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Dogmatis #725995 02/11/20 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dogmatis
Halsin made some bad calls. I would not say that he is full of shit, but his leadership skills are lacking, or he simply didn't prepare the druids for a scenario were they would be under threat, so when it came down to it the other druids did not know what to do in his absence.

It's the same thing that would happen in any workplace. If the boss/leader leaves without giving proper guidance on how to handle certain situations, things are going to turn into a shit show real quick especially if the second in command is someone as incompetent as Kagha.

Halsin was also probably counting on being back in the Grove and not being absent due to him getting captured.
So Kagha is a discord moderator? 🤔

Vhaldez #726012 02/11/20 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by Dogmatis
Halsin made some bad calls. I would not say that he is full of shit, but his leadership skills are lacking, or he simply didn't prepare the druids for a scenario were they would be under threat, so when it came down to it the other druids did not know what to do in his absence.

It's the same thing that would happen in any workplace. If the boss/leader leaves without giving proper guidance on how to handle certain situations, things are going to turn into a shit show real quick especially if the second in command is someone as incompetent as Kagha.

Halsin was also probably counting on being back in the Grove and not being absent due to him getting captured.
So Kagha is a discord moderator? 🤔



I don't know. That depends on how feasible it would be to get children killed while moderating a disc channel.


Verily it is written that the Omnissiah grants his blessing to those who come well-equipped with explosives. -Aphorisms 96.9
Vhaldez #726071 02/11/20 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Olodan's role in Kagha's story and how the two of them managed to flip grove politics on its head needs to be addressed. Halsin is such a good guy compared to Kagha that it's hard to believe she could turn all of his people around so easily.



The druids arent good though. Charity isnt a tenant of Silvanus, nor is kindness. Their true neutral god doesnt give a shit about others who arent his followers or the forest. Sure, some of his followers might be neutral good, but most are true neutral, some are neutral evil. The neutral and evil ones aren't thrilled to have to deal with a bunch of non-believers sucking up their resources, disrupting their rites, and bringing goblin attacks on them.


It would be interesting to see a tiefling druid in the grove with a hardline stance against the tiefling refugees.

Last edited by Bossk_Hogg; 02/11/20 05:06 PM.
Bossk_Hogg #726269 02/11/20 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Olodan's role in Kagha's story and how the two of them managed to flip grove politics on its head needs to be addressed. Halsin is such a good guy compared to Kagha that it's hard to believe she could turn all of his people around so easily.



The druids arent good though. Charity isnt a tenant of Silvanus, nor is kindness. Their true neutral god doesnt give a shit about others who arent his followers or the forest. Sure, some of his followers might be neutral good, but most are true neutral, some are neutral evil. The neutral and evil ones aren't thrilled to have to deal with a bunch of non-believers sucking up their resources, disrupting their rites, and bringing goblin attacks on them.


It would be interesting to see a tiefling druid in the grove with a hardline stance against the tiefling refugees.

The problem there is that the Druids aren't doing anything to actually solve the fundamental problems either way. Yeah, sure, they can protect themselves, but being a Druid is about encouraging natures balance-and the shadow weave, illithid invasion, and violent, rapacious society of the goblins all disrupt those. Kagha is just being a complete fool and looking at the safety of herself and hers, instead of addressing the actual task which Silvanus grants the druids powers to fix. Hence why Halsin, who isn't a complete idiot, is off doing stuff that actually helps the Druids purpose, in addition to protecting them.

If the ritual were made in such a way that it at least destroyed the goblins as well, it could be justified as a violent by legitimate solution. Instead of closing off the grove, it causes the entire surrounding area to become violently hostile to everyone, killing all humanoid creatures. Purge the illithid infestation by killing the hosts, purge the goblins, purge them all.

But Kagha isn't a smart, wise, or worthy leader, she's an idiot demagogue whom is pandering to a scared base with a stupid solution that protects them at the expense of actually doing what they are supposed to do. Which, I believe, is part of the intent here.

Vhaldez #726634 03/11/20 04:31 AM
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Vhaldez: Kagha is bad!
Kagha reaction:
[Linked Image]

Vhaldez #726732 03/11/20 08:28 AM
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[Linked Image] You hate to see her come but you love to see her go.

Back on topic though;

Originally Posted by Baldur's Gate 3 Wiki
When the grove was founded, the druids forced hordes of creature, such as goblins, from the land. However in 1490s DR, they came back after being influenced by the Absolute, and other beings flocked to the grove, particularly tieflings. The goblins of the Absolute seized the First Druid, Master Halsin, and Kagha took over in his place, but had very little tolerance for their kind.

One of the young tieflings that came to the grove, Arabella, stole the Idol of Silvanus. Kagha captured the young tiefling thief and had her viper watch over her. She then instructed the druids of the grove to perform the Rite of Thorns to protect their sacred home from other outsiders. In truth she sought to take over as leader of the grove and rededicate it to serve the Shadow Druids.
The more I read up on FR druids, the more confused I get. They forced goblins off their land? What?

