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I think it won't be bad if Larian adds the option of a neutral path.
Of course, it will take a lot of resources to develop a full-fledged neutral path, but there is a way that can be done quite simply.

Neutral good way: help the druids and kill the tieflings or drive them out of the grove, and then take the quest from Kagha to kill the goblin leaders. Get a party with druids and elves. Khalsin must survive. Everything is the same as now in the game in a good way, but at the party there are druids instead of tieflings. Kagha is alive and has come to terms with the fact that Khalsin is her leader. The opportunity to have sex with Halsin.

The chaotic neutral path is the same as the neutral good, but we either kill Halsin or use persuasion on him to give him the leadership of the Kagha. As a reward, we get sex with Kagha.

Neutral evil path: help the druids deal with the tieflings, and then negotiate peace with Minthara. Death of tieflings and Khalsin, salvation of the Druid Grove. Party with goblins, tiefling corpses everywhere (druids give them and their spoils to goblins). Kagha is present at the party as Minthara's new ally in the region. Or a "neutral ally" to which there are no complaints. Most likely, the ritual will be completed, in this case.

At the moment, there are hints in the game about the possibility of a similar development of events, but there is an impression that Kagha was deliberately made bad so that the players did not help her and there was no need to work on this root.
It upsets me that Kagha is bad - there is a Vhaldez separate topic about this: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=715138#Post715138

The moral choice must be difficult between druids and tieflings, there is no reason to help Kagha right now. Also, these children, you need to do something with them so that a neutral passage would be without killing children. And Kagha doesn't have to be a shadow druid, just be power hungry. She has great potential which was not well revealed in the game, many people liked her despite the fact that now Larian made a moral monster of her.

I consider the option when we kill the druids to help the tieflings and then help them kill the goblin leaders is also a neutral way, which means that we must have at least the same motivation to get a neutral path with the druids.
At the moment, helping druids looks like evil and a dumb option even if the main character is an elf, it shouldn't be that way.
An absolutely good path when both druids and tieflings survive. Then I also want to see the druids at the party with tifflings. I love elves. It also makes sense to choose between Khalsin and Kagha leadership if the tieflings and druids are alive, this will affect the possibility of a romantic option at the party.


With these changes applied, Act 1 will be much better.

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Sorry to disagree. There are already so many permutations of the druid/tiefling/goblin story that I can't see spending resources on more.

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Sorry to disagree. There are already so many permutations of the druid/tiefling/goblin story that I can't see spending resources on more.

The history of the druids is a dead end now, if the player helps the druids they will attack him anyway. No dialogue, no cast scenes

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This suggestion is an excellent example why old moral alignment system was a mess and absurd nonsense insulting to any intelligent being.

Neutral path is killing all tieflings - and then balancing it by killing all goblins? Mkaaay. Oh, thats even Neutral good too. lol.
Kill everyone! See, im neutral, everyones dead. hahahahaha...

There is no moral alignment in the Dnd anymore to prevent exactly this kind of broken nonsense. And this would be the worst possible, almost hilariously bad way to try to reintroduce it.

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Cant help the feeling that this is another of yours trolltopics. :-/

But lets presume its not, for a second ... you totally can side with Kagha allready, when you help her drive tieflings out and she then complete her ritual.
There is no reason to fight goblins afterward, since they cant hurt druids anymore, but its still possible.

You still keep talking like whole world is just waiting for you ... you get there by accident called ship crash, every NPC have allready his own plans and motivations, you simply just happened to be around, nothing more ... deal with it. :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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neutral path is if you kill a child, you have to give birth to a new child to balance it out.

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I, uh, I don't think killing a group of refugees to help a group of xenophobic druids could be considered neutral.

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy

Neutral good way: help the druids and kill the tieflings or drive them out of the grove, and then take the quest from Kagha to kill the goblin leaders. Get a party with druids and elves. Khalsin must survive. Everything is the same as now in the game in a good way, but at the party there are druids instead of tieflings. Kagha is alive and has come to terms with the fact that Khalsin is her leader. The opportunity to have sex with Halsin.


There's nothing Neutral Good about that. There is actually a path in-game that can be considered somewhat neutral good and that is investigating Kagha and convincing her to renounce the Shadow Druids, leading to her redemption.

A neutral good person acts purely out of a desire to do good, without any ulterior motives like you'd have with either lawful or chaotic alignments.

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy

Neutral good way: help the druids and kill the tieflings or drive them out of the grove, and then take the quest from Kagha to kill the goblin leaders. Get a party with druids and elves. Khalsin must survive. Everything is the same as now in the game in a good way, but at the party there are druids instead of tieflings. Kagha is alive and has come to terms with the fact that Khalsin is her leader. The opportunity to have sex with Halsin.

