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Originally Posted by Topgoon
(hence probably why they had Kevin, the writer, pull down his stream where he "confirmed" many details). I don't love it as an EA player, but I can respect that as a viable approach from the development side.

Not to derail the thread entirely, but since I missed this one could you quickly summarize what kind of details he "confirmed"?


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Originally Posted by Creslin321
So my main issue with the arguments in the OP is that you could take the fact this is a video game completely out of it, and make these arguments against a tabletop D&D campaign, and they would still be considered silly arguments.

The main arguments as I see it are:

1. The stats of monsters in the game don’t match the monster manual.
I don’t think there’s a single experienced DM on the planet that doesn’t alter monster stats to suit their adventure. This is an extremely common thing to do. You don’t want every goblin in your game to feel like a carbon copy of one another.

2. I got a bunch of bad rolls in a row.
Yeah, it happens. Welcome to D&D.


I think my points were deeper than that. Shorten it to your level of comprehension if you need to, but even the bad dice rolls I pointed out were solved by by knowledge of D&D and the fact I was in caves without light and darkvision. NOW beyond that, I do still see a lot of straight misses when I have advantage on shots, my target is out in open and low armor (Gnoll fight anyone?). Its not a matter of bad rolls, its the rolling format not working right. You should hit half your shots statistically. Now I understand there are going to be times when you miss many times in a row, but with a +6 to hit AC 12-14 on a D20, my odds should be rrrrrrrreally good. Then there is the spell DC of 15 on my Shadowhart Sacred Flame more often than not saved against....on enemies with bane. So its a balance issue that needs to be addressed. I have read about it on these forums, which is why I posted something.

NOW I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU PLAYING A BARELLMANCER!!!! Knock yourself out, I dont need it removed from the game, BUT DO NOT ALTER THE ENEMIES from the source material to compensate for exploding barrels! My point and its clearly shared is that I do not want D:OS3. I want BG3, its what I paid for. D:OS1&2 were meh at best. I preferred POE honestly as at least deadfire was a little more piratey RP to make up for the stuff it lacked. We are early enough in EA to get what we want, if we act as a group. Stop defending lame shit and listen.

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According to Reddit mods, they were contacted by Larian to have all suggestions in 1 megathread and pretty much said they aren't reading anything else. So, there are most likely a lot of voices they just aren't hearing and I have to assume that extends to this forum as well. It would also be safe to assume that at any given moment, they are doing exactly what they intend to be doing. Development is rarely unintentional and is more of a bug situation than a holistic accident. In the almost month since it launched, what changes have you seen that bring it in line with the complaints being seen across the forums? None. Fine, claim its technical issues first. It does not change the fact there has been no community alignment. We can keep waiting and, until it changes, the fact will remain they are not aligning with the community and have at no point said they intend to be.

As far as I am concerned, these forums are a way for people who are playing BG3 to gather and shoot the shit with each other with, taken current circumstances, a most likely misplaced hope it is reaching them. This is a social club, I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but they are developing with intent and the EA is their current vision until we see or hear otherwise.

Last edited by Orbax; 30/10/20 06:48 PM.

What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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Originally Posted by Orbax
According to Reddit mods, they were contacted by Larian to have all suggestions in 1 megathread and pretty much said they aren't reading anything else. So, there are most likely a lot of voices they just aren't hearing and I have to assume that extends to this forum as well. It would also be safe to assume that at any given moment, they are doing exactly what they intend to be doing. Development is rarely unintentional and is more of a bug situation than a holistic accident. In the almost month since it launched, what changes have you seen that bring it in line with the complaints being seen across the forums? None. Fine, claim its technical issues first. It does not change the fact there has been no community alignment. We can keep waiting and, until it changes, the fact will remain they are not aligning with the community and have at no point said they intend to be.

