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I'm so far interested in the Shadowheart, Astarion and Laezel and possibly Minthara.
Shadowheart provides that challenge to open up a cagey character type path, even if a cliche choice. Plus the VA does a good job at portraying a transparent coyness used as a defense mechanism.

Astarion, I love. He uses flirtations and words as a defense and tool, but is also just about getting as much amusement out of situations as he can (can relate)-We were definitely thinking the same thing about the resolution of the hag quest and getting that wand. But he also suffers from the doubt/anxiety of Cazador's reach.

Laezel, honestly just because its funny the lines you get from her when you romance her and I am curious where that goes and the dynamics of it playing out.

Minthara, There is not a lot interesting about her yet in EA. If you lay with her after taking the goblin side of the grove assault there is an option to try to look into her mind and learn more about her, possible character development in that area when/if she is encountered later is of interest.

Gale, charming words but his plight regarding his background is less intriguing to me.
Wyll, I will help him get his demon lady back, but possibility of heartfelt discussions about caring for a demon or the nature of the allure of power or whatever he might entail after his wall of bravado is brought down kinda not very interesting.

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Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I like the romances as they're done now and don't really need them expanded out.
I'd rather see resources put into even more regular interactions and conversations with my companions that comment on what's going on in the moment than play a mini-game where I have to say the right thing to get the approval of a pile of pixels with the hopes that I get an awkward cutscene of plastic bodies tangled together like I'm at the Twister National Championships for Action Figures.


Err, twister national olympics can happen regardless of romance. laugh

Here's proof:
[Linked Image]


Wow, nightmare fuel. Necks don't work that way. eek


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

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Originally Posted by Tzelanit
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I like the romances as they're done now and don't really need them expanded out.
I'd rather see resources put into even more regular interactions and conversations with my companions that comment on what's going on in the moment than play a mini-game where I have to say the right thing to get the approval of a pile of pixels with the hopes that I get an awkward cutscene of plastic bodies tangled together like I'm at the Twister National Championships for Action Figures.


Err, twister national olympics can happen regardless of romance. laugh

Here's proof:
[Linked Image]


Wow, nightmare fuel. Necks don't work that way. eek

Ceremorphis already started to give that invertibrate flexibility

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Originally Posted by Linnea
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.


At least because you need to do evil things to get Astarion's approval. If you do what he doesn't like (good actions), you won't get approval and you won't have romance... So how he will change if you need to do evil actions?
So if he can change in other way, like ‘not approved’ way, it’s stupid. Cuz Wyll, for example, doesn't get evil, he just walks away from you if he don’t like your choice. This is logical.


Originally Posted by Vamathi
Pretty sure, if you go ahead and tease him a little it doesn't matter. I definitely romanced him on neutral and mid approval.



And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...

edit: I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Linnea
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.


At least because you need to do evil things to get Astarion's approval. If you do what he doesn't like (good actions), you won't get approval and you won't have romance... So how he will change if you need to do evil actions?
So if he can change in other way, like ‘not approved’ way, it’s stupid. Cuz Wyll, for example, doesn't get evil, he just walks away from you if he don’t like your choice. This is logical.


Originally Posted by Vamathi
Pretty sure, if you go ahead and tease him a little it doesn't matter. I definitely romanced him on neutral and mid approval.



And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...



I generally like evil characters, or characters that don't normally go along with what the main character does and do not get a "redemption" arc. I know Neverwinter Nights 2 was hugely unfinished, but I loved Bishop's character for this reason. He was so unapologetically evil and messed up that no matter what you did he'd still betray you. And I thought all those mods giving him redemption and a happily ever after did not do him justice, turning a cool character into a misunderstood woobie in need of saving. That said Astarion seems different to me. Sure, he is evil and approves of some evil actions, but does not seem to be completely far gone. I might be wrong though... It would be interesting to see. I don't necessarily want a redemption arc for him but more an ability to coexist without falling into an evil for the lulz route.

Edit: @OP thanks so much for creating this thread. <3 Make love not war grin

Last edited by Arideya; 01/11/20 08:03 PM.

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In my opinion a redemption arc would fit depending on his past. As it was not full revealed yet, and things can be rewritten, it's hard to come to a conclusion. I would prefer at least to be optional cuz I like some bad boy romance devil (not irl ofc)

edit: Arideya posted my thoughts better than me, I totally agree grin
Bishop <3

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Originally Posted by Vamathi

I disagree with most of them being manipulative.