Vhaldez #726779 03/11/20 09:41 AM
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She is cute in this screenshot

What's wrong with Shadow Druids? I don't understand them, but if I hear that there are some assholes in an RPG game, I always wonder if there is an option to make friends with them

OneManArmy #726781 03/11/20 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
What's wrong with Shadow Druids? I don't understand them, but if I hear that there are some assholes in an RPG game, I always wonder if there is an option to make friends with them
The only thing I can really say is that they are the druid KKK, which I also don't understand. Druids are certainly not good and selfless by definition but roving bands of subversive extremists staging secret coups in unsuspecting groves is just bizarre.

Vhaldez #726791 03/11/20 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
What's wrong with Shadow Druids? I don't understand them, but if I hear that there are some assholes in an RPG game, I always wonder if there is an option to make friends with them
The only thing I can really say is that they are the druid KKK, which I also don't understand. Druids are certainly not good and selfless by definition but roving bands of subversive extremists staging secret coups in unsuspecting groves is just bizarre.


The only thing I can say is that I would like to see her and the elves at my party instead of tieflings. (If I decide to play as a good elf in second playthrough)
Although it can be called a neutral root
As a companion, I would not want her, let him sit in her grove. (although she would be much better than Karlach or that halfling werewolf girl on which developers decided to spend resources) But I like the option to start helping her and get a reward in the form of an artifact / party with elves / castescene for one night more than the option with tieflings.

Vhaldez #727050 03/11/20 07:02 PM
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Let's collect more screenshots with her.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
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[Linked Image]

OneManArmy #730136 08/11/20 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Let's collect more screenshots with her.
I thought you were Russian, not German. Huh.

Vhaldez #730222 08/11/20 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Let's collect more screenshots with her.
I thought you were Russian, not German. Huh.


That's right, screenshots from the Internet.
Not a bad elf, only her face is evil. Apparently he was specially made so that it was clear that she was cruel. More elves needed

Vhaldez #730247 08/11/20 01:07 PM
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Quick jump in just to say:

A fun irony to how poorly made this whole situation is, is that, if you act in a way that causes the druids to attack the teiflings in an attempt to purge them from the grove (messing with the idol does this - they'll decry you, and then the whole grove pitches into a fight,m druid against tiefling), and stay out of the fight yourself.... the tieflings win. By a very clear margin. Kagha and all of hers, as well as all of the druids that went along with her, attempt to 'purge the foul blood parasites', and they all die, and most of the tieflings survive, and end up talking about the situation, now that the druids are all gone.

Oh, and the absolutely useless racist mercenaries from the intro to the grove, don't fight at all - they leg it at the first sign of conflict.

Last edited by Niara; 08/11/20 01:08 PM.
Niara #730324 08/11/20 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Niara
Quick jump in just to say:

A fun irony to how poorly made this whole situation is, is that, if you act in a way that causes the druids to attack the teiflings in an attempt to purge them from the grove (messing with the idol does this - they'll decry you, and then the whole grove pitches into a fight,m druid against tiefling), and stay out of the fight yourself.... the tieflings win. By a very clear margin. Kagha and all of hers, as well as all of the druids that went along with her, attempt to 'purge the foul blood parasites', and they all die, and most of the tieflings survive, and end up talking about the situation, now that the druids are all gone.

Oh, and the absolutely useless racist mercenaries from the intro to the grove, don't fight at all - they leg it at the first sign of conflict.
Lol. The druids can also act as generic area guard NPC's if you attack the tieflings unprovoked, which can cause them to collectively turn hostile against you. Their corpses piled up on the grove stairs in their valiant effort to protect the "parasites" from my wrath.

Vhaldez #730791 09/11/20 06:35 AM
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I just started a new game and its all even worse. I guess at first play i still had some reservations in my judgement all of it being new and EA.

When you talk to Zevlor after the fight at the gate (which now plays out worse then before as character freeze and slide across terrain and melee hit each other from ten meters away) he says the grove has been attacked by some beasts and Druids are blaming Tieflings for it - while Tieflings were attacked by Gnolls (over by the river) so had to seek refuge in a hurry.

Then there is the Bugbear assassin in hiding - but how is he there while Minthara and the goblins dont know where the Grove is? He got lost?

And there are goblins in that cave you find around the corner after you exit the grove, that leads into the library of the Grove only i guess they didnt think of sending one running back and informing the others.
Sure, they cant get through the traps and want the glory but with other things its a bit too much Absolute forces in or right next to the grove.

While the situation is presumably at the cusp of some resolution because the ritual is already in the process and the refugees must leave like right now, only you can take your time dealing with it all and sleep over for days.
The ritual that will seal the grove into being permanently surrounded by goblins, gnolls and other Absolute forces - about which Druids dont care and dont want to know anything. Because they are biggoted close minded exclusionists - and racists! TLM! TLM!

I cant bring myself to go and relive that awfully written trial again.

Surface R #730853 09/11/20 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Surface R
I just started a new game and its all even worse. I guess at first play i still had some reservations in my judgement all of it being new and EA.

When you talk to Zevlor after the fight at the gate (which now plays out worse then before as character freeze and slide across terrain and melee hit each other from ten meters away) he says the grove has been attacked by some beasts and Druids are blaming Tieflings for it - while Tieflings were attacked by Gnolls (over by the river) so had to seek refuge in a hurry.

