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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem

So they are going for the Bethesda solution, let the modders fix it, wonderful, just wonderful. Sigh, I hope this does not turn into Larian's Fallout 76 where they go from a must buy to never bother with.



No. This is not the same. They are going to make a polished, working, fun game for a very large audience of people. Most people will not need or want to mod the game. But then the modders will make alternatives to make the game suit various NICHE audiences. Bethesda releases shittily-made games that actually need FIXING, not just customizing for select player preferences. Larian is gonna release a perfectly solid title, but it just might have some design elements that various minority groups dislike, and those people can mod the game to fit their perfect vision.


As for people "crying out" for more surfaces, that's absolute nonsense. I spend several hours a day on this forum and the BG3 subreddit, and I've never seen ANYONE "cry out" for MORE surfaces. What a load of tripe.


As for Larian communicating with us about what feedback they're considering, I think it's a double-edged sword. There's a reason they're hesitant to do that. You'll notice that they basically said, "give us your feedback and we'll use it to make the game better" and NOT "give us your feedback, we'll talk to you about your feedback, and then we'll make the game better". The reason that developers, especially big ones with lots of money and reputation riding on the line, keep things vague and unspecific, or just don't say anything. That reason is that gamers are fucking insane.

If they say, "we notice people asking for a larger party" or "we notice that people are asking for a classic CRPG control scheme" or "we notice that people are asking for Disengage and Hide to be regular actions", 9999 people will take these statements as Promises From On High that those issues are going to be addressed, in exactly the way that they hope. If Larian says those things, and then chooses NOT to alter their game to suit those particular feedbacks, then 9999 people will come out of the woodwork screaming, "They LIED to us! They said they were gonna fix these issues! Larian are liars, liars, liars! How dare they!" If you've been paying any attention to Greater Internet Discourse in the online gaming community over the last decade or so, you know that I'm right.

It just makes the most sense for them to stay quiet about specific issues until they feel like they are likely to give people what they want on those issues, to avoid crazy people misconstruing their words and starting an internet shitfire.



Absolutely right and can not be stressed enough, the expectations some people in the forum have are riducolus.

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Originally Posted by Maldurin
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem

So they are going for the Bethesda solution, let the modders fix it, wonderful, just wonderful. Sigh, I hope this does not turn into Larian's Fallout 76 where they go from a must buy to never bother with.



No. This is not the same. They are going to make a polished, working, fun game for a very large audience of people. Most people will not need or want to mod the game. But then the modders will make alternatives to make the game suit various NICHE audiences. Bethesda releases shittily-made games that actually need FIXING, not just customizing for select player preferences. Larian is gonna release a perfectly solid title, but it just might have some design elements that various minority groups dislike, and those people can mod the game to fit their perfect vision.


As for people "crying out" for more surfaces, that's absolute nonsense. I spend several hours a day on this forum and the BG3 subreddit, and I've never seen ANYONE "cry out" for MORE surfaces. What a load of tripe.


As for Larian communicating with us about what feedback they're considering, I think it's a double-edged sword. There's a reason they're hesitant to do that. You'll notice that they basically said, "give us your feedback and we'll use it to make the game better" and NOT "give us your feedback, we'll talk to you about your feedback, and then we'll make the game better". The reason that developers, especially big ones with lots of money and reputation riding on the line, keep things vague and unspecific, or just don't say anything. That reason is that gamers are fucking insane.

If they say, "we notice people asking for a larger party" or "we notice that people are asking for a classic CRPG control scheme" or "we notice that people are asking for Disengage and Hide to be regular actions", 9999 people will take these statements as Promises From On High that those issues are going to be addressed, in exactly the way that they hope. If Larian says those things, and then chooses NOT to alter their game to suit those particular feedbacks, then 9999 people will come out of the woodwork screaming, "They LIED to us! They said they were gonna fix these issues! Larian are liars, liars, liars! How dare they!" If you've been paying any attention to Greater Internet Discourse in the online gaming community over the last decade or so, you know that I'm right.