I haven't romanced Shadowheart, but I did reveal her secret and had her in my party for several playthroughs and I do not find her manipulative. Very secretive and likely to bacstab you? Propably, but honestly - all of the characters are. And I really like it because it invites some interesting dynamics and so much potential for gazillion playthroughs.

Lae'Zel is just doing what she thinks is best, I feel like especially after 1st tadpole power she is friendlier, although approval might have triggered that as well smile Anyways, she warmed up to me, both of them did. And I don't feel the looming gloom as much as with Astarion.
I've read that theory about Gale! I think it's very likely there's more to him than meets the eye. I must admit I am not very interested in having him around once he ask to eat relics. What if I am feeding some evil god?!


Alright, let me unpack this: everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Now let me explain why I think they all are manipulative, aside from Wyll.

Lae'zel - when she's stuck in that cage, she literally makes the PC believe that she has a cure to the tadpole problem. Well, I wasn't shocked when it came out she was bluffing. Second strike is after meeting Zorru, you have to pass an insight check 'for signs of deceit' if you pass it, she's legit lying and having doubts about the creche, you can use the tadpole on her to peer even further beyond her barriers. Which again, I did out of curiosity, but reloaded immediately after. She knows deep inside that the purification is most likely bogus and will end up in entire groups' death, but she's githyanki, she's been legit brainwashed into believing things like: purification will save you, she's still trying to manipulate you into getting her way, regardless how you look at it. It doesn't make her any worse of a character.

Shadowheart - yes, sure, there are multiple points in the game where you can confront her about her being a Sharran, but her admitting that (under pressure no less) doesn't mean she's not manipulative. Her mere hatred of Lae'zel and constant remarks 'you shouldn't take her with us', 'you shouldn't have freed her' etc could've been written in 'manipulation manual for dummies 101'. Manipulative people can be nice btw. Again, it's not about characters warming up to you, it's about the way they act and react to different situations. And no, I haven't romanced Shadow either, not planning to. Basically what @azarhal wrote:

Originally Posted by azarhal

Shadowheart is a Sharran, she should be manipulative, it's one of their main traits.


Shadowheart might be the nicest, most kind Sharran (what is a contradiction in itself) on the face of Faerun, but it doesn't make her any less manipulative. For all we know she could be using us to smuggle that 'mysterious artifact' to Baldur's Gate undetected, back to her Sharran priests and who knows what kind of catastrophe it could cause?

Gale - I think his topic is exhausted in that reddit link I posted before. :P

Astarion - also manipulative as heck, he does his best to gain PCs trust to basically manipulate the main char into becoming his little mobile blood supply, shall I say more? Still, he's my favorite of 'em all, mostly because of these little moments when he breaks out of character, when he's absolutely terrified of Cazador's reach, so much so he temporarily drops the mental walls to put them back up again.

Wyll - he's a special case. He's clearly conflicted about the deal he made with Mizora, cause he knows deep inside that his hero 'shitck' is a lie, he's been lying to himself worst of all. He knows if it wasn't for his pact, he'd be dead, forgotten and he damn well knows he would most likely accomplish nothing without his warlock powers. Of the entire cast, he does lie and dodge the truth the most, but he's not manipulative, but there is potential... to let him succumb to corruption or fight it. It's quite poetic really.


Originally Posted by Vamathi

Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
I legit think Astarion is probably the most honest LI in right now

To be honest I thought this up until I went to the hunter without Astarion. I don't entirely believe the reason why the vampire hunter is after him specifically (discussed it somewhere above in spoilers). My main reason is that the hunter doesn't know how he looks, which seems like a major oversight someone as scheming as Cazador sounds.
If he is truthful about that, than I believe that Astarion is indeed the most honest LI. If he is lying about it, than I am really curious what the reason could be.


I think you are fixated on the hunter a bit too much. wink Like I wrote earlier/in the other topic - the reason for the vampire hunter being there is simple. Cazador wants Astarion back. Why? Well, think about IRL history - what happened to runaway slaves/indentured servants? Do you really think their 'owners' would just let them go and not hunt them down to make an example out of them?

