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Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Can they just indefinitely conjure food with no input cost though?


I mean, in tabletop D&D they certainly could. Who knows in Baldur's Gate 3.

Edit: Side note. Why does Goodberry say "up to ten berries" but apparently it's the player's choice? Who is gonna cast it and be like "no thanks, I'd only like 4 berries please"?

Last edited by Firesnakearies; 30/10/20 06:31 PM.
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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
That many druids should easily be able to make enough goodberries to feed all those refugees with no real strain.


If there really is only a dozen or so tieflings you'd be right, but populations are almost always dramatically scaled down in video games.

Plus Goodberry needs spell slots and we also see the druids making heavy use of Talk to Animal and Cure Wound as part of their regular druid duties. Any magic going into feeding and healing the tieflings is magic that can't be used to deal with the day to day maintenance of the grove and the surrounding wilderness and populace.

Not to mention they need those spell slots to fight too. The grove has been getting harassed by various monsters ever since the tieflings showed up. Feeding the tieflings literally makes it harder for the druids to defend their home. As anyone who's played a Moon Druid and had to sacrifice a perfectly healthy wildshape form to cast goodberry to save a party member can attest to.

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Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
[quote=Firesnakearies]
Not to mention they need those spell slots to fight too. The grove has been getting harassed by various monsters ever since the tieflings showed up. Feeding the tieflings literally makes it harder for the druids to defend their home. As anyone who's played a Moon Druid and had to sacrifice a perfectly healthy wildshape form to cast goodberry to save a party member can attest to.


Based on what I've seen, the Druids aren't even doing the defending. It's the Tieflings actually fighting, the Druids are hiding.

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lets not forget Kagha is a Shadow Druid and had turned most of the grove to her side (read: xenophobic, exclusionist, insular) well before Halsin left and was probably planning to coup de grace his ass and then he left and she just proclaimed herself the new Archdruid and got the Rite started.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

Based on what I've seen, the Druids aren't even doing the defending. It's the Tieflings actually fighting, the Druids are hiding.


That's because like half the druids are working on Kagha's ritual. Before she started up that ritual there would've been druids defending the place.

Plus if you go down that secret passage you find a druid who had been captured by goblins while patrolling. That same passage also has a statue that shoots fireballs and other traps the druids set up.

Originally Posted by Milani
lets not forget Kagha is a Shadow Druid and had turned most of the grove to her side (read: xenophobic, exclusionist, insular) well before Halsin left and was probably planning to coup de grace his ass and then he left and she just proclaimed herself the new Archdruid and got the Rite started.



I don't think Kagha ever wanted to overthrow Halsin. When he returns she pretty meekly accepts her punishment of being downgraded to a novice.

Kagha us certainly being influenced by the shadow druids but I don't think she is full fledged in their camp quite yet either.She was just scared and looking for an easy escape from the grove's problems. She also probably thought Halsin was dead and not coming back.

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Continuously conjuring food and water clearly upsets the natural balance of the world.

Goodberries are a different matter. They're just magically nutritious and requires real berries to turn into good berries.

But really I think most druids should not be classed Druids if you know what I'm saying. People able to cast cantrips and maybe ritual magic at best.


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Originally Posted by Dexai
Continuously conjuring food and water clearly upsets the natural balance of the world.

Goodberries are a different matter. They're just magically nutritious and requires real berries to turn into good berries.

But really I think most druids should not be classed Druids if you know what I'm saying. People able to cast cantrips and maybe ritual magic at best.

Which is the likely reality for the vast majority of magically talented people. Characters with adventuring classes are exceedingly rare in universe. Even running across a level 5 anything is pretty rare. That first chapter does a good job at showing the best of "mundane" D&D. I think we're in for a wild af ride.

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From what Halsin himself tells you after you defeat the goblins and recruit him the Grove had deep internal political issues running well before the nautiloid crash and the goblin incursion.

If you speak with the druids after you defeat the goblins and allow the tiefling refugees to depart peacefully, almost a third of them will voice their unhappiness that you changed Kagha's mind (joining the Shadow Druids) and that Halsin return is not going to improve things because they want complete rejection of outsiders


I think it's fair to say Halsin is not great at politics (and being an ex adventurer that might actually be reasonable) and a let issues fester so much that more than a few druids started considering joining the shadow faction. This is not to say Halsin is evil, he's just not perfect and considering his later actions he was probably not well suited for a leadership role.

