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Originally Posted by Sharp
I think the game needs the following to make items feel valuable.

• Merchants only trade in goods they are interested in. The food vendor does not by weapons, the weapons vendor does not buy oil barrels, etc. That, or if they do buy it, they buy it at a significantly reduced rate.
• Reduce the value of many items within the game.
• Vendor gold is not replenished on rest. Either tie replenishing gold to quest progression, or some other metric.
• Vendors have 1 or 2 "high value" items, which are incredibly strong relative to the power of the campaign (so say a +2 item in the terms of this campaign), which sells for a large percentage of the gold you could possibly acquire (say 20-40% for a single item).
• Vendors do not store their entire stock on their person. It could be contained within a chest somewhere and the chest should be something you can lockpick, but it should be difficult to steal their high value items.

These measures would go a long way to making items in Faerun feel more valuable.



Some of those would be okay. I thought about the "reduce the value" idea, but I find it problematic. The listed value of many of the magic items you find is already INSULTINGLY low. Like, "Priceless Platinum Bowl" levels of absurd pricing. That's a reference to the MMO Neverwinter, in which you can find treasure items called PRICELESS. PLATINUM. Bowls. Guess how much they're worth? 35 silver. As soon as I saw that, I went into a tirade of mockery that has never really stopped. So that's the category of nonsense some of these item values have in BG3 at the moment. There are some very powerful magic items that are only worth 100 or 200 gold. Are you being SERIOUS? Those items should be worth THOUSANDS of gold. They lower the value so that people don't get super rich from selling those items, and I can understand that. But it already makes the game world's economy strain credulity. If they lowered values even more, it would just seem absurd.

"Nice Holy Avenger you got there. I appraise it as being worth the same amount as fifty potatoes."

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by Sharp
I think the game needs the following to make items feel valuable.

• Merchants only trade in goods they are interested in. The food vendor does not by weapons, the weapons vendor does not buy oil barrels, etc. That, or if they do buy it, they buy it at a significantly reduced rate.
• Reduce the value of many items within the game.
• Vendor gold is not replenished on rest. Either tie replenishing gold to quest progression, or some other metric.
• Vendors have 1 or 2 "high value" items, which are incredibly strong relative to the power of the campaign (so say a +2 item in the terms of this campaign), which sells for a large percentage of the gold you could possibly acquire (say 20-40% for a single item).
• Vendors do not store their entire stock on their person. It could be contained within a chest somewhere and the chest should be something you can lockpick, but it should be difficult to steal their high value items.

These measures would go a long way to making items in Faerun feel more valuable.



Some of those would be okay. I thought about the "reduce the value" idea, but I find it problematic. The listed value of many of the magic items you find is already INSULTINGLY low. Like, "Priceless Platinum Bowl" levels of absurd pricing. That's a reference to the MMO Neverwinter, in which you can find treasure items called PRICELESS. PLATINUM. Bowls. Guess how much they're worth? 35 silver. As soon as I saw that, I went into a tirade of mockery that has never really stopped. So that's the category of nonsense some of these item values have in BG3 at the moment. There are some very powerful magic items that are only worth 100 or 200 gold. Are you being SERIOUS? Those items should be worth THOUSANDS of gold. They lower the value so that people don't get super rich from selling those items, and I can understand that. But it already makes the game world's economy strain credulity. If they lowered values even more, it would just seem absurd.

"Nice Holy Avenger you got there. I appraise it as being worth the same amount as fifty potatoes."

I am well aware of the Priceless Platinum Bowls in Neverwinter. You missed the best part, the description for the item lists that it is a plate (its model is also a plate). When I say, "reduce the value of many items within the game," that does not mean reduce all of them and some of them, would make perfect sense to increase. That was what my 4th point was about, high value items should have a very high value and a player should bleed money if they want to buy them.

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Originally Posted by Sharp
I think the game needs the following to make items feel valuable.

• Merchants only trade in goods they are interested in. The food vendor does not by weapons, the weapons vendor does not buy oil barrels, etc. That, or if they do buy it, they buy it at a significantly reduced rate.
• Reduce the value of many items within the game.
• Vendor gold is not replenished on rest. Either tie replenishing gold to quest progression, or some other metric.
• Vendors have 1 or 2 "high value" items, which are incredibly strong relative to the power of the campaign (so say a +2 item in the terms of this campaign), which sells for a large percentage of the gold you could possibly acquire (say 20-40% for a single item).
• Vendors do not store their entire stock on their person. It could be contained within a chest somewhere and the chest should be something you can lockpick, but it should be difficult to steal their high value items.