As far as I am concerned, these forums are a way for people who are playing BG3 to gather and shoot the shit with each other with, taken current circumstances, a most likely misplaced hope it is reaching them. This is a social club, I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but they are developing with intent and the EA is their current vision until we see or hear otherwise.


Orbax, wouldn’t that be a thing directly to the feedback gathered in Reddit?
I mean, in Reddit the feedback will be gathered inside the megatreads but it doesn’t mean that Larian is getting feedback from a single source. Am I wrong ?

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Originally Posted by Vekkares
Originally Posted by Creslin321
So my main issue with the arguments in the OP is that you could take the fact this is a video game completely out of it, and make these arguments against a tabletop D&D campaign, and they would still be considered silly arguments.

The main arguments as I see it are:

1. The stats of monsters in the game don’t match the monster manual.
I don’t think there’s a single experienced DM on the planet that doesn’t alter monster stats to suit their adventure. This is an extremely common thing to do. You don’t want every goblin in your game to feel like a carbon copy of one another.

2. I got a bunch of bad rolls in a row.
Yeah, it happens. Welcome to D&D.


I think my points were deeper than that. Shorten it to your level of comprehension if you need to, but even the bad dice rolls I pointed out were solved by by knowledge of D&D and the fact I was in caves without light and darkvision. NOW beyond that, I do still see a lot of straight misses when I have advantage on shots, my target is out in open and low armor (Gnoll fight anyone?). Its not a matter of bad rolls, its the rolling format not working right. You should hit half your shots statistically. Now I understand there are going to be times when you miss many times in a row, but with a +6 to hit AC 12-14 on a D20, my odds should be rrrrrrrreally good. Then there is the spell DC of 15 on my Shadowhart Sacred Flame more often than not saved against....on enemies with bane. So its a balance issue that needs to be addressed. I have read about it on these forums, which is why I posted something.

NOW I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU PLAYING A BARELLMANCER!!!! Knock yourself out, I dont need it removed from the game, BUT DO NOT ALTER THE ENEMIES from the source material to compensate for exploding barrels! My point and its clearly shared is that I do not want D:OS3. I want BG3, its what I paid for. D:OS1&2 were meh at best. I preferred POE honestly as at least deadfire was a little more piratey RP to make up for the stuff it lacked. We are early enough in EA to get what we want, if we act as a group. Stop defending lame shit and listen.




You have a good point about there needing to be better indications that you have disadvantage and why. Other than that though....you’re still just complaining about bad rolls.

Look, I you have an 75% chance to hit something, those are good odds. But it’s still perfectly feasible that you miss 4 times in a row even with the odds. In fact, the chance of this happening is similar to the chance of rolling a natural 20 on one roll.

So just because you string of bad luck, doesn’t mean there’s some kind of flaw in the game. That’s just how randomness works.

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Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
According to Reddit mods, they were contacted by Larian to have all suggestions in 1 megathread and pretty much said they aren't reading anything else. So, there are most likely a lot of voices they just aren't hearing and I have to assume that extends to this forum as well. It would also be safe to assume that at any given moment, they are doing exactly what they intend to be doing. Development is rarely unintentional and is more of a bug situation than a holistic accident. In the almost month since it launched, what changes have you seen that bring it in line with the complaints being seen across the forums? None. Fine, claim its technical issues first. It does not change the fact there has been no community alignment. We can keep waiting and, until it changes, the fact will remain they are not aligning with the community and have at no point said they intend to be.

As far as I am concerned, these forums are a way for people who are playing BG3 to gather and shoot the shit with each other with, taken current circumstances, a most likely misplaced hope it is reaching them. This is a social club, I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but they are developing with intent and the EA is their current vision until we see or hear otherwise.


Orbax, wouldn’t that be a thing directly to the feedback gathered in Reddit?
I mean, in Reddit the feedback will be gathered inside the megatreads but it doesn’t mean that Larian is getting feedback from a single source. Am I wrong ?