It just makes the most sense for them to stay quiet about specific issues until they feel like they are likely to give people what they want on those issues, to avoid crazy people misconstruing their words and starting an internet shitfire.



Absolutely right and can not be stressed enough, the expectations some people in the forum have are riducolus.


I simply don’t get people why some gamers don’t feel like customers. When you buy a product/service with your own money, you are not supposed to feel like a random Joe walking in the Louvre and admiring Da Vinci’s Gioconda.
I won’t stop you feeling this way be please don’t teach us how to behave like clients.

Larian is not making a F2P game, guys. Inside game data does not show client satisfaction level. Inside data only show how clients behave given certain pressure/temperature conditions. Of course you can claim that they have this unknown data regarding how the players feel concerning certain features in the game, yet you fail to show:

1-how it was taken
2-the results

Just to be more accurate: a subreddit meme with a map 100% covered in necrofire clearly isn’t the best way to get data.

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Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Maldurin
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem

So they are going for the Bethesda solution, let the modders fix it, wonderful, just wonderful. Sigh, I hope this does not turn into Larian's Fallout 76 where they go from a must buy to never bother with.



No. This is not the same. They are going to make a polished, working, fun game for a very large audience of people. Most people will not need or want to mod the game. But then the modders will make alternatives to make the game suit various NICHE audiences. Bethesda releases shittily-made games that actually need FIXING, not just customizing for select player preferences. Larian is gonna release a perfectly solid title, but it just might have some design elements that various minority groups dislike, and those people can mod the game to fit their perfect vision.


As for people "crying out" for more surfaces, that's absolute nonsense. I spend several hours a day on this forum and the BG3 subreddit, and I've never seen ANYONE "cry out" for MORE surfaces. What a load of tripe.


As for Larian communicating with us about what feedback they're considering, I think it's a double-edged sword. There's a reason they're hesitant to do that. You'll notice that they basically said, "give us your feedback and we'll use it to make the game better" and NOT "give us your feedback, we'll talk to you about your feedback, and then we'll make the game better". The reason that developers, especially big ones with lots of money and reputation riding on the line, keep things vague and unspecific, or just don't say anything. That reason is that gamers are fucking insane.

If they say, "we notice people asking for a larger party" or "we notice that people are asking for a classic CRPG control scheme" or "we notice that people are asking for Disengage and Hide to be regular actions", 9999 people will take these statements as Promises From On High that those issues are going to be addressed, in exactly the way that they hope. If Larian says those things, and then chooses NOT to alter their game to suit those particular feedbacks, then 9999 people will come out of the woodwork screaming, "They LIED to us! They said they were gonna fix these issues! Larian are liars, liars, liars! How dare they!" If you've been paying any attention to Greater Internet Discourse in the online gaming community over the last decade or so, you know that I'm right.

It just makes the most sense for them to stay quiet about specific issues until they feel like they are likely to give people what they want on those issues, to avoid crazy people misconstruing their words and starting an internet shitfire.



Absolutely right and can not be stressed enough, the expectations some people in the forum have are riducolus.


I simply don’t get people why some gamers don’t feel like customers. When you buy a product/service with your own money, you are not supposed to feel like a random Joe walking in the Louvre and admiring Da Vinci’s Gioconda.
I won’t stop you feeling this way be please don’t teach us how to behave like clients.

Larian is not making a F2P game, guys. Inside game data does not show client satisfaction level. Inside data only show how clients behave given certain pressure/temperature conditions. Of course you can claim that they have this unknown data regarding how the players feel concerning certain features in the game, yet you fail to show:

1-how it was taken
2-the results

Just to be more accurate: a subreddit meme with a map 100% covered in necrofire clearly isn’t the best way to get data.



