Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Another thing that is a bit annoying is that every playthrough starts the same way and the paths dont really diverge until much further ahead, I am a bit sick of playing the nautiloid level again and again when the results dont vary, there isnt substantial loot or any decision making that changes your playthrough. You cant even keep the brain as a pet.
If we think about good dnd games or modules, some characters start or join in at different parts of the story, that could be according to the class you choose...

Joined: Jul 2017
C
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Jul 2017
The absolute feels exactly like God king: big evil blob with a cultist you can join to immediately become evil with a railroaded evil path.

Joined: Feb 2015
S
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
S
Joined: Feb 2015
Originally Posted by drimaxus
Another thing that is a bit annoying is that every playthrough starts the same way and the paths dont really diverge until much further ahead, I am a bit sick of playing the nautiloid level again and again when the results dont vary, there isnt substantial loot or any decision making that changes your playthrough. You cant even keep the brain as a pet.
If we think about good dnd games or modules, some characters start or join in at different parts of the story, that could be according to the class you choose...

+1
Maybe there is a resource contention, but as some point I thought there was a deliverable to Wizards of the Coast. Is this story the accepted one by Wizards or was it just a licensing purchase ?
I was hoping Mike Mearls and the gang would have some involvement here or help shape the D&D side of things. I am a supporter of this game, but am just hoping for a better story and character development.
I am even willing to donate the content. In the end I want the game to succeed and want to enjoy playing it.

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
I can play this game: you are a prisoner in some unknown location. You try to find a way out, and you find yourself in a new and unknown place. You meet your companions and has to find out whoever did this to you.

Another - you are on a ship, you have to escape, and afterwards you find yourself in a new and unknown place. You need to find someone and a way out.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Feb 2015
S
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
S
Joined: Feb 2015
Not 100% sure if you are for a vanilla story, like it is not a big deal or you are re-enforcing the OP.
Either way thanks for the feedback.

Joined: Oct 2020
T
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
T
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE


Right on.
+1
I could write that narrative in this forum:

Physic voice " Do not be afraid, we may seem like the monsters you heard of, but are only attempting to save our race. Dramatic pause ... "You know, We are the most powerful and most feared of all sentients, and soon you will know that power " "When you are ready, reach out and we will begin your training"


Yeah, that works!

Another random thought I had with this set-up was that this might be an interesting moment to introduce the dream person. If the Dream Person is what helps you escape here, it'll go a long way to giving it credibility and listening to it more enticing. Although Larian's sort of done that with Divinity 2 (the original, Dragonknight game).

To make the choice even more ambiguous, you can even add a knowledge check when you meeting Lae'zel (Arcana?) to let you identify her as a Githyanki and their reputation.

Last edited by Topgoon; 31/10/20 07:00 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020

SPOILERS

Role playing fixed roles (origin) is readng from a script not writing your own and was my biggest bugbare about divinity. I mean it's okay and Larian do it well but you are the avatar not the sidekick and being dragged down a linear path in an RPG is tedious. Even the choices are yes/no with dice rolls for fight/not are still either/or. I much prefer starting as a blacksmith or someone not "touched by divinity" to rule/destroy....bored now. These brain maggots are the same "god touched" McGuffin paradigm and has become derivative af.

Become powerful though discovery, adventure and hardwork not be given a no choice scenario. You must find a cure, no thanks I would much rather go to Baulders gate and join a guild. Oh wait the tadpoles are impossible to remove without another hamstrug task (EITHER above OR below) a druid somehow knows about and feels he must come long because by chance he needs to investigate an area that he theorises exists. Although these brain thingies are unheard of he absolutely knows for a fact those responsible are over there somewhere and he needs them to understand how to remove said McGuffin. No mate I just saved the grove from goblins and a bunch of other shit now there are extra strings attached? Nope, "looks like meat's back on the menu bois" CHOP!!