Every forum, including this one, has a single megathread suggestion compendium. I would assume they would standardize their methodologies in all forums Steam, Reddit, Larian, and elsewhere to monitor a single thread that is meant to be pure suggestion feedback as opposed to memes, jokes, bugs, esoteric ramblings, and speculations as to whether they are they are the correct studio to be developing this. Instead of reading every random thread to its full extent and weeding through debates - go to the distilled source, the drop box. Maybe they do have an intern who takes a few xanax and muddles through it all but if I had to bet on where to go for the 90% thats quick, and you might miss out on the 10% that takes 50x longer to comb through, Id bet that they do what they have explicitly stated that they do for Reddit and go for the 90%. I can't think of a reason they'd have snowflake rules for every forum the monitor.

Like I said, maybe I am wrong. It would be cool to be in this case because all they've provided for us to date is a BG3 EA fanclub chatroom, not a forum where ideas are exchanged vertically with the ones running it. If someone came in right now and said "no, we totally read it!" we'd be like cool! Then the next update is stats mined from the the game and visible rolls for MP parties and some graphics fixes. Then we never hear from them again. So, it is what it is for the moment. Everyone is just hoping it becomes something else.

Last edited by Orbax; 30/10/20 07:09 PM.

What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Topgoon
(hence probably why they had Kevin, the writer, pull down his stream where he "confirmed" many details). I don't love it as an EA player, but I can respect that as a viable approach from the development side.

Not to derail the thread entirely, but since I missed this one could you quickly summarize what kind of details he "confirmed"?


No worries, this Reddit Thread sums it up.

I was actually on the stream and managed to ask about the "will you have to commit to companions like in DOS 2 (and the rest dies)" - and was happy to hear that (at that point), they weren't necessarily doing that yet. The other big detail at the time was "at least 8 companions, and potentially some not being origin"

Obviously, Kevin pulling the stream might mean nothing there is solid.

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Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Yeah no. They are translating pnp to a 3 d world, you want fully authentic pnp on the compute get tabletop simulator

"
- hey guys. We have to re-do it as a pen and paper game, ok ?
- but we keep the real time fights ?
- Dude ! Forget about real times. We love turn-based so it's gonna be turn-based !
- But it wont be as epic and flowing than before ?
- Who cares ! We did turn-based games, so we'll do it again ! Because this is how D&D worked !
- But with a computer we could recreate huge fights against hords of goblins, kobolds, gnolls,...
- Shut up Bobby ! It's gonna be turn-based, they will never be more than 5 ennemies and that's all !
- But what if we really need to have more than 5 ennemies ?
- I don't care Bobby ! Gamers will have to wait !
- Are you not afraid ti will be a little long and boring so ?
- I DONT CARE BOBBY I AM DOING THE GAME I WANT TO DO !!!



Man, you just painted my thoughts!

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Originally Posted by Topgoon
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Topgoon
(hence probably why they had Kevin, the writer, pull down his stream where he "confirmed" many details). I don't love it as an EA player, but I can respect that as a viable approach from the development side.

Not to derail the thread entirely, but since I missed this one could you quickly summarize what kind of details he "confirmed"?


No worries, this Reddit Thread sums it up.

I was actually on the stream and managed to ask about the "will you have to commit to companions like in DOS 2 (and the rest dies)" - and was happy to hear that (at that point), they weren't necessarily doing that yet. The other big detail at the time was "at least 8 companions, and potentially some not being origin"

Obviously, Kevin pulling the stream might mean nothing there is solid.

Ah, yes, I've heard about some of this stuff indirectly.
But to be fair there's a lot of "I don't know" there that I think people misunderstood.
For example when he says "I don't know if class X will be in EA" I don't think he's saying "This may not make it". I think he's literally saying "I have no clue, I'm a writer, taking care of that is not my job".


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Even the rule says says that strict adherence to the rules isn't the point of the game. the setting and rules as written are meant to be interpreted and adapted to your chosen setting.

