Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Since when Drow

I remember this from 3.0 and 3.5 rules that you could take a feat and avoid the negative effects of daylight. Do they not have this option in 5E rules?

That it's a feat in 5e or not it's irrelevant; fact is in the lore of forgotten realms you have thousands of surface drow.

The earliest reference I can find to surface drow settlement is Buiyrandyn which was founded by Eilistraee worshippers sometime around 747 DR. I'm guessing that because the Seven Sisters were born around that time and the youngest of the lot, Qilue, would have died due to her mother being killed in childbirth (their father thought she was possessed by an evil spirit) resulting in Mystra acting quick to save the unborn soul. Around that time Illiryztara Veladorn had suffered a miscarriage in traveling to the location of Buiyrandyn and it was likely to result in her death as well since (I'm guessing at the time Eilistraee didn't have the power to just save her). Mystra worked out a quick deal with Eilistraee and Qilue's soul was bound into Illiryztara allowing her to born and saving her....second mother's life....?

Magic and gods is weird, y'all.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this is when Buiryandyn was being founded or if it had existed already and Illiryztara was simply making her way there.

Buiyrandyn was later destroyed by mind flayers.

Anyway. Eilistraee had a powerful cleric in Qilue and contacts as well via her half-elven sisters (The aforementioned Seven Sisters.) who tended to be Harpers, were Chosen of Mystra (Qilue is also Chosen of Mystra despite following Eilistraee), and having several major positions. This helped give non-evil Drow a reliable support network to start building.

By the time Drizzt Do'Urden came to Icewind Dale in 1347 there were several permanent and semi-permanent Eilistraee settlements in secret here and there as well as a handful of drow worshippers of human gods. Drizzt just somehow never managed to find them in stumbling over the surface.

*shrug* - maybe most of them were clustered in the Heartlands... I don't know.

Liriel Baenre found all sorts of surface drow in the same time period...though she was actively looking for them, now that I think about it. Liriel ended up a cleric of Mystra and living in Rashemen accepted as one of the Witches of that culture...I think...haven't finished that series yet.

Between the 1300s and the 1400s the surface drow grew progressively more public. Around the Second Sundering (1480) Corellon granted many of Eilistraee's worshippers a reprieve from the curse given to the Drow when they allied with demons and chose to serve Lloth (Drow itself as a word means something like "traitor"). This reverted them to looking more like their pre-curse state (which is still dark greys and dusky colors).

In 1374 drow still provoke immediate fear when they first meet people, much more so than tieflings who provoke suspicion and are sometimes treated as easy targets. However, drow can fairly easily convince people they're not evil. (reference NWN2 when you rescue Neeshka. If the PC is a drow, the guards and Neeshka will be initially terrified or when you meet the merchant in the starter village, he begins terrified of you.)

In my opinion, mechanically speaking, most of Eilistraee worshippers that have been surface-dwelling for generations should be statted as wood elves and/or high elves. (Similar to how High Elves in Faerun are split between Sun Elves and Moon Elves) And calling them drow seems wrong, because again, that means traitor, but they do share a lot of cultural similarities with drow because they do accept a lot converts.

But. Eilistraee's followers don't frequent major cities too much. They tend to dwell in hidden areas or close to openings to the Underdark or other dangerous locales because giving aid to the lost and hopeless is a major part of their philosophies.

However, Eilistraee's followers aren't the only large group non-Lloth following drow around. There's also the Vhaerun drow who are....basically capitalists. Vhaerun is as much an enemy of Lloth as Eilistraee is, though he's more motivated by selfish desires and hate than concern for his mortal elven kin. Vhaerun drow tend to be shady merchants (lots of hooks into smuggling, piracy, and human trafficking...though some are just actually legitimate merchants who tend to undercut people) as well as mercenaries. Most famous is the mercenary company of Bregan D'aerthe. To make a Star Trek comparison, think Ferengi philosophies, but Cardassian social graces. They're very similar to the modern Zhentarim, actually.

While most of my encounters in-game with Bregan D'aerthe are further north (Waterdeep and Luskan, specifically)...they're a pretty broad company (they've appeared in and around Amn in some novels). They are also not the only group of Vhaerun worshippers. And while Baldur's Gate (the city) doesn't have much in the way of attraction for Eilistraee worshippers, it is a thriving market place for Vhaerun worshippers.

Also note that the PC and other characters likely weren't captured in Baldur's Gate. So they could have been anywhere.

Also, the "Seldarine" drow still uses the same dialogue tags as Lloth-sworn...so they feel more like they're Dark Seladrine than Seldarine right now....