Lae'zel mentions she has faught lairs of beholders on the plane and gith warriors must bring the head of an illithid (she must hunt alone) to even be classed in the military caste. All this and you start as a new born baby. You kill a single beholder and you are level 6 from birth, same with illithids. Illithids are badarse CR 7-8 and beholders are absolutely crazy tough CR 13-14. A young red dragon what the gith dragon riders fly is CR-10. Killing one beholder is 11500xp. Bare in mind CR (challenge rating) is based off and entire group of adventurers.

You cannot give backstories like that and expect people to accept she has never left the barracks aka LV1. Master wizard with the ability to cast magic missiles and a few cantrips. 200 year old vampire noob. Blade of whatever (idk I hate this idiot) hero of his own imagination because he has never apparently left his moms basement. Cleric of Shar......and you, no backstory, no history and apparently just along for the ride. Why were you chosen to lead the group? No gith warrior is going to accept a lesser being as leader. Must make the current paradigm make sense at least a little.

Joined: Oct 2020
R
addict
Offline
addict
R
Joined: Oct 2020
The BG series has always been a story about the "chosen".
I like that this time we don't start by killing rats, you don't have to start the story always by being nobody.
And the fact that the campaign is intended for characters with a higher level does not matter. A good story shouldn't be limited by mechanics.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Yeah well, Larian is hardly the worst offender in reusing themes and settings.

[img]http://gallery.burrowowl.net/images/91/91fced37510a6e86c51bec002455e163[/img]

Last edited by DistantStranger; 31/10/20 08:15 PM.
Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
Originally Posted by DistantStranger
Yeah well, Larian is hardly the worst offender in reusing themes and settings.

[img]http://gallery.burrowowl.net/images/91/91fced37510a6e86c51bec002455e163[/img]

+1.
I can oversimplify every fantasy story and show you how they are all the same OP


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Being a Sourcerer wasn't an ailment. It was a super power that normal people came to fear so a new religion sprouted up that believed Source had to be "cured", but it was never presented that way to the player.

The tadpole is actually more spiritually similar to being a Bhaalspawn like the older games. It is a dark power that threatens to transform you into something evil, but its seductive powers are too convenient to pass up. It even comes with special dream sequences where you wake up with more abilities unlocked. I imagine wanting to capture that same "you're infected with great power; what do you do?" story the original games had was part of why they chose this story beat.

As for the ship, I think Larian just wants that to be the calling card of their games. A little trope they adore and want to use in different ways whenever they go to make an RPG similar to how in most Elder Scrolls games you start off as a prisoner. Plus it beats "you and your party meet at a tavern" as far as giving your characters a sense of dramatic urgency goes.


Last edited by SaurianDruid; 31/10/20 08:22 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Soul-Scar

Lae'zel mentions she has faught lairs of beholders on the plane and gith warriors must bring the head of an illithid (she must hunt alone) to even be classed in the military caste. All this and you start as a new born baby. You kill a single beholder and you are level 6 from birth, same with illithids. Illithids are badarse CR 7-8 and beholders are absolutely crazy tough CR 13-14. A young red dragon what the gith dragon riders fly is CR-10. Killing one beholder is 11500xp. Bare in mind CR (challenge rating) is based off and entire group of adventurers.



Just saw this. Dunno what the rules are about double posting but I wanted to point out that Lae'zel admits she's never visited the Astral Realm before, which means she probably hasn't completed her rite of passage by slaying a mind flayer yet.

The PC can talk about the Githyanki city in dialogue so your PC can actually be older and more experienced than she is. It also shows if you let her interact with the Gith dragon-knight vs you doing it. Your character is a lot more well versed in Githyanki society than she is and won't insult the dragon-rider the way she accidentally does.

Lae'zel talks a big game but she's actually pretty young and inexperienced. I'd say she's probably the best of the companions for being a 1st level fighter. Fresh from her Creche and abducted by Ilithids and now terrified she'll die long before she can prove herself worthy.


Also, having killed cool monsters in your backstory is pretty common for DnD PCs. Especially as part of a larger group. Not everyone was a dirt farmer before they took up adventuring. And Hell, by your logic it should be impossible to make a level 1 Githyanki at all.