Also, if you romance Astarion with a tiefling, after the night spent together you can comment on his big scar 'poem' being written in infernal. Now why would Cazador write anything in infernal? Most likely in hopes of owning Astarion's soul? A soul transfer spell a'la what Irenicus had done to Gorion's ward in BG2 that made the slayer emerge? Be my guest at the guessing game behind the meaning of Astarion's infernal big bad scar. We simply don't know yet.

And of course the hunter knows only a vague description of Astarion, I have a suspicion that the hunter was setup to fail by Cazador. The first one was just a warning. I'm pretty sure once we meet more hunters going after Astarion - they'll actually mean business, be better prepared.

Originally Posted by Vamathi

There is so many questions, as to how the story will develop and it's also core to understanding the possibilities of him backstabbing you... Because of how power hungry and broken/damaged Astarion is, he shouldn't be completely trusted.
If the tadpole stays in our head the entire time in BG3, than I trust him, mostly. This would solve the issue of Astarion leaving the party in case you help him with his quest - whatever that is. Without a tadpole and being true vampire. I don't see why he would stick with you, as he would likely burn in the sunlight.

He is likely to manipulate you to help him kill Cazador and once he achieved both goals, he is free. He mentions maybe having his own coven in one of the dialogues I believe. He also talks about how it never happens, that a vampire shares in his power with a vampire spawn. I believe he is honest with both of these as his goals.
If we can manage to control the tadpole powers and unless there is some sudden power shift and he feels like he is on the losing side I think we are all good.


Astarion doesn't say he wants his own coven, he merely explains why a vampire wouldn't give up a slave to become his competitor, he even says he doesn't care about becoming a true vampire, all he cares about is Cazador painfully dying.. And when he says that it's one of these moments when his voice actor's delivery is amazing, his voice even slightly cracks. What makes me believe that voice delivery was deliberate and that he actually meant that. On top of that, in previous topic I mentioned that there are magical ways for vampires to be able to walk in sunlight. Again, look up Hexxat from BG2EE. She has a magical cloak, if you don't wear it during daylight, she slowly burns to death (similar to Astarion taking acid damage in running water). So who's to say that the PC and Astarion won't find a way to make him walk in daylight after the tadpole is dealt with?

And I highly doubt, if treated kindly, that Astarion will flip a traitor switch and decide to betray us for funzies. At least if we follow the logic of - for every action there is a reaction. But if you provoke a hornets nest, you're likely to get stung. wink

But again, it's all speculation anyway. Things might get rewritten or slightly/completely changed.

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Yeah Astarion strait up says the first one was a message

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...

edit: I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.

I feel like If we took Astarion's word at face value, he would never share his power and freedom once he gets it. That dialogue line says, that Astarion will be willing to do it (whatever it is). Maybe you even lock-in the loyalty of your party at that point (I mean Larian mostly said this, but I am not sure how much it can be taken as in they would never betray you), maybe he will not want to side with the hero path, if our approval is below certain point. The nature of tadpole and who tampered with it might give him enough of a reason to try and learn more about it and use it's power. But yes, I see him ditching on the player character if we somehow get rid of the tadpole before resolving the main quest smile

As I mentioned in one of the previous posts - I believe that even character like him could go through with the 'hero' path, even if the path that gets us there is very grey. I personally don't want him to change his opinions or be more kind. I like that he is snarky, nasty, kinky and all over the place.
As for the good ending or potential cure to vampirism: This is an idea that sprouted from Astarion enjoying the sun. Nothing else.
If there is some clash of gods though - and you do decide to side with the good guys - maybe there would be more of a reason for him wanting to reverse is, have his soul back, especially if the tadpole is gone and he would miss the sun too much including the player character smile I think there are doable ways to make 'evil' characters make choices they wouldn't.


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Shadow Heart looks like a cute teen goth, she's better than Josephine and Cassandra from the Inquisition combined. Making her a mysterious and a feminine half-elf was a good decision. Her romance is very sincere and kind, PG13, but for now. In the future, she will reveal herself as a character even more interesting. For good and evil heroes who like the classic girl archetype.

Laezel is more brutal and dominant, evil, but an obvious option for good characters who like Strong Woman. It's not bad, but a little out of my taste. Maybe I'll leave it for the third playthrough of the game in release.

Minthara is the perfect Strong Woman for an evil hero, she has everything that people love in drow - my top 1. Very charming bitch, I love her and her dominance - especially considering the fact that I play as a male drow wizard, I am ready to do anything what will she say. Nevertheless, I hope she will also have the opportunity to show herself in some moments weak and in need of our protection in the future when she will really trust us and consider us her friend. I also expect her to act of her own accord and not as a mind flayer puppet, and that there will be an opportunity for a happy ending.

