Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
I would say that there is more than enough humor ...

When Volo do almost anything its funny ... and when he tryed to remove tadpole, it was hilarious ...
Some of conversations between characters are quite funny ...
Gale, and Shadowheart do have some funny comentaries ...
In Goblin camp i feeled amused by almost everything, from vendor goblin comentaries, through chicken chase, to talking to crusher.

Dunno where is the problem here. :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Joined: Oct 2020
Tuv Offline
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by vometia
It does seem a bit serious business (I mean other than the random banter from the goblins). I just assumed D&D is like that.


DnD is first and foremost whatever you make of it. It is "anything particular" only second. Humor itself can be whatever we make of life, so it can go with anything or fail miserably.

A lot of the humor in DnD can come from good/bad rolls in combination with the player's intention.
All it needs is an engine (our mind) to provide for the physics. If the player can create their own humorous scenarios, then please continue to do so. The levity in conversation with the companions is pretty good already, so just keep going there. not too much and not too little.

Assume that humor is there to deal with a situation, not for humor's sake. At least in a serious situation. You can't speak plainly so you crack a joke, everybody is well aware that they are turning into tentacles and goo.

Jokes can go horribly wrong, perfect for the companions in the game currently. They do seem like they could take it the wrong way.

If you want funny, try DnD funny.
This can be in-lore jokes (Jan Jansen) or the d20 system of semi-random outcomes. Some things like the polymorphed chicken (Melicamp), an adventure like no other (limited wish spell), gender-swapping Edwin (cursed belt), putting the gate back in baldurs gate via wild magic or the very meta-gaming "player reloads" little episode in the underdark. The graveyard in nashkell is both funny and stupidly challenging.

DnD already provides for plenty of official items to play with. I mean, all the damn talking artifacts alone...

Baldur's Gate offered pretty much any companion one could think of with a narrow, medieval-fantasy mind.
It let the player decided who comes along and for how long. Banter didn't feel as imposed as it feels now with the limited selection. I just happen to like what we have already.


Baldur's Gate 1&2 never seemed too silly as the engine didn't allow for blowing up the entire map but if it did, people would have done so and bg would have become famous for it. for the wrong reasons.
Just watch out Larian, if you give us the ability to lessen our own immersion in the gameworld by doing funny/silly, we will do so. In the second playthrough.

I was never quite sure whether or not the divinity (not only DOS) games wanted their world and story to be taken as seriously as the competition. Or if this extreme levity was part of the design. As far as I can remember the humor in Larian games has been a double edged sword, humor but at the cost of world building, instead of supporting world building.
The literal void dragon, the arcade-arena-rpg map with 4 colors/seasons, the explosions and telekinesis without elevating the mechanics out of alpha, no serious economy, constant going from one crazy location to the next without ever getting to know the world. All with an ensemble of characters that are over the top more often than not.

Planescape perfected the balance between serious/funny, weird/believable. Not even Sigil is a place where litterally anything goes however. It felt Sigil, and BG felt like Sword coast. Larian games' worlds always feel like a Larian world, something not quite finished.

Here is a couple things that work great already

  • BG3 has great banter already and I think humor in general is good.
  • The ox in the barn is now the biggest ox, good for him.
  • The other barn scene.
  • Trapped inside bibberbang.
  • The tadpole trying to escape after nearly having been crushed only to fall victim to time dilation and the subsequent magic missile to the face(?).
  • Goblin shooting an explosive arrow at Gale? Gets reflected, explodes in the goblins face and thus takes down parts of the gate, having a total of 3 gobos fall down. comedy gold!
  • Talking to animals, getting a second opinion on the two-legs around. The snarky wolve, the horny boar, the new-alpha ox, so good, all of it.
    Every time a character fails at "their thing" with a natural one and it doesn't result in total war


Good job so far!

Joined: Mar 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2020
I want a talking chicken and a talking sword. that's all.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Oct 2020
C
stranger
Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Oct 2020
I like that the game has humor amidst the serious themes but doesn't go too far with it, imo. I love Volo and find his arrogance very entertaining, the goblins at the goblin camp provided some humor here and there, Astarion has a lot of funny dialogue (though some might find it tasteless, I guess) and Gale's protocol/some of his dialogue made me laugh as well. Apart from that there is the wholesome tiefling couple at the Grove, Lump the enlightened, the gnome at the windmill...I feel like there are plenty of characters with charm and humor. They're not necessarily making jokes, but they have humorous interactions/personalities. Then again, humor is highly subjective, but personally I really enjoy it so far.

