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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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Good jokes, but I have to agree with the OP. Bioware games like DA:O are very consistent in establishing a mood, supported by world building, story, characters, music, presentation, gameplay, that feels like an immersive, traditional fantasy novel.
Larian games like DOS:1, DOS:2 and now BG:3 feel like a theme park of random fantasy cliches. The mood is all over the place. And this is true for every building block, starting with the highly inconsistent maps, a collection of party members that make the doom patrol look like average joes, gameplay elements that feel like shenanigans from a mischievous teenie comedy, a tutorial that starts with the DnD equivalent of an alien attack combined with an earthquake etc. etc.
DA:O, if it were a movie, would have been a moderately successful rip-off of LotR. BG:3, as well as its spiritual predecessors DOS:1 and DOS:2, would be in production hell, where the A team thought it was doing a spoof movie, the B team thought it was doing a melodrama, the writers thought they were creating a TV action series that is really a deep political allegory tackling a different topic each episode, the director would have a psychotic breakdown in the cutting room, and the producer would be fixated on the CGI action and the sex scenes and would want to publish the whole thing anyway, because that's what people pay to see, in the end. LOL, so much this!
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2020
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Playing BG3 should feel like you're reading an epic fantasy novel. Unfortunately, BG3 has some elements which makes me feel like I'm reading a fairy tale. "Talking to animals and corpses" Talking to animals it's optional and can be ignored afaik. Talking to corpses is part of some quests, it's necromancy, I don't know if that is or not part of D&D lore. I gave the amulet to Lae'zel, she is quite the talker (didn't object), so the main character isn't involved. "Witch in a cabin" That old lady isn't a witch, but a hag. Green Hag (I think that's D&D lore agan, but can't confirm). Should be the same, but Baldur's Gate calls them Hag. I met an NPC in BG2 recently (just started BG2 first time) and she insisted that what they have in that castle is a "cellar", not a dungeon... I would agree that some things feel out of place (though can't any at moment, maybe the constant explosive barrels and the overuse of acid and fire surfaces), but these 2 not quite, except the talking with animals (but if can be safely ignored shouldn't be an issue). Also aren't fantasy novels & fairy tales the same (except their length) in the same way the witch & hag are related? Fairytale fantasy
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2020
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BG:3, as well as its spiritual predecessors DOS:1 and DOS:2, would be in production hell, where the A team thought it was doing a spoof movie, the B team thought it was doing a melodrama, the writers thought they were creating a TV action series that is really a deep political allegory tackling a different topic each episode, the director would have a psychotic breakdown in the cutting room, and the producer would be fixated on the CGI action and the sex scenes and would want to publish the whole thing anyway, because that's what people pay to see, in the end.
That sounds like the ending episodes of the Game of Thrones.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Playing baldurs gate 3 should feel like a hard scifi novel, can we get some accurate fight dynamics for the nautiloid please, anything would destroy my verisimilitude.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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Well BG3 does feel like it was written by a horny creative writing intern that saw the front cover of the D&D adventure novel and instantly became an expert though the picture on the front cover. I fail to understand how suggesting that creative and immersive world building is "being a dick"? Meh.
Some of the characters are okay, not particularly interesting enough to want to play origin stories though. I understand there are generic NPC personality types in RL like Wyll and Ast.....the vampire guy that acts like a celebrity wedding planner, but they don't translate to interesting NPC's in game. Gale is pretty interesting from a "no I don't want to bump uglies mate cheers" kind of way and Shadowheart acts like a 46 year old demented purple haired emo chick in need of HRT. Lae'zel acts like Gith, angry, bossy, superiority complex.....hates everyone including herself, pretty good actually.
All have wildly unlikely and overly complex personal dilemmas. The unlikely part being you all happen to be in the same group because "the script" needs it to be that way. Generic McGuffin based storyline, "we all have a thing, lets work together and go find someone that knows of thing". Everyone you meet in EA cannot help you because "script error".
SPOILERS
Devil - I can remove the tadpole
You - ok then go ahead mate
Devil - No have to wait because.....Mooooooooooo
Devil - Pooooof!