Last edited by SaurianDruid; 31/10/20 08:31 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
The BG series has always been a story about the "chosen".
I like that this time we don't start by killing rats, you don't have to start the story always by being nobody.
And the fact that the campaign is intended for characters with a higher level does not matter. A good story shouldn't be limited by mechanics.


Well you kill better than rats at the beginning of BG2 and I don't even mention ToB !
I don't think it' about mechanics, I think it's about realism (even if I personnaly don't really care at the moment).

Joined: Oct 2020
R
addict
Offline
addict
R
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
The BG series has always been a story about the "chosen".
I like that this time we don't start by killing rats, you don't have to start the story always by being nobody.
And the fact that the campaign is intended for characters with a higher level does not matter. A good story shouldn't be limited by mechanics.


Well you kill better than rats at the beginning of BG2 and I don't even mention ToB !
I don't think it' about mechanics, I think it's about realism (even if I personnaly don't really care at the moment).


I meant BG1, in BG2 we started from a higher level.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
Originally Posted by Soul-Scar

Lae'zel mentions she has faught lairs of beholders on the plane and gith warriors must bring the head of an illithid (she must hunt alone) to even be classed in the military caste. All this and you start as a new born baby. You kill a single beholder and you are level 6 from birth, same with illithids. Illithids are badarse CR 7-8 and beholders are absolutely crazy tough CR 13-14. A young red dragon what the gith dragon riders fly is CR-10. Killing one beholder is 11500xp. Bare in mind CR (challenge rating) is based off and entire group of adventurers.



Just saw this. Dunno what the rules are about double posting but I wanted to point out that Lae'zel admits she's never visited the Astral Realm before, which means she probably hasn't completed her rite of passage by slaying a mind flayer yet.

The PC can talk about the Githyanki city in dialogue so your PC can actually be older and more experienced than she is. It also shows if you let her interact with the Gith dragon-knight vs you doing it. Your character is a lot more well versed in Githyanki society than she is and won't insult the dragon-rider the way she accidentally does.

Lae'zel talks a big game but she's actually pretty young and inexperienced. I'd say she's probably the best of the companions for being a 1st level fighter. Fresh from her Creche and abducted by Ilithids and now terrified she'll die long before she can prove herself worthy.


Also, having killed cool monsters in your backstory is pretty common for DnD PCs. Especially as part of a larger group. Not everyone was a dirt farmer before they took up adventuring. And Hell, by your logic it should be impossible to make a level 1 Githyanki at all.


No not really as there are 3 castes in the gith and 2 of those aren't military, quite possible for a member of the lower caste to be a lv 1 fighter. You simply cannot be a level one character and have killed a beholder, end of story. Lae'zel is a good character and well voice acted and by far one of the more interesting of the bunch.

She cannot possibly "have never left the astral plane" because she is an adult, you don't age on the astral plane that's why creche are in the material realm. She has jeweled armor, the sign of being part of the miliary caste....I could go on. I am point out facts in D&D lore not couldawudashuda. If I see something out of place or doesn't make sense I am going to say so. Ok explain a 200 year old vampire rogue newb? Not conjecture either.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Soul-Scar

No not really as there are 3 castes in the gith and 2 of those aren't military, quite possible for a member of the lower caste to be a lv 1 fighter. You simply cannot be a level one character and have killed a beholder, end of story. Lae'zel is a good character and well voice acted and by far one of the more interesting of the bunch.

She cannot possibly "have never left the astral plane" because she is an adult, you don't age on the astral plane that's why creche are in the material realm. She has jeweled armor, the sign of being part of the miliary caste....I could go on. I am point out facts in D&D lore not couldawudashuda. If I see something out of place or doesn't make sense I am going to say so. Ok explain a 200 year old vampire rogue newb? Not conjecture either.