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I'm glad someone enjoyed my parody ! laugh
Could write this kind of stuff all days ! ^^
Like...

" - Ok guys as you are all aware that in the reality there is a lot of... you know... how do you call it....
- containers ?
- Thx Bobby ! That's it, containers ! In real life, there is a lot of them, there are boxes, chests, bookcases, shelf, bags...
- Ok boss...
- So I just had an amazing idea. We are going to put a lot of containers ! But when I say a lot, I really mean it ! A LOOOOOOT !
- Ok and what will we put in it ?
- Nothing ! Who cares ?!
- Maybe the gamers who are going to open all of them ?
- And so ?
- it may be long, useless and boring ?
- It's REALITY Bobby, can't you get it ?!
- Sure boss, but...
- But WHAT Bobby ?!
- about the shelf with books sprites on it...
- WHO CARES BOBBY ?? This is a fucking game, not reality !
- But you just said...
- you're fired Bobby."

laugh

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i know it's a skit but i always assumed that the books or scrolls you find in a bookcase with sprites were the only ones of interest and in empty ones with sprites there just wasn't anything worth taking or reading.

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Originally Posted by Creslin321
Originally Posted by Vekkares
Originally Posted by Creslin321
So my main issue with the arguments in the OP is that you could take the fact this is a video game completely out of it, and make these arguments against a tabletop D&D campaign, and they would still be considered silly arguments.

The main arguments as I see it are:

1. The stats of monsters in the game don’t match the monster manual.
I don’t think there’s a single experienced DM on the planet that doesn’t alter monster stats to suit their adventure. This is an extremely common thing to do. You don’t want every goblin in your game to feel like a carbon copy of one another.

2. I got a bunch of bad rolls in a row.
Yeah, it happens. Welcome to D&D.


I think my points were deeper than that. Shorten it to your level of comprehension if you need to, but even the bad dice rolls I pointed out were solved by by knowledge of D&D and the fact I was in caves without light and darkvision. NOW beyond that, I do still see a lot of straight misses when I have advantage on shots, my target is out in open and low armor (Gnoll fight anyone?). Its not a matter of bad rolls, its the rolling format not working right. You should hit half your shots statistically. Now I understand there are going to be times when you miss many times in a row, but with a +6 to hit AC 12-14 on a D20, my odds should be rrrrrrrreally good. Then there is the spell DC of 15 on my Shadowhart Sacred Flame more often than not saved against....on enemies with bane. So its a balance issue that needs to be addressed. I have read about it on these forums, which is why I posted something.

NOW I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU PLAYING A BARELLMANCER!!!! Knock yourself out, I dont need it removed from the game, BUT DO NOT ALTER THE ENEMIES from the source material to compensate for exploding barrels! My point and its clearly shared is that I do not want D:OS3. I want BG3, its what I paid for. D:OS1&2 were meh at best. I preferred POE honestly as at least deadfire was a little more piratey RP to make up for the stuff it lacked. We are early enough in EA to get what we want, if we act as a group. Stop defending lame shit and listen.




You have a good point about there needing to be better indications that you have disadvantage and why. Other than that though....you’re still just complaining about bad rolls.

Look, I you have an 75% chance to hit something, those are good odds. But it’s still perfectly feasible that you miss 4 times in a row even with the odds. In fact, the chance of this happening is similar to the chance of rolling a natural 20 on one roll.

So just because you string of bad luck, doesn’t mean there’s some kind of flaw in the game. That’s just how randomness works.

Originally Posted by Creslin321
Originally Posted by Vekkares
Originally Posted by Creslin321
So my main issue with the arguments in the OP is that you could take the fact this is a video game completely out of it, and make these arguments against a tabletop D&D campaign, and they would still be considered silly arguments.