The chaotic neutral path is the same as the neutral good, but we either kill Halsin or use persuasion on him to give him the leadership of the Kagha. As a reward, we get sex with Kagha.



This is a creepy post.

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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
neutral path is if you kill a child, you have to give birth to a new child to balance it out.



That's how it works, yep. Druid code is quite clear.

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I'm fully supportive of having more ways to handle that scenario as well as the entire Druid/Tiefling conflict, but I don't think you should let the different branches be arbitrarily constrained by the alignment system.

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To kill the tieflings is an evil act and I don't understand how it could be considered neutral good. It could be true neutral or neutral good if the tieflings were actually attacking the grove, which is not what they do.

But I do agree Khaga could be a quest giver instead of Zevlor if we agree to ally with the shadow druids and get rid of the tieflings for them.

Last edited by Nyanko; 13/11/20 09:23 AM.
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Okay, I'm a little wrong about the alignment system. In any case, the Kagha root requires a rework, to make it look like an alternate neutral path. Perhaps it will be the completion of the ritual, the expulsion of the tieflings, but a peace treaty with the goblins. The pacifist path. Something like that.
This quest has untapped potential, now Kagha root is bad.
She doesn't have to be absolutely evil.
For an evil hero, she loses to Minthara, and I want me to want to support her when I play as an neutral elf and I don't see a reason and opportunity.
It might make sense to make a conflict between tieflings and druids inevitable so that helping one side is not an obvious "good" option. More motivation to help druids is needed, and a little more Kagha content. I think Larian will be able to come up with something with this problem

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Roflmao - Kagha was on my hitlist the moment her disrespectful Snake dared to bang its fang at a higher being, a Humanoid.

I am a Humanoid Supremacist.
Lowly beasts should bow done to the crafting species.
" If not... the Blade must strike! "


But regarding Kagha.
Look around a little harder guys.
I found out today she has some wierd connection to truly Humanoid-hating Druids.

Killing a Tiefling child was not to defend her own people.
Her people were the excuse to do what she wanted.
She also openly shows she can barely wait to have an all out battle in the groove.

Every dead Druid is also probably to her liking.
Cause in the end they too are Humanoids.
But maybe I am just overinterpreting her crazy doctrin I found in her hidden stash.

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Muahahahahahaha.

>runs away grin


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I have a different suggestion: to forego the alignment system.

It seems that at least part of the player base has grown up sufficiently to stop oversimplifying the events and character reactions in-game.

If the game itself allows it, and plot/dialog writers actually recognize the ambiguity and nuances in any given situation.

And I don't think it should be fair to put any labels. Just like in life, one can be a mostly altruistic person, but sometimes give in to power hunger, or just get tired of being manipulated by those who take advantage of altruism.

So the real challenge is to write a plot that would actually allow both simple and complex decisions and situations.

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
Roflmao - Kagha was on my hitlist the moment her disrespectful Snake dared to bang its fang at a higher being, a Humanoid.

I hadn't considered this before, but this comment had me thinking...
Has anyone used Speak With Animals before entering the sanctuary? Is the snake indifferent to the situation and just following its master's commands?

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Originally Posted by Bukke
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
Roflmao - Kagha was on my hitlist the moment her disrespectful Snake dared to bang its fang at a higher being, a Humanoid.

I hadn't considered this before, but this comment had me thinking...
Has anyone used Speak With Animals before entering the sanctuary? Is the snake indifferent to the situation and just following its master's commands?


There are cinematics preventing this smart scenario. You can't talk to the snake during this mise-en-scène.

Last edited by Ellenhard; 13/11/20 02:33 PM.
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Originally Posted by Ellenhard
Originally Posted by Bukke
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
Roflmao - Kagha was on my hitlist the moment her disrespectful Snake dared to bang its fang at a higher being, a Humanoid.

I hadn't considered this before, but this comment had me thinking...
Has anyone used Speak With Animals before entering the sanctuary? Is the snake indifferent to the situation and just following its master's commands?


There are cinematics preventing this smart scenario. You can't talk to the snake during this mise-en-scène.

Oh, that's a shame.

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Originally Posted by Ellenhard
Originally Posted by Bukke
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
Roflmao - Kagha was on my hitlist the moment her disrespectful Snake dared to bang its fang at a higher being, a Humanoid.

I hadn't considered this before, but this comment had me thinking...
Has anyone used Speak With Animals before entering the sanctuary? Is the snake indifferent to the situation and just following its master's commands?


There are cinematics preventing this smart scenario. You can't talk to the snake during this mise-en-scène.


In fact, you can. You need to cast this spell before the cast scene, then turn to the snake - she says that she obeys only the Kagha

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