EDIT: Don't know how I forgot to mention my favorite character in the EA so far, Auntie Ethel

Last edited by carcra; 12/11/20 10:54 AM.
Joined: Mar 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2020
also, bohhaaaaaaallll


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Mar 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Mar 2020
I think BG III has a great taste for humor, especially Astarion became one of my favorite whith his lines ("..and i wish i would drink of the skulls of everyone who did me wrong. life is tough) or (you can literally talk to animlas!")
but in a fitting, not to goofy way.

There are funny moments when you play as a drow as well, for example the goblins calling you "my drowness".
for me its pretty well done!

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Sir Lora got annoying pretty damn quickly, I was so glad when I made a run where I didn't have Pet Pal.

Astarion is very fun too <3, I wish my character chuckled like I would :P.

Joined: Oct 2020
C
cgexile Offline OP
journeyman
OP Offline
journeyman
C
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I would say that there is more than enough humor ...

When Volo do almost anything its funny ... and when he tryed to remove tadpole, it was hilarious ...
Some of conversations between characters are quite funny ...
Gale, and Shadowheart do have some funny comentaries ...
In Goblin camp i feeled amused by almost everything, from vendor goblin comentaries, through chicken chase, to talking to crusher.

Dunno where is the problem here. :-/


I think he removes your eye, which is cringeworthy humor at best.

Yes I agree the conversations between the characters can be amusing. However, I realized I miss a lot of them because when I click to run somewhere I move the camera out of focus and by the time I refocus on the party I've already missed whatever they were talking about.

Yeah the Goblin camp is great, but once you wipe it off the map, that's over with.

Originally Posted by FatePeddler
Sir Lora got annoying pretty damn quickly, I was so glad when I made a run where I didn't have Pet Pal.


I guess? Maybe that's what I'm missing smile Talking to cats, crabs, etc was truly hilarious because of the script and the voice acting.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Where is the humor??? lol
Have you been watching these <animated> cinematic dialogues?? Monty python levels of humor there.

The head movements/ body movement while listening.
Long pauses between lines
Starting dialogues behind objects.
Dipping your weapon then starting a dialogue.
Unresponsive lifeless companions in the background while in conversations.
....

Larian is going to be busy. NOT changing any of the discussed gameplay feedback, but mostly with the cinematics/bugs until release...

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 12/11/20 01:24 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
C
cgexile Offline OP
journeyman
OP Offline
journeyman
C
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Where is the humor??? lol
Have you been watching these <animated> cinematic dialogues?? Monty python levels of humor there.

The head movements/ body movement while listening.
Long pauses between lines
Starting dialogues behind objects.
Dipping your weapon then starting a dialogue.
Unresponsive lifeless companions in the background while in conversations.
....

Larian is going to be busy. NOT changing any of the discussed gameplay feedback, but mostly with the cinematics/bugs until release...


Yeah that's actually one of the problems right there. They try to emote with exaggerated body movements for reactions one would normally use just their eyes or their face. Since they can't articulate - well enough - the facial features (like a subtle squint for example), they have compensate for it in some other way.

The technology is just not there yet (unless they make everyone run the latest hardware and go all out on real-time photo-realistic rendering or something).

Last edited by cgexile; 12/11/20 04:41 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
I haven't actually played the game yet and I'm very curious how I'll feel about the matter. BG1&2 had an awesome balance of humour and seriousness and Larian (if I were to judge by the interviews) seem to understand it. They've also stated that they understand that BG is an entirely different brand of humour than Divinity. Reading this thread makes me quite optimistic.

Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
BG2 fans are split on Jan who was a comic relief character. I love Jan and I had him in most of my parties. Minsc was about 50 percent humor.

But you could also assemble downright morose murder party -- Valygar musing on whether he was right to murder his parents, Keldorn depressed after he murdered his wife, Anomen repenting for having murdered Saerk, non romanceable Jaheria musing about her murdered husband.