I'm assuming for now that Seldarine drow are mostly recent converts/escapees from Lloth-sworn societies (hopefully they'll give us Vhaerun as a worship option eventually.)

As to the "Dark Seldarine" other than Vhaerun (Eilistraee is fully accepted in the Seldarine at this point I think) they're mostly either not that interesting...Selvetarm actually manages to be less narratively interesting than Lloth...mostly because he's a Lloth-loyal fanatic that doesn't appear to have much more thought than a hungry gnoll…..or not very well organized like Kiaranslee and Ghaunadaur…

To tell the truth though, Kiaranslee might be interesting (drow goddess of undead, necromancy, and vengeance)

Anyway...that's the situation. 1480s surface drow still get side-eye but they aren't so unusual anymore.

Perhaps I should explain further, but if there is a feat then it is not out of the question that drow would be on the surface and not feeling any adverse effects without the assistance of the tadpole. There are surface drow and there are Underdark drow. The surface drow have just simply adapted to being able to not have the negative of suffering from the effects of being in daylight as their Underdark cousins have to deal with. Regardless, I brought this up to help solidify the point that daylight adaptation is both supported by the rules as well as is a thing. Sorry for the confusion.

Wow. Dropping science! Nice post.

I mean it is made pretty clear as you play the game that most characters with tadpoles do not know they have tadpoles, and they think they were instead chosen by the absolute. So certain characters are given tadpoles as gifts to empower them, Minthara is one of them. If I remember right the corpse of the drow in the druid grove gives you some more information on this too.

1) Since 5e, the lore also has been adjusted and Drow were elevated from KOS status to viewed with suspicion status. It is possible to have a Drow in Baldur's Gate.
2) Drow character was not necessarily picked up there.
3) They probably did not want to slap penalties on the race and tadpole is convenient loophole there that can be a valid explanation.

Nope, drow having some level of social acceptance above ground goes back to the early-90s. That's also when the guidebook to the drow came out and introduced Eilistrae, Vhaerun, and the like. 3.X is where they started getting playable PC stats (though they had ECL...so "playable" is more appropriate). The 00s is when you also started getting computer games with drow as a playable option (NWN2) or character (Demon Stone)....though, Zhai in Demon Stone is again more likely to be statted as a wood elf (her father is a wood elf at least, and she was raised among wood elves rather than drow).

Saying this change happened with 5e is just flat not true. In the real world, drow have had established surface presence and non-Lloth sworn communities for decades....in Faerun it's been at least 800 years and probably closer to 1000.

Drizzt first appeared in 1988, Qilue first appeared in 1995. Liriel Baenre first appeared in 1995 (I originally posted 2003, but I had a re-release copy for comparison, felt wrong as I remember reading it high school, so double checked and yep, mid-90s). Eilistraee and Vhaeraun were introduced in 1991. And both Eilistraee and Vhaeraun at the time were established as being primarily concerned with the surface (Vhaeraun is actually considered the god of dealing with the surface among drow.)

So 2nd edition AD&D is when non-Lloth sworn drow were being established and when significant surface settlements were established as a thing.

The OP didn't get the memo. Tadpole.

There is another hint as well on the surface. Remember this drow armor you find and the narrator says it has lost all its magical properties?

Because at their Hearts, Drow are Expansionists. For the last 2000 years, they've been shackled to the underdark by Lloth. She's literally been holding them back.

Over the last 2 centuries, the Drow have been infiltrating all the major cities across the Sword Coast, whether through crime syndicates or politics.
Undoubtedly Baldur's Gate has tens, if not hundreds of Drow skulking the shadows, or walking around in broad daylight. Many have adapted to surface.



This uses the assumption that the Illithid that caused all of this, was from an underdark colony, and ignores the fact that the Underdark Illithid do not have nautiloids. They lost that knowledge. (This is from what we know from previous games and lore)

This Illithid most definitely doesn't come from the Underdark, nor the Astral Sea. IMO, (and this was my theory even before EA) It hails from the Shadowfell, and may have came back around the same time as Thultanthar, or used similar teleportation magic to leave the Shadowfell. Given the prior NWN games, and the recent interventions by the Netherese in the novels, the Illithid colonies struggling to maintain order against rogue illithid. It's only a matter of time for Illithid that have been outcast by the material plane Illithid, to come back with vengeance, and show off their superiority.

I think it's just as possible that had our ship not been attacked, we may have no memory of the tadpole and support the Absolute too. Maybe the attack interrupted the process and is why the Absolute is putting so much effort into finding survivors of the crash.

