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Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" #722417
30/10/20 02:31 AM
30/10/20 02:31 AM
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OneManArmy Offline OP
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Considering how many players are complaining about the evil path in EA, I decided to write a detailed letter indicating exactly how to fix the evil path.

1. We need a choice when we first visit the Druid Grove. Have one of the goblins shout to us "Hey, True Soul, help us!" and the player will be able to help attack the gate if he chooses their side in the dialogue before the start of the battle. Now this scene shows the player that he has no choice and the goblins can only be enemies.

Accordingly, the assault squad will be forced to retreat. When retreating, one of the goblins will have to tell the goblins in the abandoned village and at the entrance to the camp so that they do not attack the player (if he is not a drow). Just like Sazza does. By the way, Sazza, whom many people liked (not me, but there were many people on the forum), will not be executed in this case!

2. There are many bugs along the evil path. Among them are the following:
2.1 No reaction if the player decides to destroy all tieflings himself, and begins to kill them. Tieflings behave as if nothing is happening. This is a very big flaw, I will not list all the moments where a reaction is needed, Larian just needs to plant one tester who will try to kill everyone in the Grove of the Druids and they will immediately see what I am talking about. Also, tieflings don't react in any way when I destroyed their gate to the camp. They're kind of stupid.
2.2. If the player has killed ALL tieflings and druids personally, he cannot surprise Minthara and tell about it when visiting the goblin camp. They still gather an assault squad into an empty grove. Wtf

There may not be any epic attack scene at the Druid Grove at all. My bug happened in the following ways:
2.3 - I came to the grove, and since the leader of the tieflings was dead either in a collision with the druids, or when I killed him in a knockout, I had no one to talk to. The game simply believed that the battle was over, and Minthara congratulated me on my victory. In the quest log there was a note that I did not interfere with the battle at all and missed it.
2.4. I came to the grove and waited for the goblin squad to arrive. To wait until nightfall, I went to camp, and could not use fast travel until morning. In the morning they tell me that I missed the battle. You need the option to wait on the spot, it shouldn't depend on whether Zevlor is alive or not.
2.5. Incorrect display of the task in the quest menu. The game cannot understand whether we will defend the Grove, or attack it.

3. Why can't I explain to Minthara what happened to me, and at the same time make it clear that I am on her side and ready to help, ready to learn more about the Absolute?
Even if the conversation with Minthara about tadpoles should take place later, in the next act, as planned by the game's writers. The player is never told, even in the voice of the narrator, that the Absolute can be a solution, that there is some logic in taking the side of Minthara. Add either an explanation or the voice of the narrator, now it is completely incomprehensible why a player with a tadpole problem in his head should kill druids who have an understandable solution. The game does not give any reasons, no hints that we can make such a decision and it may be interesting and useful to us. Helping goblins looks like an easter egg, or an idiotic act in the context of it.

4. Minthara dialogue with the question about Lolth is also needed, some evil players who played as Lolth Drow think that she has some kind of problem with Lolth, either don't want problems with Lolth themselves, and this is the reason for killing her and helping the tieflings (!!!). Let her say ... yes, at least something. It may even be a lie. So that we don't worry about it. I don't want the drow of Lolth to kill her, I want the option to betray Lolth himself in favor of Mintara and her beliefs.

5. We need to add a couple of small quests from Minthara so that acquaintance with her does not start with an epic final mission. For example, a great option for a quest is to kill the druid they took prisoner to prove our loyalty to her. Now this druid-bear is absolutely useless in an evil passage, there is no reason to find him and kill him. Perhaps we need to involve the other two leaders of the goblins, each should give us some kind of small quest so that we win their respect, and not immediately become their leader. Now these goblin leaders are only a problem, the same on good playthroughs and evil playthroughs.

6. Fewer situations in which all goblins become aggressive when we try to tread the path of evil, please. Traps await us at every step in the goblin camp, in this regard, some players might have the impression that the goblins will become aggressive in any case and the player needs to help the tieflings.

7. Let Minthara hint that she will be happy to join / see us after we pass the absolute test. Uncertainty is upsetting. She is a very interesting character and many people asked her to join the party.
Also, many people asked that she had the opportunity to abandon Lolth / Absolute under certain conditions and serve her own interests in our company in the future (neutral or law-evil passage).
I would also like to have the option to spare her or kill her when she has low HP on a good playthrough.
Okay, this is already offtopic.. Everyone already understands that I want more Minthara content.
Also missing is the hint that the goblins will become non-aggressive again if we pass the Absolute test.

