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Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: trengilly] #722516
30/10/20 05:53 AM
30/10/20 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by trengilly
Sadly 1st person just doesn't work for me. I can't get attached to my character . . . I need to see them in game. And then generally get motion sickness. Skyrim nope, Avowed and Cyberpunk . . . sadly not going to happen for me. frown

Same. This is the aspect of the elder scrolls games I appreciate the most, the option to play in third person. It was very clanky in morowind and oblivion but by Skyrim it much better


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: vel] #722542
30/10/20 06:37 AM
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Same for me. Ironically, I also feel more apart of the world if I can see my character in it rather than see from his perspective. Also, I’m always a sucker for character creation and customization, which is largely wasted in first person. That is the main reason I’m not at all excited for Cyberpunk. I’ll get it in a few years probably.

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Warlocke] #722546
30/10/20 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Same for me. Ironically, I also feel more apart of the world if I can see my character in it rather than see from his perspective. Also, I’m always a sucker for character creation and customization, which is largely wasted in first person. That is the main reason I’m not at all excited for Cyberpunk. I’ll get it in a few years probably.

Same. I'm really hoping for a third person mod, but judging from the progress that was made on The Outer Lands, I don't hold my breath


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: kanisatha] #722547
30/10/20 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Awesome discussion on what makes for a good RPG. I agree with much of what you all are saying and disagree with some. But I am finding all of it really interesting.

Re. Skyrim, what I found was that about halfway through the game I got really bored with it because everything started to feel the same.

@Warlocke, the combat was the one thing I did not like in Witcher 3. But because difficulty settings are entirely about combat and affect nothing else in the game, I just set the difficulty to the lowest setting and that allowed me to thoroughly enjoy the game. But this only works with the main game and doesn't work with the DLCs because there you are very high level and the combat is super-brutal even on the lowest setting.


I might end up doing that. We will see. I prefer to play games where combat is something I enjoy and not something I need to suffer through, even briefly. I can even put my finger on what it is about Witch combat that bothers me so much. It doesn’t help that it has been so long since I tried it. I just really remember it not clicking with me.

And if they expand the series past Geralt and let you make your own Witcher who is Geralt’s pupil I’d have more patience with it. I don’t know. I like Elric of Melnibone and I like Solid Snake, but colliding then together (which is especially what Geralt is) does not do it for me.

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Abits] #722550
30/10/20 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Same for me. Ironically, I also feel more apart of the world if I can see my character in it rather than see from his perspective. Also, I’m always a sucker for character creation and customization, which is largely wasted in first person. That is the main reason I’m not at all excited for Cyberpunk. I’ll get it in a few years probably.

Same. I'm really hoping for a third person mod, but judging from the progress that was made on The Outer Lands, I don't hold my breath


Third person mods are pretty hard. It isn’t enough to just pull the camera out, as it also requires new controls and working with animations. The more sophisticated the game, the harder it is, so such a mod would probably be a nightmare on CP. Not unfeasible, especially if there is a large group dedicated to the project, but still a hassle nonetheless. I still don’t know what CDPR went with that design choice.

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Warlocke] #722553
30/10/20 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Same for me. Ironically, I also feel more apart of the world if I can see my character in it rather than see from his perspective. Also, I’m always a sucker for character creation and customization, which is largely wasted in first person. That is the main reason I’m not at all excited for Cyberpunk. I’ll get it in a few years probably.

Seems like a prevalent mindset among a subsection of RPG players, which is interesting given first person view provides the best immersion/conditions for roleplaying by far. Then again, nor did I never really understood the hordes of guys preferring to play female characters in RPGs - because they prefer to stare at a female pixelated butts lol

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Seraphael] #722563
30/10/20 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Seraphael
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Same for me. Ironically, I also feel more apart of the world if I can see my character in it rather than see from his perspective. Also, I’m always a sucker for character creation and customization, which is largely wasted in first person. That is the main reason I’m not at all excited for Cyberpunk. I’ll get it in a few years probably.