Astarion is a great option for an evil female character, as well as for bisexuals. Although, he's so charming that some good guys will romance him. I'm not surprised that he is the leader in the amount of fan art among female fans.

Gail is a standard, easy option for a good female character without much kink. This explains its popularity.

Will is just a misunderstanding, I don't understand why he is needed. I think it will be revealed later, when we meet Mizora, it's too early to say anything about it. But if he has a bad demon girlfriend, why is he so "good"?

There is also Karlach and some halfling-werewolf girl who are going to add, but this is trash as for me, I don't care if they are in release or not. In my party they will be at most companions, if I decide to take them at all.
Now my party looks like Laezel, Astarion, Shadow Heart, I would replace one of them (most likely Shadow Heart) with Minthara if she is still added as a companion.
This line-up suits me completely and I don't need other heroes.

Minsc already has the love of his life, this is the space hamster Boo, I can't say anything about him - let the girls say. I suppose it will be a popular compion, but not a popular romance.


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Originally Posted by Vamathi
Originally Posted by Nyloth
And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...

edit: I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.

I feel like If we took Astarion's word at face value, he would never share his power and freedom once he gets it. That dialogue line says, that Astarion will be willing to do it (whatever it is). Maybe you even lock-in the loyalty of your party at that point (I mean Larian mostly said this, but I am not sure how much it can be taken as in they would never betray you), maybe he will not want to side with the hero path, if our approval is below certain point. The nature of tadpole and who tampered with it might give him enough of a reason to try and learn more about it and use it's power. But yes, I see him ditching on the player character if we somehow get rid of the tadpole before resolving the main quest smile

As I mentioned in one of the previous posts - I believe that even character like him could go through with the 'hero' path, even if the path that gets us there is very grey. I personally don't want him to change his opinions or be more kind. I like that he is snarky, nasty, kinky and all over the place.
As for the good ending or potential cure to vampirism: This is an idea that sprouted from Astarion enjoying the sun. Nothing else.
If there is some clash of gods though - and you do decide to side with the good guys - maybe there would be more of a reason for him wanting to reverse is, have his soul back, especially if the tadpole is gone and he would miss the sun too much including the player character smile I think there are doable ways to make 'evil' characters make choices they wouldn't.


Yeah, when he talks about becoming a vampire lord it clearly sounds like something he wants. Like he hates Cazador and other vampire lords because of what Cazador has done to him, and other vampire lords because of their overall shitty power hunger. But if he joined the club he would be no different--if nothing else out of a sort of payback. I think our boy would be a vindictive bitch lol. I could see him becoming a vampire lord being a potential bad ending for the MC if he made the MC a vampire spawn. Alternatively, killing Cazador without him making an Astarion a vampire lord could potentially be a good ending for him. Especially if it leads to the resurrection cure.

I don't think Astarion would leave the player once the tadpole was removed because of the stargazing scene. He mentions wanting to continue traveling with the mc after its extraction because the mc is a usefull ally. I think he'd want to keep the mc around until Cazador is taken care of. Even though he thinks mc would pose no real threat against Cazador, having help would still improve Astarion's chances against him.

Originally Posted by Arideya
I generally like evil characters, or characters that don't normally go along with what the main character does and do not get a "redemption" arc. I know Neverwinter Nights 2 was hugely unfinished, but I loved Bishop's character for this reason. He was so unapologetically evil and messed up that no matter what you did he'd still betray you. And I thought all those mods giving him redemption and a happily ever after did not do him justice, turning a cool character into a misunderstood woobie in need of saving. That said Astarion seems different to me. Sure, he is evil and approves of some evil actions, but does not seem to be completely far gone. I might be wrong though... It would be interesting to see. I don't necessarily want a redemption arc for him but more an ability to coexist without falling into an evil for the lulz route.

Edit: @OP thanks so much for creating this thread. <3 Make love not war grin



Regarding redemption arcs and Astarion's approval, I agree that I wouldn't want to see his character fundamentally changed. But I think it's natural for a character to be pulled over one alignment based on player influence. So an evil character could become neutral but never good and vice versa. But the player can already get high approval from Astarion without being evil, so this gives me hope.

x3 and np! I'm happy to have a dedicated space to discuss this stuff. It gives me life.