I think they've got the tone right -- once Minsc comes we'll get some humor. BG is more Star Wars than Guardians of the Galaxy or Spaceballs.


Jan is objectively the best character out there! But what's great is that he's not JUST a joke character; his companion quest is quite serious, and at times his stories end up having a non-comedic point to them - like one conversation with Mazzy is actually heartwarming. He's funny - but it's also shown that there's depth to his character.

Now I want to give it a try! My attempt at different BG parties:

"Serious goody-two-shoes" BG1 party: Ajantis(?), Dynaheir, Jaheira, Kivan, Yeslick

"Weirdos" BG1 party: Alora, Minsc, Quayle, Tiax, Xzar (would be a rather short-lived party, though...)

"College kids" BG1 party: Coran, Eldoth, Garrick, Safana, Skie

"Post-traumatic" BG2 party: Imoen, Jaheira, Anomen, Keldorn, Valygar (expanded on your "morose murder party")

"Light-hearted" BG2 party: Minsc, Aerie, Haer'Dalis, Jan, Korgan

I never actually tried to theme BG companions like that, I usually just take the ones I like leaning to "good run" or "evil run". It would be an interesting experiment to do two playthroughs back-to-back with two contrasting parties. I imagine it's a completely different experience.

Originally Posted by cgexile
I don’t mind 1 party member with emotional issues but when everyone is like that, it’s basically Lone wolf mode if at all possible.


I'm the same and I'm a bit afraid it will be the case in BG3. "Emotional issues" are often conflated with character depth. I very much prefer psychologically strong characters... or just crazy ones. Not emotional trainwrecks (be it overt or hidden).

Originally Posted by Tuv
Originally Posted by vometia
It does seem a bit serious business (I mean other than the random banter from the goblins). I just assumed D&D is like that.


DnD is first and foremost whatever you make of it. It is "anything particular" only second. Humor itself can be whatever we make of life, so it can go with anything or fail miserably.

-snip-


A very interesting post. I hope Larian devs see it, I think it's a good analysis of what works and what doesn't - and what would be a good direction to take BG3 humour.

Joined: Oct 2020
C
cgexile Offline OP
journeyman
OP Offline
journeyman
C
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Aurgelmir
You are asking for "silliness" not really Humor. There's lots of humor in the game. There's less of the silly natured things like Sir Lora etc. (Although get yourself speak with animals, and have a chat with the squirrels, they are a hoot)


Well yeah it's silly but the lines were pretty funny. Silly and funny can work together. There was also a purpose to that pair as they would give you goodies throughout the story. They were more of a companion in that way than an actual PC.

Yeah I'll have to make sure to try out speak with animals after the next big content patch - definitely.



Last edited by cgexile; 12/11/20 05:01 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
The problem is humor is entirely subjective. Gale and Astorian are quite funny IMO. When Gale makes comments about a post-coital picnic for example...

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
From my point of view, they miss the point about humor.

In BG1 and 2, there was humor but it was pretty well incorporate in the game. Some characters was funny but there was without trying to be. They was just themselfs.


In BG3, I think the companion are not the worst. Astarion is, from my point of view, a little too much of a cliché but that's not what's annoyed me.
What's annoyed me is the humor they put in the environment. The broken guitar, the sentences of goblins in fights. It's all of this details which participate to break the immersion and give this bad DoS feeling.

Yeah, BG1 and 2 had talking sword. But this sword was so serious and had such a background ! :'(
I would be scared to find a sword in BG3. I would be scared it would be a parody of talking sword.

Again, they are missing their shot.

Joined: Oct 2020
E
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
E
Joined: Oct 2020
Humor got "traded" for romance :P


[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Joined: Jul 2014
veteran
Online Content
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
From my point of view, they miss the point about humor.

In BG1 and 2, there was humor but it was pretty well incorporate in the game. Some characters was funny but there was without trying to be. They was just themselfs.


In BG3, I think the companion are not the worst. Astarion is, from my point of view, a little too much of a cliché but that's not what's annoyed me.
What's annoyed me is the humor they put in the environment. The broken guitar, the sentences of goblins in fights. It's all of this details which participate to break the immersion and give this bad DoS feeling.

