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Originally Posted by Gaidax
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Allowing Wizards to scribe Cleric spells is a rules change.


This one is a bug, really. Scrolls currently are unrestricted in both scribing and use, it will be changed.

I think it's important to recognize that quite a lot of what we have now is an unfinished, bugged or placeholder.


I think many of the changes Larian did are good, they clearly want players to have more action paths when their turn finally comes and I'm behind it. I think they should reconsider things like "Hide" maybe there, because that one is super abusive now.



Oh damn. Another clairvoyant guy

If the homebrew feels too dumb = bug
If the homebrew feels nice = Larian rocks

Where the heck have you read in Larian official post that this is a bug?

Oh, that high ground advantage is not a bug because you like it. Clearly not a bug.

World is crowded of this kind of ocasional selfish ppl.

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Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Gaidax
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Allowing Wizards to scribe Cleric spells is a rules change.


This one is a bug, really. Scrolls currently are unrestricted in both scribing and use, it will be changed.

I think it's important to recognize that quite a lot of what we have now is an unfinished, bugged or placeholder.


I think many of the changes Larian did are good, they clearly want players to have more action paths when their turn finally comes and I'm behind it. I think they should reconsider things like "Hide" maybe there, because that one is super abusive now.



Oh damn. Another clairvoyant guy

If the homebrew feels too dumb = bug
If the homebrew feels nice = Larian rocks

Where the heck have you read in Larian official post that this is a bug?

Oh, that high ground advantage is not a bug because you like it. Clearly not a bug.

World is crowded of this kind of ocasional selfish ppl.


+1

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BG3 doesn't feel like either BG or D&D.

That's the problem. Until Larian addresses this, BG3 will be forever known as DOS3: Forgotten Realms.

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I just wish they would stop thinking they know better than the 5E designers when it comes to what is fun.

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@millenialboomer +1 That's where the mistake started. 5th ed had been playtested and didn't need modification.

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They clearly believed some changes were necessary for the benefit of the computer game version. They are the game developers here - we are not.
It’s their game & their vision of how this d&d world is best played in pc version.
You don’t have to like it - but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Tarorn
They clearly believed some changes were necessary for the benefit of the computer game version. They are the game developers here - we are not.
It’s their game & their vision of how this d&d world is best played in pc version.
You don’t have to like it - but it is what it is.


What we know is that they don't like the "miss" too often thing.
And I'm really fine with custom mechanics (such as surfaces or backstab) that give players more tactical options to increase our % to hit.

But actually the game doesn't feel D&D at all in combats because "their vision" completely altered what D&D is.

Of course no one knows if their will is to create a D&D game in a Larian setting or a Larian game in a D&D setting.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 09/11/20 09:10 AM.
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All they did was graft whatever 5e rules would fit on the DOS2 engine, adapted a few rules to jury-rig DOS2 features in to the game, and then threw the rest out in favour of DOS2 mechanics.

BG3 is just a heavily modded DOS2.

BG3 feels like neither BG nor D&D, but it sure feels a hell of a lot like DOS2.

Last edited by tsundokugames; 09/11/20 07:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by tsundokugames
All they did was graft whatever 5e rules would fit on the DOS2 engine, adapted a few rules to jury-rig DOS2 features in to the game, and then threw the rest out in favour of DOS2 mechanics.

BG3 is just a heavily modded DOS2.

BG3 feels like neither BG nor D&D, but it sure feels a hell of a lot like DOS2.

You've obviously not played much in DoS.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by tsundokugames
All they did was graft whatever 5e rules would fit on the DOS2 engine, adapted a few rules to jury-rig DOS2 features in to the game, and then threw the rest out in favour of DOS2 mechanics.

BG3 is just a heavily modded DOS2.

BG3 feels like neither BG nor D&D, but it sure feels a hell of a lot like DOS2.

You've obviously not played much in DoS.

Because I didn't like it?

You can lie to yourself all you want, but the similarities between BG3 and DOS2 are glaring, and far more apparent than any connection to the previous BG games.

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Originally Posted by tsundokugames
All they did was graft whatever 5e rules would fit on the DOS2 engine, adapted a few rules to jury-rig DOS2 features in to the game, and then threw the rest out in favour of DOS2 mechanics.

BG3 is just a heavily modded DOS2.

BG3 feels like neither BG nor D&D, but it sure feels a hell of a lot like DOS2.



I agree that, so far, it doesn't feel a whole lot like the previous Baldur's Gate games. But it definitely feels like D&D. It feels more like D&D to me than most of the D&D games ever made.

If this wasn't called Baldur's Gate 3, and wasn't officially called a D&D game, and people played it, they would be saying, "This is a D&D game!" In fact, Larian would be getting sued by Wizards of the Coast for how much of the D&D brand suffuses every bit of this game.