There is no "end of story" in DnD. Everything is up to the DM, even the rules as written. What is acceptable for a first level character at one table might not be at another. Personally if a player wanted to have been involved in a big fight against beholders I'd be fine with it as long as they didn't claim to 1v1 them. I've not gotten the specific beholder dialogue yet, but the way you phrased it sounded like she was fighting alongside others from her Creche, not soloing them all.

You misunderstood. She hasn't "never left the astral plane". She's never been TO the astral plane. She says she longs to one day visit it. This means she has not performed her rite of passage. She hasn't proven herself worthy of it yet, which is a big part of her character.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Funyn I was reading the last comment when Wyll spoke to me about his reputation and dragons, etc...
It's true I can't believe this guy can be this famous with THIS level xD

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Funyn I was reading the last comment when Wyll spoke to me about his reputation and dragons, etc...
It's true I can't believe this guy can be this famous with THIS level xD


Wyll and Gale talk about not being as powerful as they used to be because of the tadpole messing with their magic. Playing a once mighty being who was brought low by circumstance and must build themselves back up is a somewhat common PC background.

I'm also not entirely sure Wyll is being honest about his achievements. He very much comes off as someone desperate to be a seen as a hero. So desperate he made a pact with an evil being for the power he needed to become a noteworthy hero in the first place.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
It can be such a "trick" of the developers, to start all games from the ship that is wrecked. Why not, I liked it.
In any case, no one will completely rewrite the first act. They did a lot of work and this deserves respect.
But to make the first act better within the existing scenario - for this we are here

Joined: Oct 2020
C
CMF Offline
member
Offline
member
C
Joined: Oct 2020
The similarities between DOS2 and BG3 story start are reminiscent of each other, but not the way you described.

Abducted
Held prisoner
Controlling device placed on the playable characters
First objective is to remove the controlling devices
Discover that you have powers or connection to gods or some sort of greater good
Bigger story arch begins

Beyond that, it seems like elements of the old BG games will help drive the story as far as old gods or cults still around trying to complete what they failed to do, but that is all theory talk on the forums so far.
While I did notice those similarities, I was able to look past them and continue playing. The rest of the game felt less like DOS2 as I continued, but that comes down to opinion at that rate. The start for sure is inspired/imitates the driving force to motivate your characters with a sense of urgency and maybe could have been better adapted to not feel so similar? Or maybe it is fine. Like it was said above, that could be the calling card like Elder Scrolls prisoner starts, or the classic D&D "you meet in a pub" adventure beginnings. Those are all fairly trite, so pick your poison.

As far as the companion characters being more interesting than you. It seems to be the case that you can pick from the pre-generated characters and then continue the story, or create a custom character.

In the event you pick a pre-generated character, they fleshed out an elaborate story so that if you play them, you have a driving force and motive to RP behind them. Additionally, if you are not playing any of those characters, now they have a compelling side quest to accomplish and a history/persona that you can decide who you want to RP with and invite to your group (or just pick based on group/class requirements).

The case with the custom character being bland. Larian did not write a compelling side quest narrative for the character "you" create. They could have put together a generic "you are a famous soldier traveling the lands when you were abducted by the mind flayers" or "you just escaped jail for stealing money from the local lord and you are on the run and then abducted" or any sort of generic line, after that the quest/story becomes about the fact that you are destined for greatness with these tadpole worms.

Instead Larian decided, that people who make custom characters often create RP backstories on their own and left it to you. They could have created a generic backstory based on the character creator choices and if you choose acolyte or urchin or guild artisan, but those would all be throw away stories and still less unique than any of the pre-generated characters.

All of these design choices make total sense and help provide choice to the player. Yet we as players seem to not like the choices and we want to be told how special we are and specific ways.....

You are more than welcome to play as your own or as a pre-generated character. The pre-generated will be better as you can pick the stats, the custom ones you have to deal with what is hard-programed in. Unless they allow for a re-spec after the first act, like in DOS2. I have a feeling people will freak out if they do that and cite more reasons this is DOS3 and not adhering to 5e and what not.

Last edited by CMF; 31/10/20 09:50 PM.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5