Yeah, BG1 and 2 had talking sword. But this sword was so serious and had such a background ! :'(
I would be scared to find a sword in BG3. I would be scared it would be a parody of talking sword.

Again, they are missing their shot.

Couldn't disagree more.
And I mean both on how you are framing the old games and the new one.

Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Where is the humor??? lol
Have you been watching these <animated> cinematic dialogues?? Monty python levels of humor there.

The head movements/ body movement while listening.
Long pauses between lines
Starting dialogues behind objects.
Dipping your weapon then starting a dialogue.
Unresponsive lifeless companions in the background while in conversations.


...Nothing of what you are listing is about humor, though?
These are visual glitches and rough edges in the current state of the presentation/production value.


Last edited by Tuco; 12/11/20 10:47 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
Joined: Mar 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2020
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester


Jan is objectively the best character out there! But what's great is that he's not JUST a joke character; his companion quest is quite serious, and at times his stories end up having a non-comedic point to them - like one conversation with Mazzy is actually heartwarming. He's funny - but it's also shown that there's depth to his character.



Agreed completely. It's science. Can't be argued with.

You are absolutely right, his quest gives him depth. Finally the joker's mask slips and you see the pain behind the constant stream of humor. Where Keldorn was a serious as a heart attack that could be only be turned into an object of fun by Jan, Jan is the person who even cracks a joke while dying that become a serious as Keldorn when the love of his life under threat.

I wonder if he is still alive? I mean he was a god of death for a brief period of time, perhaps that did something to lengthen his lifespan.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Jan is objectively the best character out there! But what's great is that he's not JUST a joke character; his companion quest is quite serious, and at times his stories end up having a non-comedic point to them - like one conversation with Mazzy is actually heartwarming. He's funny - but it's also shown that there's depth to his character.


Agreed completely. It's science. Can't be argued with.

You are absolutely right, his quest gives him depth. Finally the joker's mask slips and you see the pain behind the constant stream of humor. Where Keldorn was a serious as a heart attack that could be only be turned into an object of fun by Jan, Jan is the person who even cracks a joke while dying that become a serious as Keldorn when the love of his life under threat.


I wouldn't even say that's a mask; more that humour is a big part of his personality and his default "aspect", but it's not all he is. Jan seriously threatening someone was impactful for sure.

Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I wonder if he is still alive? I mean he was a god of death for a brief period of time, perhaps that did something to lengthen his lifespan.


I mean if he didn't get himself killed? Sure. He's a gnome. According to the FR wikia - "Average lifespan: Usually up to 300 years, but 500 not unheard of". Jan appeared maybe middle aged? I don't think more than 200 years, anyway.

If not Jan, I hope we see some Jansen trying to start a turnip business in BG. A niece, perhaps? Then she could tell stories about Jan, just like Jan referred to his uncles. :P

Joined: Oct 2020
Tuv Offline
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit


I wonder if he is still alive? I mean he was a god of death for a brief period of time, perhaps that did something to lengthen his lifespan.



"when you have that many monkeys, anything is possible"

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by cgexile
Where is Xzar and Montaron?


Dead? BG1 going by this: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=675526#Post675526, In-universe date of game: Starts on 1 Mirtul "May 1st" 1368 DR

BG3 going by this: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=675618#Post675618, in-universe date: possibly 1496 DR, must be a couple months or a couple years after Descent Into Avernus

128 DR difference, going by this: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Marking_the_years. DR is actual full years, at least as far as I could tell.

But I did see Minsc in Neverwinter Online which from what I understand is also just a human, so this guy should be dead as well.

I didn't get far in bg1 and just know these characters by the names, if there is actual lore that lets them live past normal lives I wouldn't know.



The Larian silly-ness I'm used to is generally missing/replaced with awkward events. DOS1 had willy mcwishing well, the two drunk guards Junius and Bibius, guard that was in love with a female orc, & zigzax.


The one that mostly stands out in BG3 is the evil druid lady showing up at the party and being confronted by the couple, coming in second would be the romance part. Both seem rushed and out of no where, like who invited the evil druid?

They did get me on the flying gnome bit though, pull the lever the wrong way for the windmill and gnome goes flying

Last edited by fallenj; 12/11/20 11:40 PM.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5