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This is not a "hate on Lae'zel" thread (for the record she's actually my favorite NPC), but it seems to me that the most likely outcome of going to a Gith creche is one of the following:

1) Lae'zel knows that she, and the entire party, will be killed pursuant to protocol, and the talk of a cure is false, intended to ensure compliance - the only reason I would doubt this possibility is that there are other ways to kill us and she's taking the risk of dying herself and not being able to ensure we bite the dust too (also her int and wis are high enough that she should know any plan that depends on her ability to deceive or persuade people is doomed from the start, or is lack of self awareness why cha is her dump stat?)
2) Lae'zel doesn't know because she's not senior enough yet, but while trainees are told to report to a creche for a cure, the actual protocol is to kill them under circumstances where you can be confident of success, and talk of a cure is false, intended to ensure compliance.

While I have no doubt that the Gith know more about ceremorphosis than anyone other than a mind-flayer, I do doubt they have enough access to recently infected hosts (ie before the point of no return) to have come up with a reliable cure, and given the nature of Gith culture I strongly suspect "life is cheap" is part of their philosophy and they have limited motivation to go out of their way to cure someone.

I personally suspect item 2 (I think it is more consistent with how the Gith knight acted, and also more plausible than Lae'zel's theory as to why things went down the way they did, and also more useful for the game when Lae'zel becomes playable as your MC) and is part of a story arc where in a later act she will, if her opinion of you is high enough, ultimately side with you in a conflict with her kin.

It's almost a shame that the NPCs will be playable "origin" characters. I like not being sure what their real agendas are, and I would actually have preferred that the scene with Raphael be animated such that it looks like you're alone in the room with him so you don't know what he said to the others or what their response was. That said, I will be very interested to see how the tutorial and content immediately after the crash plays out with different origin characters. If you're playing Lae'zel, do you meet someone else in the tutorial?

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I'm confused, you are attempting to "predict" something the game is already showing in no dubious terms.

Also, no, she's not deliberately trying to mislead you.
It's more a case of her being exceedingly naive about it and facing a wake up call.

Last edited by Tuco; 07/11/20 07:03 PM.

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I do rather think that she is only marginally aware of her own culture and how they deal with tadpoles. She is not told anything, I believe. Or, since they make a total fuss to rescue her in the intro, she is very important and does not want to tell and/or that someone in the Gith society wants her dead. I still suspect she is some form of princess, messias incarnate, heiress, the breaker of chains and dragon necks etc., because there must not be normal, frontline grunt companions.

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Honestly I still believe that Gith do have a cure and it's just that the Gith knight we meet is an ass.

Like, how could the Gith wage war against the mindflayers for (? eons?) and not have developed a cure?? (spoiler hag)
Some random hag we meet says she could cure us, and only can't because our tadpole is protected by other magic.

It would be pretty incompetent on their part if the Gith hadn't figured out a reliable way to remove a just-inserted tadpole.

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I thought the Gith were chasing Shadowheart (or her little contraption) rather than Lae'zel.

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When you mind delve into her after interrogating Zorru you essentially learn she see us as Mind-Flayers already, so I don't think there's any real ambiguity about what she feels our fate should be.

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Originally Posted by VincentNZ
I do rather think that she is only marginally aware of her own culture and how they deal with tadpoles. She is not told anything, I believe. Or, since they make a total fuss to rescue her in the intro, she is very important and does not want to tell and/or that someone in the Gith society wants her dead. I still suspect she is some form of princess, messias incarnate, heiress, the breaker of chains and dragon necks etc., because there must not be normal, frontline grunt companions.


Maybe she was a handmaid of the Githyanki Queen?
I don't mean handmaid in the sense of just a servant, but sorta like the Sisters of Avelorn in Warhammer.

Granted I am not super read up on their lore here, but her obsession with the Queen would make a lot of sense then.

Edit: Also haha, she made me think of Jon in Season 8 of GoT.

'' MUH QUEEN! ''

Last edited by Svalr; 07/11/20 07:22 PM.
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Originally Posted by Svalr
Originally Posted by VincentNZ
I do rather think that she is only marginally aware of her own culture and how they deal with tadpoles. She is not told anything, I believe. Or, since they make a total fuss to rescue her in the intro, she is very important and does not want to tell and/or that someone in the Gith society wants her dead. I still suspect she is some form of princess, messias incarnate, heiress, the breaker of chains and dragon necks etc., because there must not be normal, frontline grunt companions.


Maybe she was a handmaid of the Githyanki Queen?
I don't mean handmaid in the sense of just a servant, but sorta like the Sisters of Avelorn in Warhammer.