You - Eh? Weirdo
Druid - I can help you
You - Ok mate crack on
Druid - Oh no I need you to kill 500 goblins first
You - ok all dead, now remove the thing
Druid - No lets wait and piss about Ill do it later
You - Okay
later......
You - Ok dicksplash remove the fucking tadpole
Druid - I cannot but I know a man who can, he just so happens to be in a dangerous place where I need to go to solve some personal BS
You - So I just fucked about for 3 weeks doing a bunch of bullshit only for you to tell me that? Bollocks! I am going to kill EVERYONE
Hag - I can remove the tadpole
You - FFS you better not be bullshitting cus everyone seems to be taking the piss recently
Hag - No mate I just need one of your balls
You - I don't have balls I am a bird
Hag - My bad one of your eyes then
You - Will it blind me?
Hag - Narrr I just like to fiddle with it for a second for no reason
You - That's not wierd at all and I am not even curious from this point, so what the hell
Hag - POP, cheers for that
You - Ow
Hag - Lets remove the tadpole........Oh no I can't it's a naughty magic tadpole, soz
You - .........growling
Hag - We cool right? 'holds out fist'
You - ARRRRRR SMASH!!
So act 1 is basically running all over the place doing a load of crap for bunch of lying arsewipes only to be left at square one..... Progress! You did learn to hate pretty much everyone you met during this shitshow. I think killing everyone including Druids, Tieflings, Fay and goblins....then eating them, is the next playthough. Leave the entire map dead, burn it all down. Ill keep the damn tadpole, by this point it hasn't screwed me over. I want to be a mindflayer, screw it Ill move to the underdark.
I forgot the dynamic choice engine.
Choice 1) Not fight, pending dice roll
Choice 2) Fight
Disclaimer - ^^^^ this is satire for the ironically challenged.
Adding the ability to chat with everything living or dead has left the real dialogue stretched thin. The guys in your camp you speak to alot have like 3 lines each. I understand what OP is getting at. It is early in EA so I assume it will get filled out.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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Playing BG3 should feel like you're reading an epic fantasy novel. Unfortunately, BG3 has some elements which makes me feel like I'm reading a fairy tale. So, I think that at least these elements should be removed from the game:
Talking to animals and corpses
I have read a lot of fantasy novels, and none of them has a main character who talks to all the animals and corpses he sees. This mechanic gives the game a comedic element, but it takes away epicness from the world and the story.
Witch in a cabin
This storyline is directly from fairy tales, and it should not be part of an epic fantasy story. The biggest problem is that the witch is an empty stereotype, who hurts people because she is evil. Turn her into a sorceress, who has a real background and motives. Also, she should not be completely evil. You are aware of that a lot of fantasy novels contains elements of what you call "fairy tales", right? What you might deem appropriate in a fantasy novel might not be ideal or appropriate for another person/player. I play all RPGs with the same mindset - I use them as an alternative to reading fantasy novels (which I do... A LOT), and I don't think BG3 has failed in that perspective, quite the opposite. Using your own examples: a hag in the swamp is a bit stereotypical, sure. But where's the harm in that? I loved that part, especially singe my ranger had unique responses that I felt was really appropriate to the situation. And talking to animals... Like, uhm... Lord of the Rings, one of the most famous fantasy serie of all times contain characters that can talk to animals - like Radagast. If it is appropriate for your character (which is decided by no one else but the player), then what is the issue? :x Just because something might be common in "fairy tales", doesn't mean that is out of place in a fantasy novel. <.