8. The path to Moonrise Tower lies very close to the goblin camp, it is impossible to go without a fight. We need a charisma / ilithid ability check so that we can explain to the goblins guard that we are going to the Absolute test, and everything is ok. I don't want to kill goblins on principle. These are my future minions (?), plus Minthara asked not to come into conflict with them, and I don't want to create problems for her.

9. Make the ending with the video from the developers, the same as the players got with a good walkthrough after the Underdark.
For the "evil way" the ending comes when we try to go to the location where the drider should meet us and take us to the Moonrise Tower. We just see the map and nothing happens.

10. Regarding the "equipment of the Absolute" which only work if we are branded by the absolute, it is so unclear that I learned about it only from a post on the forum. Why can't we buy them or receive a reward for our wonderful quest, but have to get them from the corpses of cultists? Why doesn't anyone explain this and the meaning of the brand of the Absolute (I avoided the priestess because she really wants to kill us, and Minthara does not give any answers at all), and it looks like an Easter egg again? What the hell is the point in that?

You need to put on yourself the brand of absolute and kill cultists to get the power of the Absolute to fight the Absolute ... who in their right mind would do that? I thought that since I was helping Minthara, I was already completing the introductory quest to join the Absolute, and this is just a brand for goblins - not for leaders. Will this be a reason to show statistics that 1% of the players inflicted the stigma?


If it had been implemented from the beginning, the statistic would not have been 75 to 25.

If I missed something, please add an answer to the topic, I really hope that Larian will read this. If you do not agree with somehow point, I will be glad to reasoned criticism.

UPD: I would like to complement what was said in the topic with reasoning on why Lawful Evil is better than Chaotic Evil and is more tempting for the player:

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=724244#Post724244

Last edited by OneManArmy; 01/11/20 10:19 PM. Reason: update
Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: OneManArmy] #722699
30/10/20 10:08 AM
30/10/20 10:08 AM
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Abits Offline
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I think 1 is very problematic. First of all you have no idea what is a true soul by this point of the game but that's not a big deal. The bigger problem is how it potentially changes everything in the story. Suppose we help the goblins, what the outcome would be? Destroying everything in the grove right there? I think it's too soon for it, and it means you finish the evil path before it even started. Perhaps make the battle impossible to win and at some point you will trigger a cutscene and have to retreat and then you can go straight to the goblin camp? That might be good, but I highly doubt Larian would do something like that. However, I said it before and I'll say it again, you shouldn't be the one offering solutions, just the one pointing out the problems. Larian's writers should be the ones to figure out how to solve them. And as such, your main point (the initial encounter to the conflict is not great) still stands.

About 2 - absolutely agree. I wrote about it so much it came out of my ears.

The other points are great as well.

I would add a point about the goblin "leaders" - make them more real. Create scenarios they interact with each other and I would even create some sort of inner conflict between them. Otherwise I don't see the point in having three of them.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: OneManArmy] #722713
30/10/20 10:39 AM
30/10/20 10:39 AM
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AD 1. Personaly im strongly against it ...
First of all, they dont know that you are True Soul, until you use your tadpole on them ...
Secondly, i cant imagine how lowly goblin can even dare to adress True Soul like this, nor dare to give him any orders ...
And finaly, it breaks the whole wibe on that situation ... bloodthirsty goblins are attacking, then they see some traveler, and they stop to chat? Oh please. :-/

I could imagine the same situation as it is in game right now (sadly Kanon dies) ...
But forcing in this particular case player protagonist to have first strike ... then present choice to him, either he attack some goblin, goblin leader screams something like "Over there, theres another!" and battle continues as it is ... or he attack some defender, then goblin leader screams something like "Keep that one alive!" and Zevlor screams something like "He's/She's with Goblins, spare no arrow!"
And when combat ends, then its right time for Goblin leader to talk with protagonist ... where you:
- either are Drow(or Duegar if playable), or use tadpole powers on him, therefore you present yourself as True Soul ... all theese options lead to goblin bows to the ground and recognize you as one of his leaders ... tells you everything, and leads you to goblin camp just as Sazza did (and she will probably die) ...
- or you try your luck with dices to intimidate / persuate / etc. him to tell you what is going on ... and if you success, same story, he will take you to goblin camp
- or you just attack them aswell ... therefore you dont move forward in quest in this moment

