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Great, thank you!

- “RNG isn’t the only thing that Larian has realised needs to be adjusted. Giving players things to do at the beginning is something that we've been struggling with,” admits Vincke, referring specifically to the limited collection of skills and abilities a low-level character has access to."

I'm not sure this problem was noticeable in the players feedback, compared to others. But they are giving it a thought anyway.

- “I didn't see that one coming. In hindsight, it's cool because it means [players] care.”

Come on. Don't you doubt the desire of your players to insert their opinion, heh. Now for the serious part:

- "But Vincke notes that there is something that Larian won’t budge on: narrative choice. It’s easy to think that if the data suggests players don’t opt for certain choices, then there’s no reason to dedicate resources to them. That won’t be the case, though.

- “The writers have a tendency of being good and not putting in the evil options,” Vincke says. “We had to actually force them to go through everything and put in more contrasting options so that they could put the evil ones in there.” It’s all about offering the players “real” choices, he explains - a variety of options falling all across the spectrum of morality, rather than just slight variations on ‘the good one’. “For choice to be there, you need to have the ability to do good and evil and things in between, and edge cases, and stuff like that. That is a modus operandi for the remainder of the game.”

Nice one! I really like solid stances on design choices, early mentioned.

- "There's certainly people that have had no moral scruples.”

Now, now, that's judging. First - characters, not people; second - you asked this yourself in a meta-narrative of the game designer. But some people won't go "evil way" even when asked like that, true;-)

- "But as for the flavour that the Larian team will create themselves? It’s actually closer to the general consensus of what players apparently want than you may imagine. “All of the things that people are suggesting were already on the list of things that we had to do,” says Vincke. “So they fit our roadmap. We are, to a large extent, in sync with our audience, I think. But there are things that we hadn't thought of. So it'll be interesting to see what they are going to add to the game.”

All of the things? Hmm, some are contradicting others, you know. Could you please give some specifics here?

All in all, seems Matt Purslow did a good job, and get us some bits. Not the juiciest ones, though. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Abits

This one is much better. It seems like the interviewer actually knows what he's talking about here and what to ask.

Definitely more BG3 game-focused than the TechRadar article. I get a sense, though, that many of the folks at Larian have not played a lot of tabletop D&D, just video game adaptations of it.

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“I can imagine that we will never manage to find the balance that will please everyone,” says Vincke. But, there is a (sort of) solution: “The game will be moddable eventually, so people will be able to make their mods. I expect multiple flavors of Baldur’s Gate 3 to come out of that. Over time there will be probably a flavor that will appeal hopefully to everybody.”

I think that's one of the most important part of the whole article tbh. ^^ I just hope they will make the " hot topics" moddable as easily as possible.


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Originally Posted by virion


“I can imagine that we will never manage to find the balance that will please everyone,” says Vincke. But, there is a (sort of) solution: “The game will be moddable eventually, so people will be able to make their mods. I expect multiple flavors of Baldur’s Gate 3 to come out of that. Over time there will be probably a flavor that will appeal hopefully to everybody.”

I think that's one of the most important part of the whole article tbh. ^^ I just hope they will make the " hot topics" moddable as easily as possible.

I said it before. aside from (perhaps) RTwP, there is no aspect of gameplay that would be impossible to mod. that's why I'm so pro story feedback and anti gameplay feedback. I don't mind if people post it, I just think that in a game like this with this kind of mod support, these topics are kind of a waste of time and resources.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by virion


“I can imagine that we will never manage to find the balance that will please everyone,” says Vincke. But, there is a (sort of) solution: “The game will be moddable eventually, so people will be able to make their mods. I expect multiple flavors of Baldur’s Gate 3 to come out of that. Over time there will be probably a flavor that will appeal hopefully to everybody.”

I think that's one of the most important part of the whole article tbh. ^^ I just hope they will make the " hot topics" moddable as easily as possible.

I said it before. aside from (perhaps) RTwP, there is no aspect of gameplay that would be impossible to mod. that's why I'm so pro story feedback and anti gameplay feedback. I don't mind if people post it, I just think that in a game like this with this kind of mod support, these topics are kind of a waste of time and resources.


I get what you're saying, but the story feedback is even harder to agree upon inside the player base. And giving everyone everything doesn't seem realistic to me. Crazy amount of dialogs and reactions to implement and polish after.