These measures would go a long way to making items in Faerun feel more valuable.



+1 on the vendor gold not replenishing and vendors storing their stock in a locked chest.

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Originally Posted by Sharp
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by Sharp
I think the game needs the following to make items feel valuable.

• Merchants only trade in goods they are interested in. The food vendor does not by weapons, the weapons vendor does not buy oil barrels, etc. That, or if they do buy it, they buy it at a significantly reduced rate.
• Reduce the value of many items within the game.
• Vendor gold is not replenished on rest. Either tie replenishing gold to quest progression, or some other metric.
• Vendors have 1 or 2 "high value" items, which are incredibly strong relative to the power of the campaign (so say a +2 item in the terms of this campaign), which sells for a large percentage of the gold you could possibly acquire (say 20-40% for a single item).
• Vendors do not store their entire stock on their person. It could be contained within a chest somewhere and the chest should be something you can lockpick, but it should be difficult to steal their high value items.

These measures would go a long way to making items in Faerun feel more valuable.



Some of those would be okay. I thought about the "reduce the value" idea, but I find it problematic. The listed value of many of the magic items you find is already INSULTINGLY low. Like, "Priceless Platinum Bowl" levels of absurd pricing. That's a reference to the MMO Neverwinter, in which you can find treasure items called PRICELESS. PLATINUM. Bowls. Guess how much they're worth? 35 silver. As soon as I saw that, I went into a tirade of mockery that has never really stopped. So that's the category of nonsense some of these item values have in BG3 at the moment. There are some very powerful magic items that are only worth 100 or 200 gold. Are you being SERIOUS? Those items should be worth THOUSANDS of gold. They lower the value so that people don't get super rich from selling those items, and I can understand that. But it already makes the game world's economy strain credulity. If they lowered values even more, it would just seem absurd.

"Nice Holy Avenger you got there. I appraise it as being worth the same amount as fifty potatoes."

I am well aware of the Priceless Platinum Bowls in Neverwinter. You missed the best part, the description for the item lists that it is a plate (its model is also a plate). When I say, "reduce the value of many items within the game," that does not mean reduce all of them and some of them, would make perfect sense to increase. That was what my 4th point was about, high value items should have a very high value and a player should bleed money if they want to buy them.



I love the idea of having some brutally expensive items to buy. Gives you something to aspire to, something to save up for, an incentive to go out there and explore, looking for treasure. Like, items as good as the Sapphire Spark should be dumb expensive. They should be charging 20,000 gold for that thing.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
I love the idea of having some brutally expensive items to buy. Gives you something to aspire to, something to save up for, an incentive to go out there and explore, looking for treasure. Like, items as good as the Sapphire Spark should be dumb expensive. They should be charging 20,000 gold for that thing.

Yes please! Give me my DAO 100-gold (the equivalent of like 100,000+ gold in BG3) Epic Staffs and Belts and Armors

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies


I love the idea of having some brutally expensive items to buy. Gives you something to aspire to, something to save up for, an incentive to go out there and explore, looking for treasure. Like, items as good as the Sapphire Spark should be dumb expensive. They should be charging 20,000 gold for that thing.

That's... basically what the old BG games always did. You could literally walk into a store minutes after ending the tutorial dungeon in BG2 and find on sale "end game" items that were WAY too expensive for your pockets.
Of course they would stay there for the rest of the game until you had the money to buy them. Nothing of this "refreshing inventory every hour" Diablo-esque bullshit Larian seems to love in most of their games.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Yeah I remember that shop in BG2 very well, because it had a Planescape: Torment reference item.

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Originally Posted by Sharp
I think the game needs the following to make items feel valuable.

• Merchants only trade in goods they are interested in. The food vendor does not by weapons, the weapons vendor does not buy oil barrels, etc. That, or if they do buy it, they buy it at a significantly reduced rate.
• Reduce the value of many items within the game.
• Vendor gold is not replenished on rest. Either tie replenishing gold to quest progression, or some other metric.
• Vendors have 1 or 2 "high value" items, which are incredibly strong relative to the power of the campaign (so say a +2 item in the terms of this campaign), which sells for a large percentage of the gold you could possibly acquire (say 20-40% for a single item).
• Vendors do not store their entire stock on their person. It could be contained within a chest somewhere and the chest should be something you can lockpick, but it should be difficult to steal their high value items.