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Halsin is like Conan. He's happy when he's out kicking ass. Super bored when you put him on a throne.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Halsin is like Conan. He's happy when he's out kicking ass. Super bored when you put him on a throne.


Like Robert Baratheon then? There goes my PC's hopes and dreams - he might get fat too...

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Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by Callimachus
I still can't get over him slaughtering the goblin children. That is not the action of a good or even neutral person.


He's a Druid. Circle of life.


No. Circle of life in nature means you kill in order to eat, or when you are threatened, not for sport.

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Originally Posted by Callimachus
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by Callimachus
I still can't get over him slaughtering the goblin children. That is not the action of a good or even neutral person.


He's a Druid. Circle of life.


No. Circle of life in nature means you kill in order to eat, or when you are threatened, not for sport.


Well he did kill them in bear (well TBH he killed one, I killed the other) form and warns you he cannot surpress his rage when seeing a goblin in that form. He was held captive there for quite some time, stoned and possibly seen the dwarf hacked to pieces since the butcher is in the same room, sooooo

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Originally Posted by Azarielle
Originally Posted by Callimachus
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by Callimachus
I still can't get over him slaughtering the goblin children. That is not the action of a good or even neutral person.


He's a Druid. Circle of life.


No. Circle of life in nature means you kill in order to eat, or when you are threatened, not for sport.


Well he did kill them in bear (well TBH he killed one, I killed the other) form and warns you he cannot surpress his rage when seeing a goblin in that form. He was held captive there for quite some time, stoned and possibly seen the dwarf hacked to pieces since the butcher is in the same room, sooooo



"Your honour! Yes, I did kill the two children, but in my defence, I was drunk!"

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"What does a dragon even eat?"

"Whatever it wants."

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Originally Posted by Callimachus
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by Callimachus
I still can't get over him slaughtering the goblin children. That is not the action of a good or even neutral person.


He's a Druid. Circle of life.


No. Circle of life in nature means you kill in order to eat, or when you are threatened, not for sport.


Ahem... the goblin children are throwing Halsin/bear stones with the express purpose to cause him pain. The goblins mention loudly they plan on feeding him to the worgs. AND actually Halsin is not guaranteed to kill the goblin children. He kills the grown goblin near the cage but then the 2 children have a good chance of escaping (disengae without causing AoOs and then dash).

Personally I see no issue with Halsin reacting the way he does as the little sadists express delight at the suffering of other living beings.

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Yeah, all evidence we see in this game shows that even these goblin children, which seem more like goblin adolescents, are already murderous psychopaths.

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Quote
"Your honour! Yes, I did kill the two children, but in my defence, I was drunk!"


Try with: "your honour I was held captive with no food or drink, stoned, watched as they hacked my companion to pieces to roast on a spit, while they planned to feed me to dogs."

I for one think that's a pretty legit excuse to kill anything on your way out while escaping, but that's just me, you obviously don't hold grudges - very christian of you.

Last edited by Azarielle; 31/10/20 07:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Yeah, all evidence we see in this game shows that even these goblin children, which seem more like goblin adolescents, are already murderous psychopaths.


Pretty much. Goblins have a deep sadistic streak. We see goblin kids in the camp who have tortured a person to death. For funsies.

They may be children but they aren't exactly innocent. Goblins function on an entirely different system of morality than the non-evil aligned races.

That said I still feel bad for having to kill them, but it very much is self defense at that point.

Last edited by SaurianDruid; 01/11/20 02:43 AM.
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I don't think a goblin HAS to be evil. Like, I don't think it's literally baked into their DNA. But a goblin who is raised among normal goblin society is almost certainly going to be evil. If some good and kind people raised a goblin in a loving, nurturing, moral environment, they could probably be just as good as anyone else.

But the goblins we see in BG3 are absolute shitlords, even the kids.

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Yah, goblins CAN be good. It is just highly unusual and counter to their culture. A good goblin is like a good drow. Unlikely but not physically impossible.

I don't know if they have the inherent pull to evil orcs have either. But they definitely aren't like gnolls that are just balls of hate in fur suits.

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