< I mean, if we are gonna get REALLY technical, "fairy tales" per definition is just short stories made up from difference aspects of folk lore. Almost all fantasy novels are also, at least partly, inspired by folk lore ... :x Pretty much this. Every fantasy story is full of tropes. Simply due to the sheer volume of fantasy available, no matter how you uniquely you flavor it, you're going to find patterns that relate to other stories, and as far as optional story based stuff(and even the combat related complaints like about barrelmancy) are negated by simply ignoring them when you see fit. Even then, talking with animals and dead people is an actual thing in Dungeons and Dragons, and some characters actually are able to speak with them at will, but whether they choose to or not is entirely on them. It might be pointless or a waste of time to talk to every animal you see, but at least the game gives us that choice.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2020
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I'm pretty sick of every single criticism of this game having a legion of obnoxious trolls pouncing on it with stuff like "TROLL!" or "can't tell if serious" etc
There are a lot of legitimate gripes about this game
The awful characters, whimsical writing, lack of BG-esque anything, are all serious concerns that longtime fans of the series have
A bunch of late teens / early 20s diehard DOS fans don't change that.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2016
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I'm pretty sick of every single criticism of this game having a legion of obnoxious trolls pouncing on it with stuff like "TROLL!" or "can't tell if serious" etc
There are a lot of legitimate gripes about this game
The awful characters, whimsical writing, lack of BG-esque anything, are all serious concerns that longtime fans of the series have
A bunch of late teens / early 20s diehard DOS fans don't change that. Harsh and disrespectful statement but I can relate and therefore have to agree on this.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Playing baldurs gate 3 should feel like a hard scifi novel, can we get some accurate fight dynamics for the nautiloid please, anything would destroy my verisimilitude. If we don't get to use our bonus action Shove to push some fools into the hard vacuum of space, I'm gonna riot.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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I'm pretty sick of every single criticism of this game having a legion of obnoxious trolls pouncing on it with stuff like "TROLL!" or "can't tell if serious" etc
There are a lot of legitimate gripes about this game
The awful characters, whimsical writing, lack of BG-esque anything, are all serious concerns that longtime fans of the series have
A bunch of late teens / early 20s diehard DOS fans don't change that. "LoNg TiMe FaNs Of ThE sErIeS" dude it's a 22 year old game that had a single sequel nearly 20 years ago. If you want YET ANOTHER Infinity Engine clone, there's a shit ton available, go play one of those. That's not what this developer is doing, and you probably wasted your money hoping for one. For every one of you people who want an updated Icewind Dale, there's probably another 10 who like the direction this game is going.
Last edited by Patient; 09/11/20 05:17 AM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2016
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I'm pretty sick of every single criticism of this game having a legion of obnoxious trolls pouncing on it with stuff like "TROLL!" or "can't tell if serious" etc
There are a lot of legitimate gripes about this game
The awful characters, whimsical writing, lack of BG-esque anything, are all serious concerns that longtime fans of the series have
A bunch of late teens / early 20s diehard DOS fans don't change that. "LoNg TiMe FaNs Of ThE sErIeS" dude it's a 22 year old game that had a single sequel nearly 20 years ago. If you want YET ANOTHER Infinity Engine clone, there's a shit ton available, go play one of those. That's not what this developer is doing, and you probably wasted your money hoping for one. For every one of you people who want an updated Icewind Dale, there's probably another 10 who like the direction this game is going. Ok zoomer!
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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No good argument can come from starting with "BG should feel.."