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Wait, I just realized something... OP are you the same pinklily that commented on my Tiefling de-wrinkler Nexus mod?


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Originally Posted by Arideya
Wait, I just realized something... OP are you the same pinklily that commented on my Tiefling de-wrinkler Nexus mod?


xD That I am. Hello, my friend.

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@Nicottia;;
I think I might rethink some of the characters after your insights,but personally I think it also comes down to dialogue choices you pick. I simply didn't feel manipulated to do anything by any of them.

I will dissect Astarion a bit more, because a couple of things just clicked for my theory smile
My fixation on the hunter might seem silly - of course, Astarion might be saying the truth, the whole point is, it's his word against hunter's and there seems to be some wiggle room potential for plot twist.
Of course, at the moment it's purely speculation. I don't think there is any real proof that Astarion lies to you right now.

Personally I think he is much older, than he says he is and he might even be a greater vampire /wiki.
Hmm a kiss by succubus? Wonder if that's where the seal/Cazador's Poem came from...
Vampire spawn in my eyes, was always more monstrous than vampire and this is why Gandrel doesn't recognize him at all, it's because he changed his form to someone else. Astarion is someone else entirely imho.

There is an line in game, that is propably very missable by most (especially simps) - for reference and larian lore tidbit about him.
Now isn't that interesting? I haven't tested if he possibly replies differently to different race of MC (mine was half-elf), but regardless - the MC should know elfs live pretty long. If he is so sure that he is so ancient, could it be, that he might be older?
And the wording from Larian: 'The mind flayer parasite freed him from his bonds', sounds like it already happened.

Yes, I think Astarion's voice acting is deliberate, to manipulate you laugh
Astarion on vampires being power-hungry and cappable of creating his own coven

Originally Posted by Arideya
Wait, I just realized something... OP are you the same pinklily that commented on my Tiefling de-wrinkler Nexus mod?

Thanks for that one! Also downloaded smile


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I signed up to add my vote for an Astarion redemption path - not that I expect him to wake up chaotic good one morning, or any morning, but a shift into neutral territory seems doable. I'd also like to be able to reverse his vampirism, but so far he hasn't shown the slightest inclination toward being un-undead, so that seems like more of a stretch.

Gale is the only other character who's caught my interest so far and he's... taken? Sort of? In a weird place relationship-wise, at least, and at times (as has been pointed out) at least as manipulative as Astarion, so I'm not sure about the guy.

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Originally Posted by pinklily


xD That I am. Hello, my friend.


Heyyy!! <3 Haha this is awesome! I guess all of us hang out in the same places :3


Originally Posted by Vamathi

Thanks for that one! Also downloaded smile



Hey any time! Glad you like it smile I was thinking of adding more stuff, but there is not much to do. All the textures and models that were released for the EA look so incredibly beautiful and realistic.


Originally Posted by Vamathi


There is an line in game, that is propably very missable by most (especially simps) - for reference and larian lore tidbit about him.
Now isn't that interesting? I haven't tested if he possibly replies differently to different race of MC (mine was half-elf), but regardless - the MC should know elfs live pretty long. If he is so sure that he is so ancient, could it be, that he might be older?
And the wording from Larian: 'The mind flayer parasite freed him from his bonds', sounds like it already happened.



My main is a Tiefling and its the same line. I just assumed your character is supposed to be relatively young? And I think Astarion is supposed to be 200 or so? At least that's the number I've seen somewhere.
By the "bonds" I've always assumed it was fear of sunlight and entering houses without invitation. He still gets hurt by running water so...

Last edited by Arideya; 01/11/20 11:43 PM.

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Linnea
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.


At least because you need to do evil things to get Astarion's approval. If you do what he doesn't like (good actions), you won't get approval and you won't have romance... So how he will change if you need to do evil actions?
So if he can change in other way, like ‘not approved’ way, it’s stupid. Cuz Wyll, for example, doesn't get evil, he just walks away from you if he don’t like your choice. This is logical.


Originally Posted by Vamathi
Pretty sure, if you go ahead and tease him a little it doesn't matter. I definitely romanced him on neutral and mid approval.



And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...

edit: I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.




I am not expecting a potential redemption arc to suddenly turn him into a lawful good saint. Just a little less...murder-happy?

