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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2015
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All summons at level 3: 1-10 HP (except the bear that has a bit more) with crap abilities and attack rolls.
Except:
Spider summon: 32 hp, poison, big bonus on attack rolls, can shoot entangling web from distance.
I haven't had any trouble with any combat since summoning the spider. It has more HP than any of the group, attacks better, more reliable at crowd control and does great damage.
That doesn't seem right.
Last edited by Lightzy; 28/10/20 02:42 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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I don't have the 5e rules but doesn't the 3rd level companions (5th level in 3.5) get stats based off the pc?
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addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2019
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I recall reading about someone saying they soloed EA with a ranger precisely because of the OP spider summon. Just one of many things that need to be corrected.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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Yeah, beastmaster pets are supposed to increase hit points, skill proficiency, attack bonus, and even stats with you as you level. Another thing Larian screwed up.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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The spider is clearly the champ, particularly with the boots that grant web immunity. The web needs to be toned down, and the others buffed. The spider does have some drawbacks though, in that its a pain in the ass to maneuver due to large size and being unable to go through companions spaces, and its jump isnt a bonus action. Another bug I noticed - the spider doesnt get its proficiency bonus to attack rolls.
The 1 HP raven is a joke though.
Last edited by Bossk_Hogg; 28/10/20 04:16 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Yeah, beastmaster pets are supposed to increase hit points, skill proficiency, attack bonus, and even stats with you as you level. Another thing Larian screwed up. Ya I thought so, I was pretty disappointed to see my wolf doing basic d20 rolls.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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I think the main reason the spider is so much better is because it is finished as a monster already. I don't recall running into many bears, wolves, or ravens in the wild and just a couple boars.
They absolutely need a balance pass. Bear should be the beefiest with the most HP and probably the most damage too. On the monster manual it has 34 HP, so I am not sure where Larian got the idea to make it so fragile. It should also have the most damage output too as the brown bear has 1D6+4 claws, 1D8+4 bite, and multi-attack.
Meanwhile the giant spider should only have 26HP and its web attack should have some kind of cool down. On tabletop you roll a D6 to see if web recharges or not. This might be an area where just giving it a cooldown is more balanced and less potentially frustrating, as a video game can use cooldowns while DnD typically can't.
The wolf is fine as far as statblock goes but needs Pack Tactics. This is what you brought a wolf for on the tabletop. Weirdly Pack Tactics is already in the game on hyenas, so I dunno why the wolf doesn't have it. It also should have the ability to knock enemies prone with its bite attack if they fail a strength save. Between these two abilities wolf is a very good support pet option.
The boar really just needs its charge to be fixed. Right now it is... Finnicky and often doesn't hit anything, or is easily obstructed.
The raven isn't really a combat companion. It is more of a scouting familiar, so the 1HP isn't a big deal. That said it should be ignored by enemy AI when they see it, allowing it to scout around without drawing aggro. It is just a bird after all.
Beyond all that I also hope we get some more exotic animal options eventually. Things like a giant snake, crocodile, or maybe a giant frog. We need variety. I mean come on, right now you can't even have a panther to make an appropriate Drizzt clone!
Also ALL PETS need to be able to keep up with the party. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten into a fight with my entire sub-class missing because my spider failed to climb up a ladder with us and I just forgot to re-summon.
I also wouldn't mind if we had to only pick ONE pet when we choose Beastmaster. Right now we can summon basically any animal we want which is good for versatility, but it loses the flavor of a nature warden who has bonded with a specific beast. Beastmasters aren't supposed to be summoners. The animal companion is a bonded pet, not a creature you summon from another plane and bind to your service.
Though I guess shifting the flavor to "you can call upon a variety of beasts to serve you" can also work. It just feels... Kind of odd. Not sure why.