Surely the sailiant point was that Larian are being cautious as to what feedback they comment on, if they comment at all. FOr all we know next patch introduces 6 party members, a new UI and sexy lingerie armour as per the big threads. Likelihood is they don't but continue to monitor and internally discuss and develop whilst polishing Act 1 and working on whatever is missing from the later Acts. Yes we are customers, but in EA we are also testers and as far as I am concerned I did not sign a contract giving me the right to scream blue murder until Larian acknowledges my often "think out loud" posts.

We are all providing feedback, what Larian chooses to do with that is entirely up to them. Sure, I would love it if they came in and went, bloody hell Riandor, you sound like you write fantasy (I do) and have fantastic ideas (I often don't), come work for us!! But I would equally be happy if they didn't even acknowledge my posts or anyone elses here and quietly got on with fixing the game. As long as it comes out with some of the items the community on here is in agreement on (more than not), then that's a win. If I don't like the game post release, or post patches, I will complain and not play and that will be dissapointing.

Sure, customer interaction is great, but it is often a two edged sword and as this forum alone is proof of, not everyone agrees with each other... which is great, but in that case a studio, or anyone, is often best sticking to their concepts, than trying to adapt anything that theiir customer base disagrees on.

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I agree with you that Larian holds the final decision. I guess the whole community agree with that and clearly that’s not what being debated.
Again, we’re focusing in acknowledgment issues that are not being addressed by the company so far. Quite frankly, I don’t even feel that we’ll see something different in the final and polished version.

I’m also okay with the fact that they’ve adapted many rules to a videogame system. Yet, some of them (I’ve said some and not all) have a humongous backlash in the mechanics and the balance of the game, that currently cannot be seen. I’ve said many times how Barbarian will suffer drastically with this mess on the advantage system. Buff/debuff based classes like bards and clerics also will suffer. Well, let’s wait and see smile

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Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
I agree with you that Larian holds the final decision. I guess the whole community agree with that and clearly that’s not what being debated.
Again, we’re focusing in acknowledgment issues that are not being addressed by the company so far. Quite frankly, I don’t even feel that we’ll see something different in the final and polished version.

I’m also okay with the fact that they’ve adapted many rules to a videogame system. Yet, some of them (I’ve said some and not all) have a humongous backlash in the mechanics and the balance of the game, that currently cannot be seen. I’ve said many times how Barbarian will suffer drastically with this mess on the advantage system. Buff/debuff based classes like bards and clerics also will suffer. Well, let’s wait and see smile


Yeah I would also like to see how it all behaves together when the other classes are added. Hopefullly they come sooner rather than later so we can comment.

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It seems like they're at least getting some of the complaints here, but my concern is that they're not understanding them or are just way off the mark.

Like complaints about companions for instance. It seems like they're attributing the generally unlikable companions to their alignments, which is extremely off the mark.

Companion alignment should not matter at all in terms of likeability. It's the dialogue and how they're written. Some evil characters are the most loved in fiction like Joker, Dexter, Pulp Fiction, Blacklist, etc. I mean, a lot of times people root for the villain!

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I don't find either of the companions particularly evil, at all.

I mean Astarion is a Vampire, so yeah, he sure as hell isn't good, but he is cliche and and can go either way (figuratively and literally), but the rest are all self centered perhaps, but Evil? THey might be more relaxed with the player being of dubious morals, but not even Shadowheart strikes me as particularly evil and she worships Shar. I mean I played what I determined as CHaotic Good, with a touch of Sod you murderhobo if someone really ticked me off and I was universally loved by my party. Well I think Laezel might have only been moderatly enamoured.

Maybe Larian needs to hire Claudia Black for some voiceovers, always liked her dubious characters in games. lol.

I'm certain it's why we have seen calls for the Drow to be able to join us rather than betray us.

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Originally Posted by Blade238
Some evil characters are the most loved in fiction like Joker, Dexter, Pulp Fiction, Blacklist, etc. I mean, a lot of times people root for the villain!