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Cleric of Innuendo
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Cleric of Innuendo
Joined: Oct 2020
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I'm pretty sick of every single criticism of this game having a legion of obnoxious trolls pouncing on it with stuff like "TROLL!" or "can't tell if serious" etc
There are a lot of legitimate gripes about this game
The awful characters, whimsical writing, lack of BG-esque anything, are all serious concerns that longtime fans of the series have
A bunch of late teens / early 20s diehard DOS fans don't change that. People are free to express their opinions, so long as they are not going for personally offensive or breaking any laws. Those opinions may be positive or negative. When you see posters making fun of a topic, it is generally a sign that they do not agree with the OPs position and find it so strange an idea as to be funny. It is better to use humour than insults and attacks. Childish, perhaps, but sometimes we like to go down that route as an escape from the Real World. Better childish than snarky and inflammatory. Calling people trolls all the time is pretty tiresome and a lazy go-to, but so is labelling people as, "A bunch of late teens / early 20s diehard DOS fan". That you complained about people calling 'troll' whilst simultaneously calling 'troll' does very little for any legitimate argument you may have.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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I'm pretty sick of every single criticism of this game having a legion of obnoxious trolls pouncing on it with stuff like "TROLL!" or "can't tell if serious" etc
There are a lot of legitimate gripes about this game
The awful characters, whimsical writing, lack of BG-esque anything, are all serious concerns that longtime fans of the series have
A bunch of late teens / early 20s diehard DOS fans don't change that. You can't complain about people calling people trolls, while calling them trolls. All of your gripes are just your opinion. You're welcome to have your opinion, you're welcome to express your opinion, you're welcome to try to convince others of the merit of your opinion. But don't act like your opinion is objective fact. I like the characters and the writing, and I think this is a perfectly good Baldur's Gate game. And I was playing Dungeons and Dragons in 1985, so don't try to discount anyone who disagrees with you by implying that they all must be young and clueless. There are persuasive ways to make your arguments. Insulting people is not one of them.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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BG3 shoul feel like a cringe post
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2020
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I just want the game be made how I want it. Clear?! That's why I paid 250 billion $ and will pay 500 billion $ when will be ready. The age of custom built games is here.
Also don't care what others want, especially the developers and owners of the company making it. They don't know what sells, what is fun and how to make it properly.
Last edited by LoneSky; 09/11/20 12:54 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2020
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I'm pretty sick of every single criticism of this game having a legion of obnoxious trolls pouncing on it with stuff like "TROLL!" or "can't tell if serious" etc
There are a lot of legitimate gripes about this game
The awful characters, whimsical writing, lack of BG-esque anything, are all serious concerns that longtime fans of the series have
A bunch of late teens / early 20s diehard DOS fans don't change that. "LoNg TiMe FaNs Of ThE sErIeS" dude it's a 22 year old game that had a single sequel nearly 20 years ago. If you want YET ANOTHER Infinity Engine clone, there's a shit ton available, go play one of those. That's not what this developer is doing, and you probably wasted your money hoping for one. For every one of you people who want an updated Icewind Dale, there's probably another 10 who like the direction this game is going. "dUDe iTs a 22 yEaR oLD GaME" They chose to call it BG3 and try to take on that legacy, only for the team to put zero (0, zilch, nada) effort into making it feel like a baldurs gate game. You'd expect the team to have familiar themes, writing, atmosphere, even UI and music callbacks - newp. Metroid Prime by Retro Studios did a great job of recapturing the essence of a Metroid game while making it completely new, and different XCOM: EU (2012) by Firaxis did a great job of recapturing the essence of an XCOM game while making it new and different Larian hasn't even bothered. I couldn't care less that it's not an IE game. I want a game that feels like a Baldurs Gate game - and this one doesn't.
Last edited by merkmerk73; 09/11/20 04:17 PM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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No good argument can come from starting with "BG should feel.." That isn't an argument.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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No good argument can come from starting with "BG should feel.." That isn't an argument. from another post of mine: Why people play Baldur's Gate - I talked about it at length in my previous post, but people play Baldur's Gate for many reasons. That's why people keep complaining BG3 doesn't "feel" like Baldur's Gate but when asked for specific reason why, has no conclusive answer (I've seen many different answers, from things like day/night circle, fun characters, RTwP, and more). For me, the main reason to play Baldur's Gate is the attention to details in the storytelling. It's hard to think of other things Bioware games had in common other than that. But since Knights of the old Republic until mass effect 3, there are not many other things Bioware games had in common. And I feel this is important. The context of the post was my answer to the Gameplay Vs story discussion going on sometimes here. It doesn't even matter whether you agree with me or not. The point is, that BG "feels" quite different for different people. and you can't create anything based on it unless you try to give us something more conclusive than feelings.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2013
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man so many people have no idea.
But i suppose thats a given. Most fantasy novels are trash afterall, so no wonder that people who are into that also enjoy trash and cannot enjoy some whimsy every now and then.
maybe as a science fiction man myself i just cannot get into the cringey kind of fantasy that takes itself too seriously in the vein of Dragon Age.
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