Last edited by SaurianDruid; 28/10/20 11:20 PM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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As an aside, I'd like permanent talk with animals too for it. I know it's not pnp friendly, but this isn't pnp. Either as a truly permanent thing, or akin to how warlocks get it as a cantrip.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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As an aside, I'd like permanent talk with animals too for it. I know it's not pnp friendly, but this isn't pnp. Either as a truly permanent thing, or akin to how warlocks get it as a cantrip. I dunno about being able to speak with it, but I'd definitely like it to be more immersive out of combat. All these animals should have their own Perception checks as many of them get advantage due to their keen senses trait. Just add some sound effects for each pet's "get your attention" reaction when it passes a perception check and maybe a dialogue line from the ranger to the effect of "What is? Did you find something?" before revealing the hidden thing. Maybe it could also get some perception checks we don't get, like when you enter the druid's grove. Your pet should be able to warn you something is up about those mice even if it can't communicate exactly what that is. That would make Beast Tamer and Beastmaster rangers have unique interactions with animals through their pet that isn't reliant on a spell slot but without invalidating that spell.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2020
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I recall reading about someone saying they soloed EA with a ranger precisely because of the OP spider summon. Just one of many things that need to be corrected. I have done this. While the spider may be overpowered compared to the other summons, I am pretty sure this is not the only reason soloing is easy. Spider was really only useful to position the enemy or as a web caster for my fire arrows when I needed a large ground effect (I do not carry barrels in my backpack as I think it is stupid and unimmersive.) Soloing can be done with other classes just fine.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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I've brought this up in a previous post that I'll just quote below, it's not just the Giant Spider, its spiders in general. All familiars and animal companions match 5E statblocks, except for the Giant Spider companion and Spider familiar. I am totally loving the use of Find Familiar and Summon Companion, but as it stands there is one summon in each that feels out of balance. Both the Spider from Find Familiar and the Giant Spider from Summon Companion have an unusually high amount of health compared to all others of its type, deviating wildly from not only 5E HP stats both from common sense.
In the case of Find Familiar, most of the standard animal forms you can summon for your familiar have either 1 or 2 HP, which seems appropriate for a small familiar pet. But then you get to the Spider which somehow has 6 HP and it just feels out of place how a lone Spider can be somehow sturdier than say a Cat or Crab. If we compare it to the enhanced version of Find Familiar that the Pact of the Chain Warlock gets, where the Quasit has only 7 HP and the Imp has 10 HP, it feels even more out of place, since these unique Warlock familiar options are supposed to be more powerful and far sturdier than the typical animal familiar. However with the current setup, the Spider familiar is only 1 HP short of the Quasit, meaning it has more in common with the unique Warlock familiar group than with the standard group its supposed to belong to. The way I see it, the Spider should have similar HP to its other animal familiar counterparts, so I would say the devs should decrease the Spider's health to 1 or 2 HP tops, and increase the AC from 9 to something more appropriate like 12.
(On a side note, I enjoy the implementation of the Warlock Pact of the Chain familiars, and I hope the Pseudodragon is added to the game to finish out the selection of the 3 Warlock unique familiars. I expect the Pseudodragon would have an HP similar to that of the Quasit already in game if 5E is used as the basis.)
In the case of the Summon Companion, apart from the Raven which is a bird and has 1 HP, the Wolf and Boar have 11 HP and the Bear has 19 HP, so far so good, but then we get the Giant Spider with a whopping 32 HP, giving it more HP than most player Classes have at Level 3 (and even more HP than the base average HP of a Giant Spider in 5E)! This means that the Giant Spider is effectively hands down the optimal choice for a Ranger animal companion practically every time, making it an even better damage soaking companion than the Bear which is meant to be the tanky companion as made evident by its Roar aggro ability. I feel like the HP of the Giant Spider needs to be tweaked down, and/or possibly the HP of the other Ranger animal companions needs to be brought up.
Hopefully, adjustments can be made, cause as it stands, when playing with other players, I am pretty much EXPECT to summon Giant Spider as a Ranger all the time, and that just feels wrong. Companion/Familiar choice should be about its tactical abilities too, not just how overwhelmingly OP its HP is to the point that I'm essentially summoning a Level 3 Fighter healthwise.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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The summons like everything else should follow the 5th ed RAW rules.. Not this broken setup we have now..
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