Seems like a prevalent mindset among a subsection of RPG players, which is interesting given first person view provides the best immersion/conditions for roleplaying by far. Then again, nor did I never really understood the hordes of guys preferring to play female characters in RPGs - because they prefer to stare at a female pixelated butts lol


I think that with first person it is easier to feel like I am present in the physical space and experience the immediacy of certain situations. If I am role playing a character, however, I’m not imagining that I am there. I Imagine what it is like to be this distinct character who is not me, and personally I find that it helps to see that character inhabiting that space. Plus, a big part of being a character in that world is deciding how my character looks in that world.

I’m with you I’m not understanding staring at pixelated butts though.

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Warlocke] #722611
30/10/20 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Warlocke

I think that with first person it is easier to feel like I am present in the physical space and experience the immediacy of certain situations. If I am role playing a character, however, I’m not imagining that I am there. I Imagine what it is like to be this distinct character who is not me, and personally I find that it helps to see that character inhabiting that space. Plus, a big part of being a character in that world is deciding how my character looks in that world.


This exactly. In first person I feel like I'm in the story. In 3rd person I can see and experience the character that I'm role-playing and telling the story of.

As for pixelated butts . . . well if you are playing 3rd person you have to stare at something. smile No I mix it up . . . usually playing the character that feels better for the story. Mass Effect Femshep I felt fit the story better and I preferred Jennifer Hale's VA. Same for Assassins Creed Odyssey . . . Cassandra was just better voiced and acted. But for Assassin's Creed Valhalla I'm absolutely going with the guy . . . much prefer his acting.
For games like Baldur's Gate 3 I'll be making multiple playthroughs so will mix race/class/gender just for variety and to experience different parts of the story.

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: vel] #722617
30/10/20 08:18 AM
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Pathfinder Kingmaker, the very game which let you enter combat with swarms of creatures and then tells you you need to have some AoE damage to deal with them? This Pathfinder? No, thank you.

Last edited by Nyanko; 30/10/20 08:18 AM.
Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Seraphael] #722642
30/10/20 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Seraphael

Seems like a prevalent mindset among a subsection of RPG players, which is interesting given first person view provides the best immersion/conditions for roleplaying by far. Then again, nor did I never really understood the hordes of guys preferring to play female characters in RPGs - because they prefer to stare at a female pixelated butts lol

I find no immersion in 1st person because I will not play games that make me nauseous. I tried one time for a few minutes with a lot of ginger tea, but when I was moving I couldn't understand why I was running in place. I looked down and there was a pixel rock in the way. First person feels like looking through tiny holes and being forced to move only the head and not the eyeballs.

What about females who play male characters? Sometimes we prefer to stare at the male butt. laugh I play both depending on the character I come up with, my mood, and the animations. For this game I will play mostly male. One female and two male for sure as they are already created DnD characters, the other male is one I created here but wish to play in DnD since he now has a developed personality (I get bored easily smile )

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Nyanko] #722684
30/10/20 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyanko
Pathfinder Kingmaker, the very game which let you enter combat with swarms of creatures and then tells you you need to have some AoE damage to deal with them? This Pathfinder? No, thank you.


It tells you such beforehand. No idea what the issue was (at least a year and a half ago, they've reworked the entire area since for the swarms to be wholly optional), I made this on my first attempt. Admittedly a lot of so called RPGs nowadays can actually be finished without ever following any dialgue. But the only thing that was missing here was an instrusive "TUTORIAL MESSAGE" pop-up during the dialogue where you get the optional side-quest. Now in general, the game could have done with better documentation, which is an issue all faithful tabletop adaptations have nowadays in the digital market. Realms Of Arkania, BG et all shipped with fairly comprehensive manuals.

Swarms are another specific of the Pathfinder ruleset though. Larian seem more willing to adapt (for better and worse, see their nerfing of armor classes in favor of hitpoint bloat so that players wouldn't miss as much as in the tabletop), likely because they are on a much larger budget and can't afford to only appeal to D&D players.