These measures would go a long way to making items in Faerun feel more valuable.


All of those would result in people hoarding loot because they've nowhere to sell it off.

High value items would be nice, and I'd prefer if you can't just pickpocket all the nice items. Hell, I tried pickpocketing Crushers ring and it wasn't on him so idk.

I had trouble with gold in this game, unable to buy +1 items due to lack of cash. I don't hoard stuff to sell because of weight. Making it more difficult for players like me because of metagaming hoarders and compulsive looters is a terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Imora DalSyn
Originally Posted by Sharp
I think the game needs the following to make items feel valuable.

• Merchants only trade in goods they are interested in. The food vendor does not by weapons, the weapons vendor does not buy oil barrels, etc. That, or if they do buy it, they buy it at a significantly reduced rate.
• Reduce the value of many items within the game.
• Vendor gold is not replenished on rest. Either tie replenishing gold to quest progression, or some other metric.
• Vendors have 1 or 2 "high value" items, which are incredibly strong relative to the power of the campaign (so say a +2 item in the terms of this campaign), which sells for a large percentage of the gold you could possibly acquire (say 20-40% for a single item).
• Vendors do not store their entire stock on their person. It could be contained within a chest somewhere and the chest should be something you can lockpick, but it should be difficult to steal their high value items.

These measures would go a long way to making items in Faerun feel more valuable.


All of those would result in people hoarding loot because they've nowhere to sell it off.

High value items would be nice, and I'd prefer if you can't just pickpocket all the nice items. Hell, I tried pickpocketing Crushers ring and it wasn't on him so idk.

I had trouble with gold in this game, unable to buy +1 items due to lack of cash. I don't hoard stuff to sell because of weight. Making it more difficult for players like me because of metagaming hoarders and compulsive looters is a terrible idea.


I am neither a metagaming hoarder or a compulsive looter. In fact, you could say I am the exact opposite. When I stop to loot, I look at an item, divide its value by its weight and if the resulting number is below a certain threshold I do not pick up the item at all. This is a rule I have used for a long time, in any game that has an encumbrance mechanic, so that I would minimize the number of return trips I needed to make to a shop while maximizing the amount of currency I would get out of each return trip. I still finished the EA with ~10,000 gold and felt like everything within the EA had no value. If I wanted to buy something, I simply bought it, at no point did I look at a vendor's inventory, see an item and go "wow, if only I had enough gold to afford that," then feel the need to save up gold to come back and buy it later.

The point being, I want items to have value. If everything within the game is relatively affordable, then the value of items is more or less nothing. There were lots of old games that got this right. BG 1 and 2 got this right (although ToB did not). Dragon Age Origins got this right. Even action RPGs like Nox got this right. More modern games though? For some reason, they just don't get it right and items became worthless.

Last edited by Sharp; 02/11/20 08:44 PM.
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Originally Posted by Imora DalSyn
Originally Posted by Sharp
I think the game needs the following to make items feel valuable.

• Merchants only trade in goods they are interested in. The food vendor does not by weapons, the weapons vendor does not buy oil barrels, etc. That, or if they do buy it, they buy it at a significantly reduced rate.
• Reduce the value of many items within the game.
• Vendor gold is not replenished on rest. Either tie replenishing gold to quest progression, or some other metric.
• Vendors have 1 or 2 "high value" items, which are incredibly strong relative to the power of the campaign (so say a +2 item in the terms of this campaign), which sells for a large percentage of the gold you could possibly acquire (say 20-40% for a single item).
• Vendors do not store their entire stock on their person. It could be contained within a chest somewhere and the chest should be something you can lockpick, but it should be difficult to steal their high value items.

These measures would go a long way to making items in Faerun feel more valuable.


All of those would result in people hoarding loot because they've nowhere to sell it off.

High value items would be nice, and I'd prefer if you can't just pickpocket all the nice items. Hell, I tried pickpocketing Crushers ring and it wasn't on him so idk.

I had trouble with gold in this game, unable to buy +1 items due to lack of cash. I don't hoard stuff to sell because of weight. Making it more difficult for players like me because of metagaming hoarders and compulsive looters is a terrible idea.

The game incentivises hoarding loot already. Larian should simply use realism as a balancing mechanic and NOT allow characters to carry more than real-life elephants. A person wouldn't be able to carry around multiple barrels, weapons, armor and countless smaller items no matter his or her strength. A backpack should be REQUIRED to carry more than an armful of moderately sized items (and I would like to see backpacks visibly represented).