Wonder if that mindflayer from the ship&gobbo camp was a member of the "absolute unity' circle or he was the one who slayed his own kin. There are at least few dead mindflayers on the board. Someone in game call us, survivors, as "spies".

Also - 5th Edition D&D the only penalty for Drow is disadvantage in daylight, but like someone mentioned penalties for races are going away soon... But as it stands there's no reason NOT to see Drow on the surface. If you played through the entire EA at this point you'll find many other people infected that never was related to the intro story line. So yes, even allies of the mind flayers will be infected.

The story is different if you are a drow.
1) You are no Baldurian
2) Drow (at least Lolth's) gets an extra cutscene explaining that your character was doing sacrifice at Lolth's alter when squids dragged her/him to the ship

The same question could be asked about Astarion but you come to realize that the tadpole allows him to walk in the daylight despite him being a vampire

I love it .

FAQ

Q - Why does "insert lore/rule breaking question".
A - The tadpole did it.

Response - that proves it!!!

Not a fan of one size fits all plot items that conveniently explain everything that doesn't make sense. I know we are really early in the story but there is only so many McGuffin based explainations I can take before it becomes satirical. I mean why couldn't a vampire have found a magic ring or something that broke his masters hold and allows daywalking? Break up plot convenience if you know what I mean? He could have paid a group of adventurerers to raid a tomb for the ring but shortly after recieving the ring was snatched by squiddies? Meh. Drow skin cream and contact lenses? Maybe even a magic hat or cloak? .

Why are all the party members stuck in overly dramatic personal situations? Can't just be a guy that was eating a hotdog after visiting the brothal then got swiped by the illithids? Maybe I am being unfair and jumping the gun, I should really wait until more of the story unfolds.

Except this question has existing explanation in the lore for as far back as 1991, so people saying "tadpole did it" are just making an assumptions rather than looking up the lore. It's basically become short hand for "not important, moving on".

At this point the only stuff I could point to as being "tadpole did it" is Astarion walking around in the sun (very plot convenience, I agree, but the vampire in BG2 had that cloak that was similarly there just to make gameplay with that companion not a chore) and our character having some burgeoning psionic ability.

what happened to the 6 spell resistance(SR) per lvl ?

drow are not drow anymore

Certainly possible, but my impression is that we saw what would have happened to us in the pod you can activate. We can be turned to full-blown mind flayers with a push of a lever. I doubt they let just any random people they pick up lead the troops of the absolute, much more likely those are picked and chosen from already loyal followers instead of the randomness of a nautiloid abduction.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Drow
Magic Resistance
Drow had tremendous resistance to magic.[9][8] During infancy, it fluctuated between almost non-existent and youth-level, and stabilized as they grew up. It increased again when they reached adulthood, and could be trained even further.[83]

The fluctuations of resistance against magic in drow infants was a lethal danger, leading to the development of the potion of magic resistance to stabilize it.[83]

Even when a drow's magic resistance was overcome, they could handle magical attacks quite well and had a better chance than other races at resisting them,[83] especially spells that attempted to bend their will.[9]

Sunlight
Drow had a weakness against light in general. For example, a common or untrained drow could neither use nor maintain their innate abilities under the effect of light that was as bright as, or brighter than, sunlight. Noble drow could use up to one innate ability in bright light. However, the drow developed a method to defend themselves against light through the use of the hand of darkness spell.[83] Before the 1360s DR, the drow had used to gradually lose their base and mature powers as well as their defenses against magic, if exposed to sunlight.[112] However, during the 1360s DR, Liriel Baenre, guided by Eilistraee,[113] carved her rune in the Child of the Yggdrasil with the intent of preserving her own drow magic away from the Underdark,[114] but the act ended up allowing all drow to keep their powers on the surface.[115] Despite Eilistraee guiding Liriel, speculations were that Lolth also had a hand in the matter.[115]
It took a drow about ten years of exposure to get used to the sunlight and to use their infravision and normal vision simultaneously. Initial exposure to sunlight was dangerous for a drow and cause of heavy sunburns. Even after getting used to the sunlight, drow had a strong tendency to cover their skin and head.[116]
Besides physical effects, bright light also limited drow activity, for they could not do anything effectively during daytime.[92]

so the disadvantage(sunlight sensitivity) still persisted even after the event of 1360s and even if the drow is exposed to 10 years of sunlight .
before it was impossible for them to walk on the surface(except with a magic amulet/spell , name it ), now the can walk and fight, but with a disadvantage.