...Edwin, Korgan, Viconia...

I don't have much of an opinion on the companions in BG3 yet (though I'm probably not going to like most of them), but you can by all means make a character that is both evil and likeable.

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Out of the feedbacks regarding the game mechanics, companion in-depth analysis is the one I’d like to avoid the most. This is the ground where as a customer I wouldn’t like to mess.

Yes, the companions are leaning more toward being a jerk than evil (with exception of Astarion who is a jerk and evil altogether). Yet, I’d say that this start is somehow better compared to BGI-II (except Jaheira&Khalid that clearly have reasons to join your party without being self centered & selfish)
due to the facts that your bounds are not strong enough to justify a blind commitment. In their position I’d also use Tav as a tool for our greater goal (just like Edwin).

Exploration and social interaction pillars are okayish to me. Combat is poorly designed and I simply dislike the great majority of the changes because they implemented way too many DOS like “strengths” as a trump card without visualizing the long run.

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Seriously doubt Larian has appointed people to come to places like forums and reddit, to learn what they need to tweak in their game. They more than likely have their own people who play and troubleshoot the game, while paying a great deal of attention to the data we give them through playing.

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Originally Posted by cool-dude01
Seriously doubt Larian has appointed people to come to places like forums and reddit, to learn what they need to tweak in their game. They more than likely have their own people who play and troubleshoot the game, while paying a great deal of attention to the data we give them through playing.


Considering the last patch was full of updates that were improvements that the community asked for, I disagree.

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Originally Posted by Evandir
Originally Posted by cool-dude01
Seriously doubt Larian has appointed people to come to places like forums and reddit, to learn what they need to tweak in their game. They more than likely have their own people who play and troubleshoot the game, while paying a great deal of attention to the data we give them through playing.


Considering the last patch was full of updates that were improvements that the community asked for, I disagree.

Swen himself said they’ve been gathering feedback from the subreddit and this forum.

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Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Swen himself said they’ve been gathering feedback from the subreddit and this forum.

I believe the actual question here is how they do that ... there is many topics that have 15+ paiges ... do they read it whole, or just OP? :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Swen himself said they’ve been gathering feedback from the subreddit and this forum.

I believe the actual question here is how they do that ... there is many topics that have 15+ paiges ... do they read it whole, or just OP? :-/


Not sure if every single post is duly noted... But we know mods (The Composer anyway) make notes of forum feedback and since they, well, moderate, they at least read a good portion of the forum posts.

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Originally Posted by Evandir
Originally Posted by cool-dude01
Seriously doubt Larian has appointed people to come to places like forums and reddit, to learn what they need to tweak in their game. They more than likely have their own people who play and troubleshoot the game, while paying a great deal of attention to the data we give them through playing.

Considering the last patch was full of updates that were improvements that the community asked for, I disagree.

Fair enough, but beings that they thought people didn't like being evil because "evil bad", despite the numerous threads on the topic, tells me that the feedback they look at isn't what you think it is.

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Considering that apparently half the posters on this board need to go to horny jail I start to wish Larian wouldn't read this board...

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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Swen himself said they’ve been gathering feedback from the subreddit and this forum.
I believe the actual question here is how they do that ... there is many topics that have 15+ paiges ... do they read it whole, or just OP? :-/
Not sure if every single post is duly noted... But we know mods (The Composer anyway) make notes of forum feedback and since they, well, moderate, they at least read a good portion of the forum posts.
Well ...
When i see last patch ... i can definietly tell that they listened to most people who were angry about amount of spells in hotbar ... and they also definietly listened to their sugested "hex-like pop-up menu" solution ...
But since they completely scraped everything they created before. :-/ Im not quite sure if they simply didnt read reactions of that second group of people who liked it as it was ... or simpy choose to ignore them.

What is most confusing for me is the question why there even need to be only one system, since those two dont colide. :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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