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Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by virion


“I can imagine that we will never manage to find the balance that will please everyone,” says Vincke. But, there is a (sort of) solution: “The game will be moddable eventually, so people will be able to make their mods. I expect multiple flavors of Baldur’s Gate 3 to come out of that. Over time there will be probably a flavor that will appeal hopefully to everybody.”

I think that's one of the most important part of the whole article tbh. ^^ I just hope they will make the " hot topics" moddable as easily as possible.

I said it before. aside from (perhaps) RTwP, there is no aspect of gameplay that would be impossible to mod. that's why I'm so pro story feedback and anti gameplay feedback. I don't mind if people post it, I just think that in a game like this with this kind of mod support, these topics are kind of a waste of time and resources.


Mods are great, but they're not an excuse for bad game mechanics. Modders shouldn't be expected to fix a game's problems. A game should stand on its own and not require mods to be enjoyable... or to fulfill marketing promises.

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Originally Posted by Ellenhard
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by virion


“I can imagine that we will never manage to find the balance that will please everyone,” says Vincke. But, there is a (sort of) solution: “The game will be moddable eventually, so people will be able to make their mods. I expect multiple flavors of Baldur’s Gate 3 to come out of that. Over time there will be probably a flavor that will appeal hopefully to everybody.”

I think that's one of the most important part of the whole article tbh. ^^ I just hope they will make the " hot topics" moddable as easily as possible.

I said it before. aside from (perhaps) RTwP, there is no aspect of gameplay that would be impossible to mod. that's why I'm so pro story feedback and anti gameplay feedback. I don't mind if people post it, I just think that in a game like this with this kind of mod support, these topics are kind of a waste of time and resources.


I get what you're saying, but the story feedback is even harder to agree upon inside the player base. And giving everyone everything doesn't seem realistic to me. Crazy amount of dialogs and reactions to implement and polish after.

True, but that is true about every kind of feedback. I don't think everyone agrees on anything here (maybe hate for Kagha but even that is doubtful).


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Originally Posted by virion


“I can imagine that we will never manage to find the balance that will please everyone,” says Vincke. But, there is a (sort of) solution: “The game will be moddable eventually, so people will be able to make their mods. I expect multiple flavors of Baldur’s Gate 3 to come out of that. Over time there will be probably a flavor that will appeal hopefully to everybody.”

I think that's one of the most important part of the whole article tbh. ^^ I just hope they will make the " hot topics" moddable as easily as possible.

Yup, this is the paragraph that got my attention and was the definitive part of the whole article. At a minimum, I now FINALLY get a clear sense from Swen Vincke himself that he understands there are multiple groups of people out there who are potential fans of BG3 and not just D:OS fans and TT D&D fans, and that he wants to try and make all the groups happy and not just some preferred ones. For the first time since the game was announced, I finally feel like I am included in this game.

Any Larian folks who see this, I hope you will pass this sentiment on to Swen himself if possible. I so appreciate him finally acknowledging fans like me!! smile

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Sven before : I'd love doing BG3 because I love the Baldur's Gate video games and D&D is awesome.

Sven today : D&D is not so fun, we have to custom everything^^

Last edited by Maximuuus; 10/11/20 06:14 PM.
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I for one quite optimistic after this interview. It's the first time some higher up on Larian addresses many of the issues we raised. And at least we got confirmation for mod support some time in the future


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Originally Posted by Abits
I for one quite optimistic after this interview. It's the first time some higher up on Larian addresses many of the issues we raised. And at least we got confirmation for mod support some time in the future


Which issues ? The D20 ?

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Originally Posted by Abits
I for one quite optimistic after this interview. It's the first time some higher up on Larian addresses many of the issues we raised. And at least we got confirmation for mod support some time in the future

Interview is nice and all; I wish they were a bit more in touch on forums (which look like they are stuck in 2005).
I wish we had more official interactions with the community and responding the feedback, hinting at what's to come next...
We had some of that, I just hope we won't be seeing less and less 'Community updates' as time goes.


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A roadmap would be really useful.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Sven before : I'd love doing BG3 because I love the Baldur's Gate video games and D&D is awesome.

Sven today : D&D is not so fun, we have to custom everything^^


I did not get this from this interview(maybe I missed the sentence where Swen talked about hating D&D?)
what he was talking about is how non-D&D players feel about RNG and how they will try to provide a mode(optional) for them
and if you do not like it, you can go full RNG just like the way it is right now

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Originally Posted by Abits

True, but that is true about every kind of feedback. I don't think everyone agrees on anything here (maybe hate for Kagha but even that is doubtful).