The main arguments as I see it are:

1. The stats of monsters in the game don’t match the monster manual.
I don’t think there’s a single experienced DM on the planet that doesn’t alter monster stats to suit their adventure. This is an extremely common thing to do. You don’t want every goblin in your game to feel like a carbon copy of one another.

2. I got a bunch of bad rolls in a row.
Yeah, it happens. Welcome to D&D.


I think my points were deeper than that. Shorten it to your level of comprehension if you need to, but even the bad dice rolls I pointed out were solved by by knowledge of D&D and the fact I was in caves without light and darkvision. NOW beyond that, I do still see a lot of straight misses when I have advantage on shots, my target is out in open and low armor (Gnoll fight anyone?). Its not a matter of bad rolls, its the rolling format not working right. You should hit half your shots statistically. Now I understand there are going to be times when you miss many times in a row, but with a +6 to hit AC 12-14 on a D20, my odds should be rrrrrrrreally good. Then there is the spell DC of 15 on my Shadowhart Sacred Flame more often than not saved against....on enemies with bane. So its a balance issue that needs to be addressed. I have read about it on these forums, which is why I posted something.

NOW I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU PLAYING A BARELLMANCER!!!! Knock yourself out, I dont need it removed from the game, BUT DO NOT ALTER THE ENEMIES from the source material to compensate for exploding barrels! My point and its clearly shared is that I do not want D:OS3. I want BG3, its what I paid for. D:OS1&2 were meh at best. I preferred POE honestly as at least deadfire was a little more piratey RP to make up for the stuff it lacked. We are early enough in EA to get what we want, if we act as a group. Stop defending lame shit and listen.




You have a good point about there needing to be better indications that you have disadvantage and why. Other than that though....you’re still just complaining about bad rolls.

Look, I you have an 75% chance to hit something, those are good odds. But it’s still perfectly feasible that you miss 4 times in a row even with the odds. In fact, the chance of this happening is similar to the chance of rolling a natural 20 on one roll.

So just because you string of bad luck, doesn’t mean there’s some kind of flaw in the game. That’s just how randomness works.

Originally Posted by Creslin321
Originally Posted by Vekkares
Originally Posted by Creslin321
So my main issue with the arguments in the OP is that you could take the fact this is a video game completely out of it, and make these arguments against a tabletop D&D campaign, and they would still be considered silly arguments.

The main arguments as I see it are:

1. The stats of monsters in the game don’t match the monster manual.
I don’t think there’s a single experienced DM on the planet that doesn’t alter monster stats to suit their adventure. This is an extremely common thing to do. You don’t want every goblin in your game to feel like a carbon copy of one another.

2. I got a bunch of bad rolls in a row.
Yeah, it happens. Welcome to D&D.


I think my points were deeper than that. Shorten it to your level of comprehension if you need to, but even the bad dice rolls I pointed out were solved by by knowledge of D&D and the fact I was in caves without light and darkvision. NOW beyond that, I do still see a lot of straight misses when I have advantage on shots, my target is out in open and low armor (Gnoll fight anyone?). Its not a matter of bad rolls, its the rolling format not working right. You should hit half your shots statistically. Now I understand there are going to be times when you miss many times in a row, but with a +6 to hit AC 12-14 on a D20, my odds should be rrrrrrrreally good. Then there is the spell DC of 15 on my Shadowhart Sacred Flame more often than not saved against....on enemies with bane. So its a balance issue that needs to be addressed. I have read about it on these forums, which is why I posted something.

NOW I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU PLAYING A BARELLMANCER!!!! Knock yourself out, I dont need it removed from the game, BUT DO NOT ALTER THE ENEMIES from the source material to compensate for exploding barrels! My point and its clearly shared is that I do not want D:OS3. I want BG3, its what I paid for. D:OS1&2 were meh at best. I preferred POE honestly as at least deadfire was a little more piratey RP to make up for the stuff it lacked. We are early enough in EA to get what we want, if we act as a group. Stop defending lame shit and listen.