Whole druid groove will be unaviable for you anyway, for now, unless you find that secret entrance.
Wich you should be able to tell Minthara about, to use it in your advantage when attacking.
Real tricky question here is, if player enters that secret entrance ... if people inside the groove should, or should not be hostile ... on the one hand, you just killed their gate guards ... on the other hand, how should they know ... and do druids even care? O_o

Then in attack scenario, i would imagine either Ogre throwing you on top of that gate, or just adding some steel siege ladder. smile

AD 2.1 Here im not certain ... yes, some reactions should be added, but not like you attack one Tiefling, and whole town imediatly turn hostile towards you ... i would imagine some circle around person, if that one isnt separated in building ... like in prison, or that warehouse ... those are cases that makes sence that no one will help them.
And yes, not reacting to destroy gate is kinda stupid. laugh
AD 2.2. +1 absolutely agree.

AD 3. Im not entirely sure if you really should discuss your problem with her ... either she can take it as abandoning the Absolute and attack you, or she can take you as possible competition and attack you aswell ... but i completely agree that you should be able to tell her, no matter what her reaction will be.

AD 4. Here i once aggain disagree ... just not in full reach.
I love the idea of betraying Lolth to join Minthara, that is interesting to be certain ... and using deception diceroll here sounds even more interesting!

But i would also like to see for Lolth-Sworn Drow to have use for that dialog option where you kill her, for her abandoning Lolth ... BUT! I would like in this case to stop fight right after her death with protagonist screaming "STOP IMEDIATLY!" at remaining goblins, then have some persuation / intimidation option for them, to tell something like "Everyone who dont wish to end like her, kneel before Zod!" (ehm ... before me i mean ofc. laugh )

AD 5. Love it, excelent idea. :3

AD 6. Here i would not say fewer situations ... since, as in point 1. this reflects their temper, so i guess its good thing ...
I would recomend to add some savespots, like you have with Crusher ... you can totally fight him, and rest of the Goblins is runing toward you, but they are just watching the show ... when Crusher reaches low HP, he yields, and everything is ok, unless you decide to kill him.

AD 7. I would not like this ... Minthara is clearly suppose to be elevated superior figure, and any show of liking the protagonist so fast will ruin it. :-/

AD 8. There is possibility to go without a fight ... it involves a lot of carefull stealting tho ...
Also that is one of obstacles in True Soul gameplay ... and obsacles, or challenges are in general quite good ... so i dont see how this is improving gameplay anyhow, except making it easier. O_o

AD 9. If you see the map, there is text in the bottom part, and it says:
"The region you're trying to reach is not yet avilable in Early Access."
So i gues, there is still some work in progres ... therefore we didnt get the video. wink

That is why i keep telling people that this is not whole Act1. laugh


Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: OneManArmy] #722735
30/10/20 11:17 AM
30/10/20 11:17 AM
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Yeah the evil path has issues, and so far makes sense due to missing context. Just seems evil for the sake of evil which can fit some folk.

It's not like it's even hard to destroy the druid grove. So I'm not sure why Minth doesn't react to it unless they didn't get around to it. But they did want people to do the evil path so I'd assume its the most content filled one.

I just walked around the druid grove and placed barrels everywhere. Detonated it. Everyone outside was dead in a chain reaction. The fact that they let you in, and you can be a Drow, and just... let you place explosive barrels everywhere is very suspect. People shouldn't trust Drow to begin with. And I'd imagine a Drow placing kaboom barrels all over the place would raise a lot of brows.

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: OneManArmy] #722890
30/10/20 03:26 PM
30/10/20 03:26 PM
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kanisatha Offline
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I think many of you wanting to play evil are conflating playing a character in an evil way with the core story of the game having an "evil path" or an evil outcome/ending. Being able to play your character however you want, including as an evil-oriented character, and having this be a rewarding and "fun" experience is one thing, and one I agree ought to be available in the game. But expecting an "evil path" to the main story, including some sort of evil ending, in a game that is set in the Forgotten Realms setting, is highly unrealistic. To put it bluntly, evil is just not going to end up "winning" in a Forgotten Realms game.