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I think the game works incredibly well as it is. My only real objection is I would like greater reactivity of choices and their consequences, a lot tighter writing, more nuance in the storytelling, and appreciate more convincing characters. For me, everything more or less works well enough that all anything needs is a little fine tuning, but the writing is just so. . .mediocre. However, I have been fascinated with history and the humanities all my life and I imagine my standards for excellence are somewhat higher than the typical consumer for this type of project.

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Originally Posted by tsundokugames
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by tsundokugames
All they did was graft whatever 5e rules would fit on the DOS2 engine, adapted a few rules to jury-rig DOS2 features in to the game, and then threw the rest out in favour of DOS2 mechanics.

BG3 is just a heavily modded DOS2.

BG3 feels like neither BG nor D&D, but it sure feels a hell of a lot like DOS2.

You've obviously not played much in DoS.

Because I didn't like it?

You can lie to yourself all you want, but the similarities between BG3 and DOS2 are glaring, and far more apparent than any connection to the previous BG games.


I was supposed to write a post comparing BG3 and DoS2 but from what I see it won't make much sense.

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Originally Posted by Tarorn
They clearly believed some changes were necessary for the benefit of the computer game version. They are the game developers here - we are not.
It’s their game & their vision of how this d&d world is best played in pc version.
You don’t have to like it - but it is what it is.

Larian is soliciting our feedback. People are giving it.

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Originally Posted by DistantStranger
I think the game works incredibly well as it is. My only real objection is I would like greater reactivity of choices and their consequences, a lot tighter writing, more nuance in the storytelling, and appreciate more convincing characters. For me, everything more or less works well enough that all anything needs is a little fine tuning, but the writing is just so. . .mediocre. However, I have been fascinated with history and the humanities all my life and I imagine my standards for excellence are somewhat higher than the typical consumer for this type of project.



Not gonna lie, I don't even know what the phrase "tighter writing" means.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by DistantStranger
I think the game works incredibly well as it is. My only real objection is I would like greater reactivity of choices and their consequences, a lot tighter writing, more nuance in the storytelling, and appreciate more convincing characters. For me, everything more or less works well enough that all anything needs is a little fine tuning, but the writing is just so. . .mediocre. However, I have been fascinated with history and the humanities all my life and I imagine my standards for excellence are somewhat higher than the typical consumer for this type of project.



Not gonna lie, I don't even know what the phrase "tighter writing" means.


Think Hemingway. Choosing efficacy over the extraneous. Poetry and prose have their place, but when they become distracting or directionless they can fatigue the reader. At that point, one needs to pare back on their composition. Its shedding the fat, because lean writing can do more work with greater efficiency.

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Originally Posted by DistantStranger
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by DistantStranger
I think the game works incredibly well as it is. My only real objection is I would like greater reactivity of choices and their consequences, a lot tighter writing, more nuance in the storytelling, and appreciate more convincing characters. For me, everything more or less works well enough that all anything needs is a little fine tuning, but the writing is just so. . .mediocre. However, I have been fascinated with history and the humanities all my life and I imagine my standards for excellence are somewhat higher than the typical consumer for this type of project.



Not gonna lie, I don't even know what the phrase "tighter writing" means.


Think Hemingway. Choosing efficacy over the extraneous. Poetry and prose have their place, but when they become distracting or directionless they can fatigue the reader. At that point, one needs to pare back on their composition. Its shedding the fat, because lean writing can do more work with greater efficiency.


I personally think the writing is fine as it is for a game of this size. There are many good novels out there that you would find not so compelling if you had only a third of the whole story in hand. And it's exactly what we got in EA. So stating the writing is bad without having the full arc of certain characters is kind of premature, don't you think?

Last edited by Nyanko; 09/11/20 10:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by Nyanko


I personally think the writing is fine as it is for a game of this size. There are many good novels out there that you would find not so compelling if you had only a third of the whole story in hand. And it's exactly what we got in EA. So stating the writing is bad without having the full arc of certain characters is kind of premature.


I hate to break it to you, but beta readers and editors do precisely this a great deal of the time. Creatives rarely produce good copy initially. The process usually involves distilling things toward their most primal elements (chapters, scenes, and arcs) going over the chemistry then pooling it back together to see how it all looks. Sausages and novels are made in much the same way ;P

EDIT: Also, sticking the landing doesn't excuse a poor launch. In bits or as a whole everything needs to work.

Last edited by DistantStranger; 09/11/20 10:20 PM.
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lol, you want Hemmingway minimalism in a fantasy RPG?

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Not at all. It was an example, nothing more. I am also reading The Sun Also Rises again which is probably his best work and so he is simply on my mind. Don't make too much of it

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