You have a good point about there needing to be better indications that you have disadvantage and why. Other than that though....you’re still just complaining about bad rolls.

Look, I you have an 75% chance to hit something, those are good odds. But it’s still perfectly feasible that you miss 4 times in a row even with the odds. In fact, the chance of this happening is similar to the chance of rolling a natural 20 on one roll.

So just because you string of bad luck, doesn’t mean there’s some kind of flaw in the game. That’s just how randomness works.


Lol maybe you don’t understand math? A 75% chance is 3 out of 4. If it missed occasionally, yes it’s just bad rolls. You’re focused on one example I have given. This is consistent. Again I brought up having bad nights at the table, but I’m IN THIS GAME, there is an issue with the balance. It’s skewed on the low side. I have played enough to know when it’s bad rolls and bad roll engine. Roll20 and Beyond DND has this issue for a little while. There is a problem, beyond one example. Good lord man, sometimes you gotta think for yourself.

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I'd like to ask everyone's opinion about the currently "very positive" rating on Steam. Isn't that an indicator that we have the famous vocal minority here?

Last edited by Gigantoad; 30/10/20 10:41 PM.
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Speaking purely for myself, I gave it a high rating. Im just annoyed that they invited community involvement and then ignored it. If it was "you get what you fuckers, thanks for the cash, report bugs tho thx!" I, at least, would be less frustrated. The expectations v reality meme-potential for the relationship is high. Throughout life, you will be the most frustrated when you think you can make a difference, SHOULD make a difference, and you can't.

Last edited by Orbax; 30/10/20 10:45 PM.

What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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Originally Posted by Gigantoad
I'd like to ask everyone's opinion about the currently "very positive" rating on Steam. Isn't that an indicator that we have the famous vocal minority here?

The fact that a game is good doesn't mean it can't be better. I'm (and I assume a lot of us are) arguing that the game-as-is will be fine, enjoyable, but would be so much better (Overwhelmingly Positive) if Larian moved in a more D&D-rules-as-written direction. Or at least if they gave us the option to play with stricter 5e rules via difficulty settings.

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Originally Posted by Orbax
Speaking purely for myself, I gave it a high rating. Im just annoyed that they invited community involvement and then ignored it. If it was "you get what you fuckers, thanks for the cash, report bugs tho thx!" I, at least, would be less frustrated. The expectations v reality meme-potential for the relationship is high. Throughout life, you will be the most frustrated when you think you can make a difference, SHOULD make a difference, and you can't.


That’s what annoys me the most. Cash grabbing without the trade off? I didn’t bought the game. I invested in it. Those two things are very distinct.
“Gimme your money cause I know whats the best for ya”

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Originally Posted by Gigantoad
I'd like to ask everyone's opinion about the currently "very positive" rating on Steam. Isn't that an indicator that we have the famous vocal minority here?

I mean, I have a generally "very positive" impression of the game as well.
It doesn't mean that I can't think some aspects of it right now stink and should absolutely be addressed to make it better.

I know I would play (and probably even enjoy to an extent) the final game even if it came out with all the flaws it has now.

But I think we can hope for something better than "Meh, it's ok I guess". This could be a genuine classic with the right adjustments.


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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Gigantoad
I'd like to ask everyone's opinion about the currently "very positive" rating on Steam. Isn't that an indicator that we have the famous vocal minority here?

I mean, I have a generally "very positive" impression of the game as well.
It doesn't mean that I can't think some aspects of it right now stink and should absolutely be addressed to make it better.

I know I would play (and probably even enjoy to an extent) the final game even if it came out with all the flaws it has now.

But I think we can hope for something better than "Meh, it's ok I guess". This could be a genuine classic with the right adjustments.


After all, a 6 is above the average on a 0-10 scale

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I'm really sry but the more time goes, the more I am deceived by the game. I wont say it's a bad game but it feels more and more... generic, just fine.

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