Last edited by Sven_; 30/10/20 10:20 AM.
Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Warlocke] #722702
30/10/20 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Warlocke

Third person mods are pretty hard. It isn’t enough to just pull the camera out, as it also requires new controls and working with animations. The more sophisticated the game, the harder it is, so such a mod would probably be a nightmare on CP. Not unfeasible, especially if there is a large group dedicated to the project, but still a hassle nonetheless. I still don’t know what CDPR went with that design choice.

CD project red strikes me as a "story character world first" company. Gameplay mechanics seem to be in lower priority for them, and they prefer to put the bulk of their resources into making the story and characters as awesome as they can. Their gameplay is usually minor part of the reason like their games. It was super true for Witcher 1 and 2 and it's also true for Witcher 3. Usually it works in my favour since these are my priorities when I play as well. But this time their choice kinda killed this game for me even though I'm sure the aspects that are usually the strongest in their games will be strong in this one as well.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: vel] #722704
30/10/20 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Arideya
I still firmly believe that Morrowind was the best TES game ever made. Everything was perfect, from the ambiance, to the music, to the story, and even combat. Sure you can cheese it, but that was the fun part. I still remember the mourning sound of the silt strider after exiting the boat.


I agree on most of that, but certainly not everything was perfect. :P Combat imo was very bad (they had this D&D-inspired system that worked terribly in a first person game) and the leveling system was atrocious. I didn't mod it out because I prefer to play vanilla, at least for the first playthrough, but the first 20 hours weren't fun gameplay-wise (a lesson for my Oblivion playthrough). But yes - in general, I agree that it's the best TES game. No nostalgia speaking, I played it for the first time about a year ago.

Originally Posted by Arideya
Oblivion was was still good imo, but potato faces, NPC conversations, and the standard medieval setting kind of diminished it.


The potato faces were so bad it made me mod them out, which is extremely rare for me, as I've mentioned. (And man is modding Oblivion hell.) I liked NPC conversations, as primitive and silly as they were, because I saw the improvement over Morrowind - NPCs spoke to each other, had daily routines and so on. But combat, same-y dungeons and level scaling were terrible in Oblivion. (Granted, combat was better than in Morrowind, mechanically... but the HP bloat made me just lower the difficulty.) And yes - the setting was as vanilla and bland as it goes. I wonder what it will be for TESVI. Certainly not High Rock or Hammerfell. Har har.

Originally Posted by Warlocke
And if they expand the series past Geralt and let you make your own Witcher who is Geralt’s pupil I’d have more patience with it. I don’t know. I like Elric of Melnibone and I like Solid Snake, but colliding then together (which is especially what Geralt is) does not do it for me.


At least he's more bearable than in the books. CDPR imo did a great job at staying true to the source material and tweaking the bad aspects of it at the same time.

I'd love the next Witcher game to have a custom Witcher protagonist, I was thinking it would be cool if
Letho got to reestablish the School of the Viper and the protagonist was one of the first new witchers
, but I'm afraid they are going to go with Ciri... Iirc it was hinted at. I hope I'm wrong.



Regarding male and female protagonists - I choose semi-randomly, though there are some factors: if a game has bikini armors/boob bowls, a male protagonist it is. Those things are ridiculous, I'm not playing a warrior-themed exotic dancer.

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: vel] #722707
30/10/20 10:24 AM
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Going with Ciri is the worst option especially with the way the game ended.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Abits] #722734
30/10/20 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Abits
Going with Ciri is the worst option especially with the way the game ended.


I mean, the "good" ending would make sense for that, but... I just really don't like Ciri. And it would be a huge wasted opportunity for a custom witcher game.

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Abits] #722812
30/10/20 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Warlocke

Third person mods are pretty hard. It isn’t enough to just pull the camera out, as it also requires new controls and working with animations. The more sophisticated the game, the harder it is, so such a mod would probably be a nightmare on CP. Not unfeasible, especially if there is a large group dedicated to the project, but still a hassle nonetheless. I still don’t know what CDPR went with that design choice.

