As I said, the content of the patch itself is the last of my concerns when it comes to this update.


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Originally Posted by azarhal
The only problem are people putting a morality value on the consequences instead of on the decisions/motivations of the characters. That's valid for posters and some people at Larian. It's not just about that quest. The companion's alignment threads are full of people arguing X or Y are good because they like pets. Go check the D&D alignment description, none of them says you can't like pets if evil or that good have to like pets.

Stealing isn't evil only when you get caught. It's always bad.
Saving people because you wanted to get revenge on someone holding them captive isn't you being a goody-two-shoes.
Killing the 3 leaders because Haslin won't help you otherwise and he looks like the best healer option isn't you going out of your way to save the Tieflings and play the hero.

I suspect most people have never seen the Raid/Defend the Grove, as the game set you on the "kill the 3 leaders" path from the start. I'm even surprised that they call the Defend the Grove the good path when you have to betray the trust of both the Tielfings and Minthara to get there. You're character is a selfserving asshole on that path.

Bumping this comment. In my first playthrough I was playing a self-centered, asshole, evil character. I saved the grove because that was the option I thought would benefit me the most (Halsin could heal me and Gut tried to kill me). I wonder how many of those "75% of players stood with the tieflings" were playing evil characters...

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Originally Posted by Abits
I wonder, do people who bought dos2 EA had to pay extra for the definitive edition?


No, it was auto-added to my steam library.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by azarhal
The only problem are people putting a morality value on the consequences instead of on the decisions/motivations of the characters. That's valid for posters and some people at Larian. It's not just about that quest. The companion's alignment threads are full of people arguing X or Y are good because they like pets. Go check the D&D alignment description, none of them says you can't like pets if evil or that good have to like pets.

Stealing isn't evil only when you get caught. It's always bad.
Saving people because you wanted to get revenge on someone holding them captive isn't you being a goody-two-shoes.
Killing the 3 leaders because Haslin won't help you otherwise and he looks like the best healer option isn't you going out of your way to save the Tieflings and play the hero.

I suspect most people have never seen the Raid/Defend the Grove, as the game set you on the "kill the 3 leaders" path from the start. I'm even surprised that they call the Defend the Grove the good path when you have to betray the trust of both the Tielfings and Minthara to get there. You're character is a selfserving asshole on that path.

Bumping this comment. In my first playthrough I was playing a self-centered, asshole, evil character. I saved the grove because that was the option I thought would benefit me the most (Halsin could heal me and Gut tried to kill me). I wonder how many of those "75% of players stood with the tieflings" were playing evil characters...


I can tell you that I was one of those evil characters. I might be several even if they keep track of playthrough and not profiles.

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Originally Posted by Limz
Originally Posted by Tuco
Yeah, this update pissed me off a bit.
Not for the lack of big changes in the patch (I already said more than once that minor hotfixes are all I'm expecting on the long term) but because the official post that accompanied the patch spent most of its length throwing useless factoids at us without even PRETENDING to acknowledge (let alone address) the most recurring points of criticism.


You know aside from a few people this place is nearly an echo chamber and the population is quite small; you have the same 5-6 retards bitching about 5e not being RAW, you have a bunch of people requesting for X or Y class, a bunch of bugs that are probably going to be addressed first, and a handful of QoL.

Even some of the most communicative devs (GGG for example) will not acknowledge what people think are major concerns unless it actually is. They have a ton more data than we do and we have no idea what their internal state is.


At the end of the day we represent a very small portion of the user base and most of the missing content isn't even released so the weight of our feedback is a bit diminished.

It's whatever though, if you want them to listen you'll need to get a nice tidal wave of criticism going and I think their focus is going to be more on the narrative side of things at the end of the day.


All true, what it bothers me tho it's that they incentives us, the "small player base", to report our feedback here in the forum and on steam. If they ask us to do so and then completely ignore our feedback then we should be rightfully pissed off.

I don't demand anything, they are not required to implement all the feedback just because, I'm just asking for them to consider and respond to our concerns (since we paid 60€). Why should we care how many times the dog was petted? It's cute and all but this isn't what updates should be about.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Reading you is very dissapointing because everyone before the EA's launch said something like "Larian always listen to players".
That's exactly why I bought the EA, to give my feedback and hope BG3 could become the followings of the legend.

If they don't listen, I think the "DoS3" things will definitely become true.

Let's be clear, Larian DOES listen at what the players say. They did even with their past early access experiences.

What they don't do, on the other hand, is trusting their user base feeling on a topic after all that listening.

Here's the typical "Larian Cycle" when it comes to feedback:

Larian: "here’s our clever design."
Everyone: "Boy, that sucks."
Larian: "Nuh-uh, you’ll come around eventually."

*Two years later*

Larian: "Boy, that surely sucked, uh? Too bad what’s done is done."


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Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by Abits
I wonder, do people who bought dos2 EA had to pay extra for the definitive edition?


No, it was auto-added to my steam library.

That's what I thought since in my game (I bought the definitive version) you have both versions and can choose which one to play. It's actually really cool. As a DMC fan I hate the idea of having to pay more for the same game with some new content


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Reading you is very dissapointing because everyone before the EA's launch said something like "Larian always listen to players".
That's exactly why I bought the EA, to give my feedback and hope BG3 could become the followings of the legend.

If they don't listen, I think the "DoS3" things will definitely become true.


totally agree

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Originally Posted by Tuco


Here's the typical "Larian Cycle" when it comes to feedback:

Larian: "here’s our clever design."
Everyone: "Boy, that sucks."
Larian: "Nuh-uh, you’ll come around eventually."

*Two years later*

Larian: "Boy, that surely sucked, uh? Too bad what’s done is done."





It would be nice if they kept us in the loop on what grand vision they have for the "evil" path and the Absolute. I sure hope it won't feel contrived if the latter gets a massive power increase in Act 1B / 2 and we are suddenly facing down a god or god-killer, or if the former leads to us becoming demigods through the ascension at Moonrise.

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Reading you is very dissapointing because everyone before the EA's launch said something like "Larian always listen to players".
That's exactly why I bought the EA, to give my feedback and hope BG3 could become the followings of the legend.

If they don't listen, I think the "DoS3" things will definitely become true.


Amen to that.


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