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: kanisatha] #722896
30/10/20 03:42 PM
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Abits Offline
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
I think many of you wanting to play evil are conflating playing a character in an evil way with the core story of the game having an "evil path" or an evil outcome/ending. Being able to play your character however you want, including as an evil-oriented character, and having this be a rewarding and "fun" experience is one thing, and one I agree ought to be available in the game. But expecting an "evil path" to the main story, including some sort of evil ending, in a game that is set in the Forgotten Realms setting, is highly unrealistic. To put it bluntly, evil is just not going to end up "winning" in a Forgotten Realms game.

But it's not really about it. we already have an outcome in the game as it is right now which is kind of an "evil win". it doesn't matter if in the large scale of things it won't matter much, I doubt the "good path" would matter much either. the problem is not about the outcome, it's about how we get there.

Last edited by Abits; 30/10/20 03:42 PM.

Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: OneManArmy] #722902
30/10/20 03:44 PM
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The situation with the player being aware of the tadpole while none of the evil people are is such a strange part of the narrative on Larian's part. I think that should be addressed too, so that the player is not signing up with people who know less about their precidament than they themselves do.

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: OneManArmy] #722910
30/10/20 03:52 PM
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I think they are ... just differently. :-/

Good and neutral (like Volo and Hag) characters are providing alternatives to get rid of that thing ...
Evil characters are providing chances to use it.

Why would any evil character wanted to get rid of something that is giving him benefits, especialy if he dont need to yet?


Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: kanisatha] #722913
30/10/20 03:59 PM
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OneManArmy Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
I think many of you wanting to play evil are conflating playing a character in an evil way with the core story of the game having an "evil path" or an evil outcome/ending. Being able to play your character however you want, including as an evil-oriented character, and having this be a rewarding and "fun" experience is one thing, and one I agree ought to be available in the game. But expecting an "evil path" to the main story, including some sort of evil ending, in a game that is set in the Forgotten Realms setting, is highly unrealistic. To put it bluntly, evil is just not going to end up "winning" in a Forgotten Realms game.


Yes, maybe the story will follow the same path, and the Absolute will be the final boss anyway. I would not say that this is very bad.
But it is obvious that in the "good" and "evil" passage we will have different allies, in the good way it will be Will, different druids and others, in the evil - Minthara who will understand that she was deceived and infected with a tadpole, and perhaps some goblins minions ... There will also be different ways to gather an army and achieve your goal, like in Dragon Age Origin, but even better. This is just a theory.

I hope that the writers of the game will come up with everything much better than we can imagine and make everyone happy. The most important thing is for Larian to keep their promise and make the evil way big and really interesting. How exactly does not matter, the main thing is that Minthara is there. smile And without any tragic moments where she is killed at the end like Viconia please.
This can be interesting since Minthara betrayed Lolth, and then she will be forced to betray the Absolute after learning the truth, except for us she will have no allies and the ability to protect herself and gain power. In this context, she would be an interesting companion even with a good run, if spared when attacking the goblin camp.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I think they are ... just differently. :-/

Good and neutral (like Volo and Hag) characters are providing alternatives to get rid of that thing ...
Evil characters are providing chances to use it.

Why would any evil character wanted to get rid of something that is giving him benefits, especialy if he dont need to yet?


I have not seen a single dialogue or hint in the goblin walkthrough that we can save the tadpole and use its power, that is the problem

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: OneManArmy] #722925
30/10/20 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy

I have not seen a single dialogue or hint in the goblin walkthrough that we can save the tadpole and use its power, that is the problem


Because they don't know the tadpole exists lol.

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: Vhaldez] #722930
30/10/20 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by OneManArmy

I have not seen a single dialogue or hint in the goblin walkthrough that we can save the tadpole and use its power, that is the problem


Because they don't know the tadpole exists lol.

Then the voice of the narrator is needed to give at least some logic to help those who do not know anything about our problem to kill those who know its solution

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: OneManArmy] #722949
30/10/20 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Then the voice of the narrator is needed to give at least some logic to help those who do not know anything about our problem to kill those who know its solution

Who actively try to kill us whenever they hear about our problem.