CD project red strikes me as a "story character world first" company. Gameplay mechanics seem to be in lower priority for them, and they prefer to put the bulk of their resources into making the story and characters as awesome as they can. Their gameplay is usually minor part of the reason like their games. It was super true for Witcher 1 and 2 and it's also true for Witcher 3. Usually it works in my favour since these are my priorities when I play as well. But this time their choice kinda killed this game for me even though I'm sure the aspects that are usually the strongest in their games will be strong in this one as well.

Well I pray that isn't true for Cyberpunk. I expect a lot from that game, including great FPS gameplay.
I don't think the developers should choose beteween great story and great gameplay. Just go for both.

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: vel] #722878
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I feel the same way about first person as many of you. I don't feel like I'm my character when I can't see them, and especially yes all of that customization of my character that I want. I feel disconnected, both from my character and even from the world since I can only see the world from one rather limited perspective. But I'm not at all wedded to isometric either. I feel third-person (with a freely movable camera) is actually the most optimal.

For Avowed, I am quite confident we will get the option of third-person. Obsidian's current game, Grounded, which was developed before MS bought them up, is also first-person. They received many calls from people asking for a third-person option, to which the developers actually responded on the forum saying they would love to have that option in the game but don't have the budget for it. So budget was the only reason for not including optional third-person. But now they have MS's money. smile

Re. "Witcher 4," yeah the "consensus" among fans and gaming journos seems to be the game will be based on Ciri. I also am not too thrilled about that (nothing to do with gender, btw). I just don't find her character to have enough there to fill out even one story-rich game let alone a trilogy. And, there's talk that in a Ciri game they can use her power to be able to teleport to any world to have us go "world-hopping." I HATE world-hopping as a game concept.

Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: vel] #722887
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Out of curiosity I just Googled “Avowed third person.” Apparently Obsidian recently posted a job listing for an animator for third person combat animations. The listing didn’t mention Avowed, but that is a good sign.

I hope Avowed does well. I think Pillars of Eternity is a great IP, and even if I had problems with the sequel, I think that it did enough right to warrant another chance. Obsidian had a lot of talent, so with the right resources they could make PoE3 something really special.

Last edited by Warlocke; 30/10/20 03:21 PM.
Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Danielbda] #722903
30/10/20 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Warlocke

Third person mods are pretty hard. It isn’t enough to just pull the camera out, as it also requires new controls and working with animations. The more sophisticated the game, the harder it is, so such a mod would probably be a nightmare on CP. Not unfeasible, especially if there is a large group dedicated to the project, but still a hassle nonetheless. I still don’t know what CDPR went with that design choice.

CD project red strikes me as a "story character world first" company. Gameplay mechanics seem to be in lower priority for them, and they prefer to put the bulk of their resources into making the story and characters as awesome as they can. Their gameplay is usually minor part of the reason like their games. It was super true for Witcher 1 and 2 and it's also true for Witcher 3. Usually it works in my favour since these are my priorities when I play as well. But this time their choice kinda killed this game for me even though I'm sure the aspects that are usually the strongest in their games will be strong in this one as well.

Well I pray that isn't true for Cyberpunk. I expect a lot from that game, including great FPS gameplay.
I don't think the developers should choose beteween great story and great gameplay. Just go for both.

It's not about choosing, it's about their strengths as developers. gameplay was always their weaker side. but you also can't deny the progress they made even in this aspect. if you think the witcher 3's combat is bad, check out witcher 1 to see what bad combat truly looks like.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Re: Best thing about BG3: Pathfinder & Solasta [Re: Warlocke] #723048
30/10/20 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Out of curiosity I just Googled “Avowed third person.” Apparently Obsidian recently posted a job listing for an animator for third person combat animations. The listing didn’t mention Avowed, but that is a good sign.

I hope Avowed does well. I think Pillars of Eternity is a great IP, and even if I had problems with the sequel, I think that it did enough right to warrant another chance. Obsidian had a lot of talent, so with the right resources they could make PoE3 something really special.

The "problems" with the sequel was lack of marketing.
Deadfire is a fantastic game and a visual marvel. It has the best looks and best class system of all CRPGs.

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