This would force the player to choose instead of incentivising the player vacuuming up everything not nailed down - which feels like a compulsive anti-roleplaying mechanic and a chore. I'm getting bad Fallout 4 vibes in BG3 already lol. Items not picked up should possibly despawn after a set time, perhaps abstracted or be looted by bands of roaming scavengers/raiders/adventurers (yay, random encounters).

Larian set the stage for excessive loot focus and this limits the debate regarding possible solutions as well (though I really like Sharp's ideas). In BG2 you "had" to collect money to ransom your sister Imoen and I would like to see some more non-materialistic use of wealth be made possible in BG3 as well.

Last edited by Seraphael; 02/11/20 08:35 PM.
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Did anyone stop to think that some of these items were placed here to test? This isn't the final game, some people need to stop acting like this is the final cut.

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now time to gather all container, crate, chest, vase and all insignificant decorative object and decorate the camp with it :P

Last edited by Evil_it_Self; 02/11/20 09:21 PM.

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I want multiple DIFFERENT difficulty sliders. One for normal "combat difficulty", yeah, but also one for "economic difficulty". The higher you set it, the more everything costs from vendors, the less everything sells for, and the less the drop chance is for useful consumable items from random containers. Most people could just keep it on normal and play the way Larian intended. But people like me could crank it up and regain the feeling of loot being worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by flick40
Did anyone stop to think that some of these items were placed here to test? This isn't the final game, some people need to stop acting like this is the final cut.


They set a version of the game before us, and said "tell us what you think of this". We're just doing that.

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Holy ***** ***** dude, nice work/thread.

There is a crapton of shit and no real way to organize it.

I think the fact that there is no "junk" category for junk items to auto sell, or mass transfer from one character to the other is quite bad, EA or not.

It would be nice even if you could name your backpacks/pouches, with the option of auto storing Items that you loot in those bags. EG you click on a bag and select the category of item that you would like to automatically go in it. Key/arrow/potion/whatever.

Also, OP, unless I missed something, this is all without the underdark? Because I didn't notice any crystals in your inventory or mentioned in your lists.


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No, this was after Underdark and everything else. I already sold the crystals. My lists are only the things I had that could be used in some way. Junk items or just-for-selling items were all already converted into coin or sitting in my camp stash being useless.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by Seraphael


There surely must be someone at Larian with an out of control crush on the Wizard class in particular.


It's not just "someone". It's Swen. The big boss. In a recent interview he said that wizards are his favorite class, and that he "always plays a wizard". I mean, when you look at the choices they've made in this game, it all starts to make sense...



LOL. Considering what I went through yesterday, I question how much they "love" Wizards. Every single monster in the Underdark map kept bypassing my fighters and going straight for Gale, often before he'd even done an action during the combat. He died about six times in two hours (with reloads after one egregiously bloody curb-stomping). The minotaurs did it, the Hook Horrors did it, and the damn Bulette did it TWICE. mad

After all that, I have absolutely NO desire to try making my own avatar wizard. The enemy AI seems to be primed to immediately kill the wizard when combat starts.

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I used Gale in my party for the entire game, and he never died once.

Some or all of these things might help with protecting Gale:

1. Use Mage Armor on Gale at all times
2. If Mage Armor is not enough, use Mirror Image
3. Use Jump to get Gale into key positions where he can rain down magic but is hard to attack back
4. Keep Gale as far back away from enemies as possible, and after he casts his spell, move him even farther away
5. Get Gale out of vision cones after he casts his spell, and then Hide with bonus action

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I think these are early access issues, and the economic system in the game is fine. In the release version, no one will farm 100 hours in the first chapter. Plus, higher levels await us, and most of these weapons will become obsolete, and new ones will cost more, so don't worry

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
I used Gale in my party for the entire game, and he never died once.

Some or all of these things might help with protecting Gale:

1. Use Mage Armor on Gale at all times
2. If Mage Armor is not enough, use Mirror Image
3. Use Jump to get Gale into key positions where he can rain down magic but is hard to attack back
4. Keep Gale as far back away from enemies as possible, and after he casts his spell, move him even farther away
5. Get Gale out of vision cones after he casts his spell, and then Hide with bonus action


Gale WAS in the back of the party, and everything jumped OVER the REST of the party to get to him. There's not much benefit to elevation when the monsters can leap all over at will and still land two attacks.

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