Pretty sure she's just a normal gith who has an over-inflated sense of importance and is brainwashed to worship her queen.
Her whole goal is to "bring back a mindflayer head to her Queen (something that all githyanki have to do in order to become accepted) and become a gith knight." At least in my conversations with her, she never mentioned royalty...??

I also don't think they're trying to rescue her in the intro. They're just trying to kill the mindflayers on that ship, as gith are wont to do.

If I missed some dialogue implying otherwise, please let me know!

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They are after artifact stolen by SH.

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I'm with the "Wake up Call" -- yes the creche will be another fight but I don't think Lae'zel is in on it. We know Vlaakith deceives the Gith, I'm guess that the purification ritual was lie told to LZ.

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Originally Posted by Verte
They are after artifact stolen by SH.

oh right, duh. I guess I've been assuming that SH stole the arfifact from the mindflayer ship, but that actually doesn't make sense since she was trapped the whole time...
So wait, SH had the artifact. Had brought it back to BG3, almost completing her mission. But right before she delivered it, a mindflayer ship happened to spirit her away??? Talk about unlucky

Either way, this still supports my theory that Lae'zel is a complete nobody.

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Originally Posted by FaultyValve
I think Lae'zel might be more than she's told us. She talks to that githyanki knight like she's higher than he is unless we intervene...then they attack us, but that's not the point...


I picked up on that too, I've begun to wonder if her constantly referencing Vlaakith as the mother to all Githyanki is more than metaphorical for her.

Originally Posted by Vamathi
If you really want to know if your companions are hiding something from you, look at this:

Looking at this I find it especially telling that Lae'zel is the only character that doesn't get an option that deals with her past.

The mirror thing is especially pertinent here I reckon, I think they might have taken it out of the EA so as to not reveal Lae'zel's backstory too much.

Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I'm with the "Wake up Call" -- yes the creche will be another fight but I don't think Lae'zel is in on it. We know Vlaakith deceives the Gith, I'm guess that the purification ritual was lie told to LZ.


This makes the most sense, considering there's very little reason for her to party up with you on any quest while her loyalty to the Githyanki is still unquestioned.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Either way, this still supports my theory that Lae'zel is a complete nobody.


She's not a complete nobody, she does at least have some achievements under her belt -

she tells you about raiding a beholder lair (IIRC) and some other battles with her kin


- so she might be on the same level as Wyll.

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Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Either way, this still supports my theory that Lae'zel is a complete nobody.


She's not a complete nobody, she does at least have some achievements under her belt -

she tells you about raiding a beholder lair (IIRC) and some other battles with her kin


- so she might be on the same level as Wyll.


Either that or she's lying, I don't want to mention who because I don't want to spoil but there is a certain someone in Pathfinder Kingmaker who does this and lies about their accomplishments.

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Lae'zel is my favourite NPC. Integrity, naivety, and hopefully - a capability to change her worldview, losing tunnel vision, under the duress of adventuring (and seeing choices made by the main character). Larian, not a complete turnaround of a character, please - just when she'll understand that she is fully betrayed by her own people, she will need someone who has already proven reliable to trust in (thus affecting her mindset).

She sincerely thinks that all the infected have to die under gith control if Vlaakith commands, but she will save her child, won't she? (<no>), it's just she isn't afraid of this fate, while other, lesser creatures (us), are afraid and will try to escape this fate, probably making it worse for the world (making more mind flayers out of ourselves and going into hiding, thus making the hunting of us harder).

She really believes that with all her heart, that's why her deception isn't that obvious, while self-deception is.

Last edited by Ellenhard; 07/11/20 08:09 PM. Reason: double wording edit
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Originally Posted by Svalr
Either that or she's lying, I don't want to mention who because I don't want to spoil but there is a certain someone in Pathfinder Kingmaker who does this and lies about their accomplishments.

please tell me it's not
Amiri

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I picked up on that too, I've begun to wonder if her constantly referencing Vlaakith as the mother to all Githyanki is more than metaphorical for her.


Interesting, that would make sense of the dragon riding gith mentioning that her name seemed "regal".

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
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I picked up on that too, I've begun to wonder if her constantly referencing Vlaakith as the mother to all Githyanki is more than metaphorical for her.


Interesting, that would make sense of the dragon riding gith mentioning that her name seemed "regal".


Yeah, it was that line that tipped it over for me

Last edited by Sozz; 07/11/20 09:30 PM.
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Love this thread. I had my opinion but now I wonder...

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Could be. The first time I heard her call herself "child of Vlaakith", I took it completely literally and assumed she was a githyanki princess, since I knew nothing about the culture, but as I played the game more I came to the conclusion that it was just what githyanki call themselves. Maybe Larian is being super clever here.

Isn't Vlaakith a lich, though? Can they even... never mind, don't want to think about it.

Last edited by Tarlonniel; 07/11/20 09:55 PM.
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