[Linked Image]

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: Vhaldez] #722950
30/10/20 04:21 PM
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Abits Offline
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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Then the voice of the narrator is needed to give at least some logic to help those who do not know anything about our problem to kill those who know its solution

Who actively try to kill us whenever they hear about our problem.



To be fair the good guys are not much better in that regard


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: Abits] #722951
30/10/20 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by kanisatha
I think many of you wanting to play evil are conflating playing a character in an evil way with the core story of the game having an "evil path" or an evil outcome/ending. Being able to play your character however you want, including as an evil-oriented character, and having this be a rewarding and "fun" experience is one thing, and one I agree ought to be available in the game. But expecting an "evil path" to the main story, including some sort of evil ending, in a game that is set in the Forgotten Realms setting, is highly unrealistic. To put it bluntly, evil is just not going to end up "winning" in a Forgotten Realms game.

But it's not really about it. we already have an outcome in the game as it is right now which is kind of an "evil win". it doesn't matter if in the large scale of things it won't matter much, I doubt the "good path" would matter much either. the problem is not about the outcome, it's about how we get there.

Fair enough. It's just when I see the phrase "evil path," I see it as people demanding an "evil" outcome/ending for the main story. And I just don't see how Larian could deliver such a thing without breaking decades of FR lore.

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: OneManArmy] #722962
30/10/20 04:26 PM
30/10/20 04:26 PM
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kanisatha Offline
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by kanisatha
I think many of you wanting to play evil are conflating playing a character in an evil way with the core story of the game having an "evil path" or an evil outcome/ending. Being able to play your character however you want, including as an evil-oriented character, and having this be a rewarding and "fun" experience is one thing, and one I agree ought to be available in the game. But expecting an "evil path" to the main story, including some sort of evil ending, in a game that is set in the Forgotten Realms setting, is highly unrealistic. To put it bluntly, evil is just not going to end up "winning" in a Forgotten Realms game.


Yes, maybe the story will follow the same path, and the Absolute will be the final boss anyway. I would not say that this is very bad.
But it is obvious that in the "good" and "evil" passage we will have different allies, in the good way it will be Will, different druids and others, in the evil - Minthara who will understand that she was deceived and infected with a tadpole, and perhaps some goblins minions ... There will also be different ways to gather an army and achieve your goal, like in Dragon Age Origin, but even better. This is just a theory.

I hope that the writers of the game will come up with everything much better than we can imagine and make everyone happy. The most important thing is for Larian to keep their promise and make the evil way big and really interesting. How exactly does not matter, the main thing is that Minthara is there. smile And without any tragic moments where she is killed at the end like Viconia please.
This can be interesting since Minthara betrayed Lolth, and then she will be forced to betray the Absolute after learning the truth, except for us she will have no allies and the ability to protect herself and gain power. In this context, she would be an interesting companion even with a good run, if spared when attacking the goblin camp.

Again, I don't think we are necessarily in disagreement here. But I would point out that Larian has only "promised" (if that word is even appropriate here) giving players a viable ability to play their character in an evil way. They have not promised an evil outcome/ending to their main story. Those are two very different and separate things.

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: kanisatha] #722963
30/10/20 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Vhaldez

Who actively try to kill us whenever they hear about our problem.

To be fair the good guys are not much better in that regard
They have Halsin though. Nettie only tries to kill you because she's a novice healer.
Originally Posted by kanisatha
It's just when I see the phrase "evil path," I see it as people demanding an "evil" outcome/ending for the main story. And I just don't see how Larian could deliver such a thing without breaking decades of FR lore.
We'd need to know where this story is going first and we really don't yet.
Other than Shadowheart's weapon needing to be delivered in Baldur's Gate, the Nightsong being Ketheric and Shar's slave until the tadpole breaks their hold on her and the Absolute maybe being the Dead Three.

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: kanisatha] #722965
30/10/20 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by kanisatha
I think many of you wanting to play evil are conflating playing a character in an evil way with the core story of the game having an "evil path" or an evil outcome/ending. Being able to play your character however you want, including as an evil-oriented character, and having this be a rewarding and "fun" experience is one thing, and one I agree ought to be available in the game. But expecting an "evil path" to the main story, including some sort of evil ending, in a game that is set in the Forgotten Realms setting, is highly unrealistic. To put it bluntly, evil is just not going to end up "winning" in a Forgotten Realms game.