In that case, you are right - modders can fix gameplay choices, but cannot do dialogs, social/journal reaction systems, and cinematics with voice acting, so in case of limited resources, the all-encompassing story does seem more important. Maybe this notion would be noticed.

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Quote
“I can imagine that we will never manage to find the balance that will please everyone,” says Vincke. But, there is a (sort of) solution: “The game will be moddable eventually, so people will be able to make their mods. I expect multiple flavors of Baldur’s Gate 3 to come out of that. Over time there will be probably a flavor that will appeal hopefully to everybody.”


Not happy with this article at all. This is a dodge and lazy one at that.

I read this to say "if there is a difference of opinion about a game mechanic we'll use that difference of opinion as an excuse not to change -- hopefully the modders will you out". There are *always* differences of opinion and you only a need a few dedicated people to put up the illusion of a strong difference of opinion.

So far the Larian has responded to one thread -- I hate missing 8 times in a row -- but not, say, to the various loooong threads on the need for a 6 member party. Or the one issue everyone agrees upon -- party management is terrible.

Compare that to how the Solasta responded response to critiques of lighting. "We thought our homebrew was better, you told us it wasn't so we're changing course". I'd like to see more of that from Larian.

Granted, it's early days but "modders will take care of that" isn't listening. It's a way to deflect criticism.

Edit: full agreement with @uncle lester and @maximuus on this.




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@Sven

- Gale and Wyl are good in my opinion (which does not mean they are perfect or need to be always good). You can have good companions currently.
Though your 4th will be more shady (Astarion is rather neutral I would say).

- Siding with the Absolute is not just evil, it is insane and stupid. As for Minthara, she is a drow who is betraying Lolth and her people (either willingly or just controlled by a tadpole). The Absolute is not a path of power, but a path of becoming a subservient fool/tool. A lot of us did it for fun, for laughs, for the early access.
My Lolth-sworn Drow destroyed Minthara and all goblins without hesitation. Whether playing good or evil, I won't side with the Absolute except on an insane playthrough for fun.
Still, yes, you can choose rather freely to side with anyone or not, which is a nice design !


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Originally Posted by Abits
I for one quite optimistic after this interview. It's the first time some higher up on Larian addresses many of the issues we raised. And at least we got confirmation for mod support some time in the future


Couldn’t agree more, by reading the interviewing seems to me Larian is quite aware of the hit topics on this forum. I am very optimistic too.

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Originally Posted by Human
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Sven before : I'd love doing BG3 because I love the Baldur's Gate video games and D&D is awesome.

Sven today : D&D is not so fun, we have to custom everything^^


I did not get this from this interview(maybe I missed the sentence where Swen talked about hating D&D?)
what he was talking about is how non-D&D players feel about RNG and how they will try to provide a mode(optional) for them
and if you do not like it, you can go full RNG just like the way it is right now


This was a joke, but it looks like everything they changed is because of D&D. D20 sucks, D&D has not enough things to do when you play with low level characters (there is still many spells or "actions" they could implement from D&D).

I really think they even don't try to implement D&D's rules. What about the cover mechanic that also add more tactical depths to combats ?

It looks like he could have said something like : D&D is not that fun, that's why we completely altered the mechanics. They added tons of things to improve the fact that they didn't implement enough D&D in BG3.

What about ready or dodge ? What about shove to prone ?
There's not a lot of fireworks when you use such actions but they are definitely tactical options.

That's a strange way of doing a D&D game according to me... So reading 2 times in the interview "this is because of D&D" looks a little bit unreal.

But whatever, they do what they want with their game.
I'm way less a fan of D&D than a I'm a fan of BG... So I guess my only concern should be the "RTWP" (if I trust what I read).

Last edited by Maximuuus; 10/11/20 07:19 PM.
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Originally Posted by Baraz
(Astarion is rather neutral I would say).




Astarion is so evil smile More I explore his dialogues the less hope I have for saving his soul. The Myrina ending clinched it for me -- he thought the returning her husband in the form of a zombie was hilarious.

Pretty basic emotional reaction -- he finds the pain of others humorous. Maaybe there is a redemption path but it sure looks like he's planning to become a stronger and eviler version of his master.

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