However in the end 'it is what it is' and I can hope for a good ending for Astarion and my PC, but if it ends in heartbreak I will be fine. (I romance Solas in Dragon Age Inquisition so I know all about that lol)

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Originally Posted by Arideya
My main is a Tiefling and its the same line. I just assumed your character is supposed to be relatively young? And I think Astarion is supposed to be 200 or so? At least that's the number I've seen somewhere.
By the "bonds" I've always assumed it was fear of sunlight and entering houses without invitation. He still gets hurt by running water so...

Good to know, that it's the same for tieflings. I honestly don't know, technically he doesn't say how old he is, only how long he has been a vampire, at least according to him.
Larian description wouldn't be accurate, if he was indeed a greater vampire anyways smile
I will be going through the Lords of Darkness pdf that mentions the greater vampire, maybe I will dig out some potential info, but I am probably going to fall asleep after that, before I look like a vampire myself.

This has been me the entire weekend:
[Linked Image]


“There is only one thing we say to Death:
Not today.
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Originally Posted by Linnea
(I romance Solas in Dragon Age Inquisition so I know all about that lol)


I, uh, deleted all my Lavellan saves after Trespasser, and will not be buying the next game. Wish I had more of your tolerance. wink

Crossing my fingers that Astarion ends up closer to Zevran.

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@Vamathi those theories of yours are quite interesting and entertaining. Oh and about Astarion's age - he's a high elf, they live long lives, average lifespan being 750 years. Now he has gray hair, lore wise it's been mentioned many times that elves eternally stay at an adult stage, until they are close to dying of old age, so it's not uncommon for an elf to retain their natural hair color until they are 600 I guess? 700 maybe? I mention this because Astarion's hair and eyebrows are gray, so at the moment of his death, he must've been quite old. For sure more than 500 years old. As to why he has no wrinkles? It could be an illusion, or elves aging differently could be to blame, although, in FR I haven't seen many references to super ancient wrinkled elves. I'm not an expert on elven D&D lore, but I guess I know slightly more than your average person, since I have a huge obsession with elves in games. If I am given a race choice, I will always go elf. In D&D I'm pretty much split between elves and drow (I wonder why in BG3 drow aren't an elven subrace, I blame Larian's tag system).

Anyway, let's just assume Astarion was 500 when he died, add 200 years he claims to have spent being Cazador's slave boy, that would make him at least 700 yr old, possibly older... But that line about PC's ancestor's learning to crawl is... interesting. I loaded a super early save and I got the same scenario to pop up... as a drow.

[Linked Image]


I don't think races are at all implemented in this line. I mean, there are a few things that raise my brow... but this one is kinda funny. Oh, that would make him older than Ao, if we are supposed to take this line seriously. LMAO

But in all seriousness, I think that Larian, just like Bioware, assumed people would play human (to later scorn the vault dweller Tav), so in that case it would make sense. Also Astarion's biting scene? Makes 0 sense for elven characters, since they don't sleep, they trance. Good luck sneaking up on an elf in trance to suck their blood... it could be possible, but eeeh. Oh another inconsistency in the lore: from the mods enabling origin characters as mains, you can see that Cazador is an elf (has extra long ears)... with a beard (IMPOSSIBRU). So unless he's some sort of https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Fey%27ri (you might have to copy the link and paste it in your browser, for some reason the name fey'ri causes the link to break), what could explain his proficiency in infernal... but that gives me DOS2 Malady vibes, not gonna lie.

Oh and I did read that infernal to latin to english translation of Cazador's poem a while ago, heck, even my little theory on possible soul transfer is buried deep in the comment section of that reddit post. wink

Well, I'm not deluded into thinking that Astarion is an honorable paladin in shining armor. I know he's a master manipulator. And true, his voice acting being deliberate crossed my mind, altho, there has to be some seed of truth buried within. I mean, come full release first thing I'm gonna do is see the entire game through romancing Astarion, slaying Cazador (I wonder how that will play out really, if there is going to be a way to get Astarion a sip of his blood or will he remain an overpowered vamp spawn forever or will there be other solutions to his vampirism), gonna deny the tadpole and see if it can't be turned against itself. I am curious what type of ending is there in store for all of us, whatever paths we take. I really hope choices will have consequences.

Also, I wouldn't put much stock in Larian's old PR material, since er, retcons happen, plans change.

Last edited by Nicottia; 02/11/20 01:13 AM.
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