Then there is the Bugbear assassin in hiding - but how is he there while Minthara and the goblins dont know where the Grove is? He got lost?

And there are goblins in that cave you find around the corner after you exit the grove, that leads into the library of the Grove only i guess they didnt think of sending one running back and informing the others.
Sure, they cant get through the traps and want the glory but with other things its a bit too much Absolute forces in or right next to the grove.

While the situation is presumably at the cusp of some resolution because the ritual is already in the process and the refugees must leave like right now, only you can take your time dealing with it all and sleep over for days.
The ritual that will seal the grove into being permanently surrounded by goblins, gnolls and other Absolute forces - about which Druids dont care and dont want to know anything. Because they are biggoted close minded exclusionists - and racists! TLM! TLM!

I cant bring myself to go and relive that awfully written trial again.


We can explain most of it in our heads, theoretically...

Zevlor is overreacting at some words, said by some druid who did not know exactly the situation he/she spoke of;
Bugbear just now found his target, and was unable to get back to Minthara because he decided to take out the lone tiefling first and get back to goblin camp later with another kill;
Yes, the grove is almost found and only our party stops the danger (a good thing we can influence this in my book... if those little achievements of relieving the grove from goblin scout forces are being acknowledged by the game, unlike now);

Yet I refuse to explain the problem created by "we can take time for a long rest as much as you want, the situation with ritual and tadpole and parties looking for us, the survivors with an important weapon - wouldn't change". I second the notion it isn't written good enough for now.

Last edited by Ellenhard; 09/11/20 08:31 AM.
Surface R #730896 09/11/20 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Surface R
The ritual that will seal the grove into being permanently surrounded by goblins, gnolls and other Absolute forces - about which Druids dont care and dont want to know anything. Because they are biggoted close minded exclusionists - and racists! TLM! TLM!
This. The writing sets the tieflings up as paragons of virtue to beat you over the head with a message nobody was going to question anyway. They cannot make the tieflings more "evil" or that message is muddied, but they also cannot do anything about the druids' perspective because the ritual is not going to do anything for them. How is some bramble going to protect them from fire?

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If you have to invent stuff in your head to patch, excuse, cover up or minimize what the game or story writing is telling you... Its not good writing you are experiencing.
Sure we have to go over some details and moments in almost every story, game or a movie but this is a whole big part of the very start of the game an its main plot, not some minor side quest.

And its not just minor details but he whole of it.
If it was a multifaceted dice, every way you would turn it, it would result in roll fail.

Its not just about the bramble and fire, maybe its magical and it can withstand fire. The point is the Druids have no idea how long that state can last and worse - they dont even want to know - and worse, you cant even point this out to any of them. They can be closing themselves for years, maybe for centuries - and preventing themselves from doing anything about those outside forces in any way. And of course, its not like Druids are supposed to only protect their small grove and let the world burn.

The writers know that the player will affect the situation one way or another - and you betraying the Druids only makes Kagha plan all the more stupid an absurdly naive - but the Druids themselves have no idea you will remove the threat - and they are not interested in even asking you to investigate what the threat really is, or to do anything about it. They are just braindead focused on "its the refugees fault! get them out and then everything is going to be great!" although they have no evidence, not even any hint the attacks are happening only because of the refugees - they just apparently assumed so... and thats it.
Which is just utterly idiotic and not true as we discover ourselves too.

Halsin apparently figured out something else is going on and went to investigate with that band of adventurers - but it was all done on the hush hush, with only him and Nettie involved in it... but why the fuck would the Archdruid do that? Why would he investigate strange tadpole discovered in an attack on the Druids - like its a secret mission other druids shouldn't know about? Why do it alone? Why not alert the others, especially if there is some kind of stupid plot of inside takeover run by Kagha, that there are outside forces in play that may be a threat to everyone and the whole region, to unite them and prepare them to be vigilant and to fight if necessary. Why not use the whole nature around the grove to spy and collect information - the whole forest is full of eyes that crawl, fly, swim and skitter around. Its not like those first few villages are far away either!

- the goblins inside the tunnel/cave already talk about how rats may be spying for druids, and apparently some rats inside the grove are connected to the shadowdruid side, the druid woman sends a bird to search for Halsin, etc, etc etfc.

The more you probe the very surface of this whole quest the more it unravels and worse and worse it gets. The more inane and illogical and absurd it gets.

Last edited by Surface R; 09/11/20 04:17 PM.
Vhaldez #732679 11/11/20 09:03 PM
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I'm worried they will use Halsin's neglect of his grove as a narrative vehicle to set up
why he stabbed Ketheric Thorm's daughter (IIRC) with a glaive and created the shadow curse by accident.
In my opinion this sours our perspective of him as a character because he did something before the game even started, which is bad narrative practice.

Vhaldez #732725 11/11/20 10:34 PM
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Did anyone else feel like ...

Kagha changed her mind too easily?
It was too simple to convince her to turn against the Shadow Druids, she's so fickle.

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