Yes, maybe the story will follow the same path, and the Absolute will be the final boss anyway. I would not say that this is very bad.
But it is obvious that in the "good" and "evil" passage we will have different allies, in the good way it will be Will, different druids and others, in the evil - Minthara who will understand that she was deceived and infected with a tadpole, and perhaps some goblins minions ... There will also be different ways to gather an army and achieve your goal, like in Dragon Age Origin, but even better. This is just a theory.

I hope that the writers of the game will come up with everything much better than we can imagine and make everyone happy. The most important thing is for Larian to keep their promise and make the evil way big and really interesting. How exactly does not matter, the main thing is that Minthara is there. smile And without any tragic moments where she is killed at the end like Viconia please.
This can be interesting since Minthara betrayed Lolth, and then she will be forced to betray the Absolute after learning the truth, except for us she will have no allies and the ability to protect herself and gain power. In this context, she would be an interesting companion even with a good run, if spared when attacking the goblin camp.

Again, I don't think we are necessarily in disagreement here. But I would point out that Larian has only "promised" (if that word is even appropriate here) giving players a viable ability to play their character in an evil way. They have not promised an evil outcome/ending to their main story. Those are two very different and separate things.

Let's set things straight here, no one is complaining about the outcome. The evil route outcome is fine. The problem is literally everything else


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: OneManArmy] #722982
30/10/20 04:44 PM
30/10/20 04:44 PM
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Balls Offline
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One needs to keep in mind that the ideas of good and evil and neutral are not emblazoned on people's foreheads. All characters act with a degree of personal desires and common sense, and things mostly come down to "how greedy" a character is, and how firmly aligned it is with a god, institution or race.

There are all manners of goings on happening in the world- it's pretty chaotic and giant alien spaceships seem to be crashing into fishing villages at present. Goblins are running amuk, weird gnolls popping out of hyenas, and the region seems to be in a world of sh*t.

Larian has it's work cut out for it in trying to cover all bases with such a high degree of intense well written conversations. As a gaming conceptual artist/writer myself, I think that what is in place is quite amazing thus far- but- it's going to take a long while to sort out all the crazy crap players will try to do, and ironing out the number of possible dialogue issues with people popping this guy with poison arrows, tossing another guy off a cliff, charming another's pants off, and pickpocketing another's weapons. It all adds up to endless possibilities.

What we need to do is just let 'em know what we discover- that's all. Let them sort the good, bad and the uglys from there.

The way Larian handled the dialogue, characters and events in DOS ii resulted in some of the very finest roleplay and story in all computer gaming, in my opinion. It took time to get there too. BG III, here in early days, is shaping up to be similar in quality of life- but we should expect lots and lots of crazy issues, bugs and unfinished story options in such a gigantic and awesome structure, before it reaches a finished state.

Just my two gold worth!

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: kanisatha] #722995
30/10/20 04:50 PM
30/10/20 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
But expecting an "evil path" to the main story, including some sort of evil ending, in a game that is set in the Forgotten Realms setting, is highly unrealistic. To put it bluntly, evil is just not going to end up "winning" in a Forgotten Realms game.


I'm sorry, but.. what? Many games set in Forgotten Realms have evil endings, including the original BG duo/trilogy! You could become a literal God of Murder, doesn't get more evil than that, in my book

Re: Open letter to Larian. How to fix the "evil path" [Re: RagnarokCzD] #723014
30/10/20 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
The situation with the player being aware of the tadpole while none of the evil people are is such a strange part of the narrative on Larian's part. I think that should be addressed too, so that the player is not signing up with people who know less about their precidament than they themselves do.


I have to agree; this is really stupid, and it makes following the evil path willingly also a stupid move. There is no point looking for help removing a tadpole from people who are tadpole denialists - evil characters are not always insane, they are generally selfish. Selfish means self-preservation is important, and there's nothing to indicate that siding with the goblins will increase your chances of self-preservation.


Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Why would any evil character wanted to get rid of something that is giving him benefits, especialy if he dont need to yet?


Because they are not brain-dead or insane, and can understand the concept of future negative consequences?

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