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#734500 15/11/20 03:32 AM
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Add another critical post and mindless rant to the pile.

I'm honestly convinced that essentially all of the criticism, suggestions, and requests that the people playing through Early Access are making are of no consequence to anyone in an official capacity to do something about it. There are hundreds of posts and thousands of comments either praising, or criticizing, or suggesting things, and there's zero indication through the hotfixes and patches that we've gotten as an acknowledgement of the plethora of issues in this game.

I can't imagine any company would specifically put someone on payroll to go through these comments with a fine-toothed comb, compile a report of even the most common issues, and then sit down with anyone of importance in the company and discuss these things. I run a fairly large company as well, and we certainly wouldn't budget someone to take down notes and bore all of us with the minutiae. The members of these forums sure are trying their absolute best to get senpai to notice them, with all of the pretty formatting and compilations of the most common issues and complaints that span for pages and pages with their peers patting them on the back for their diligence, but even a well-ordered composition with valid points isn't on anyone's radar who could actually deliver any of the results that people are looking for.

If you think that they're listening, take a peek at what the hotfixes and patches have been thus far. Even this early in the process, it's a joke.
"Fixed a bug that less than 1% of users on a largely dead platform (Stadia) are experiencing where talking to a specific NPC with a specific item in your bag while selling a certain scroll will cause the game to crash."
"Fixed a variety of multiplayer issues, when solo players are struggling to even get things to launch or run at 15 fps despite being above minimum spec requirements."
"Included a cutscene to placate the 'This is just DOS3' naysayers."

As opposed to making a solid effort in correcting performance issues, which you'd think would be a priority because the more people that can play as far into the game as possible, the better data they'd be able to pull from all of the hours that we're putting in, these minor, seemingly inconsequential niche fixes are being prioritized instead.

Of course, I don't expect full transparency from any company about their business practices or development processes, but with all of these compiled issues, most of which are extremely common, there's not been any official word or even a nod that any of the concerns have been acknowledged, and the community here takes their silence on the matter as either "They're busy working on it" or "They know what they're doing." At this point, I'm not so sure that either of those things is the case.

I spent the entirety (and a few hours more) of the Steam refund period trying to get the game to run properly because it's a mess on anything other than systems that are well-above the recommended specs. I'd say that of the many hours that I've put in, at least 10% of it was just dedicated to trying to get my capable computer to come to terms with the fact that the current "recommended specs" are actually closer to the "minimum requirements." I'd damn near sell my soul for a refund at this point, just on principle alone. Admittedly, I was one of those "It's Early Access, relax guys!" people in a lot of posts here where people had complaints, but without any meaningful progress through EA and no indication via official word that addresses even a single complaint or request, I'm officially on the other side of the fence now as someone who doesn't want to be a part of this process anymore.

I've supported Larian Studios for the better part of two decades and have rah-rah'd for them as an unofficial cheerleader to the point of embarrassing myself over the years, but being a part of this EA process has really kinda shit in my morning cereal and has tarnished my view of the company. I won't be a lunatic and harangue whoever their social media managers are every time that they make a post from their pages, but I just wanted to vomit out some of the negative energy that's been thrust upon me by the silence and blatant disregard from a company that I used to love so much.

But I know, I know, relax. It's just Early Access, no one cares, the game is fine, and you're really looking forward to the final result and I'm going to feel silly when it releases because it'll be game of the year for 2021.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

Tzelanit #734513 15/11/20 05:05 AM
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You expected an international company like Larian to decide, implement, test AND publish their update in a few weeks ?

The first updates were mostly bug fixing and stuff they already had in the pipes.

- compiling the statistics
- compiling player feedback (they did specify in an interview that they focus on A) feedback sent via the official forms (via launcher) and B) official forums, as the other venues are tough to follow)
- making important decisions on changes to rules and systems
- implies also consulting teams in many countries
- implementing an alpha version of the changes
- internal testing of these changes
- debugging the builds
- quality checks for the build that is planned for Early Access release.

Although I have a lot of respect for the makers of Solasta, a smaller team has the advantage of decisional speed and a simpler design to manage.

Larian will need probably 1 to 3 months before releasing an update with important changes to the design.

Does this mean you are wrong ? It means I do not know and you do not know yet.

Last edited by Baraz; 15/11/20 05:07 AM.
Tzelanit #734523 15/11/20 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I can't imagine any company would specifically put someone on payroll to go through these comments with a fine-toothed comb, compile a report of even the most common issues, and then sit down with anyone of importance in the company and discuss these things.

Except that many non-indie video game developers do exactly that.



Originally Posted by Tzelanit

If you think that they're listening, take a peek at what the hotfixes and patches have been thus far. Even this early in the process, it's a joke.
"Fixed a bug that less than 1% of users on a largely dead platform (Stadia) are experiencing where talking to a specific NPC with a specific item in your bag while selling a certain scroll will cause the game to crash."
"Fixed a variety of multiplayer issues, when solo players are struggling to even get things to launch or run at 15 fps despite being above minimum spec requirements."

They had to cut EA somewhere and release it. Many of the bug fixes were not from user feedback. They were known issues that they couldn't get fixed prior to launch and some of the coding was already done. Thats why they were able to fix so much so fast. In addition to that the fixed some critical errors that were affecting lots of people. Now we are in a lull where some of their team is working on content past EA and others are working on fixing bugs. But all the fixes have to be combined into a releace candidate which has to go through their QC. There is nothing out of the order here and there is nothing to indicate that they are not listening and don't care. In fact, their posts have shown just the opposite. They looked at lots of metrics and released some fun ones to us. Also look at the recent interview where they are talking about the player feedback and specific issues.

So in total, there is no evidence to support your rant and plenty to contradict it.

Tzelanit #734528 15/11/20 06:54 AM
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You paid for BG3 and will get it a little later, right now it is early access but it aint open/cooperative game development. Feedback is always valuable although I suppose right now it's more about seeing how the game works and if it works at all.

Bugs will probably fixed as soon as they are found and if those are the "unimportant" ones, then taking those out of the equation won't have them become "important" later.

Don't spend hundreds of hours if it wasn't asked for, together we can cover all bugs and features with "only" dozens of hours

However, there has been little to no direct interaction on the forums. Forums are usually the smallest, most vocal part of the target demographic. With reddit close second

Tzelanit #734549 15/11/20 08:50 AM
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there was a common complaint if i remember, it was tied to skills overlapping and/ confusion on skills

last patch updated the character creation so skills are more visible to where you get them from

besides that im pretty sure there has been multi posts on interviews where Sven talked about hot topics or hinted about hot topics people been talking about

Tzelanit #734718 15/11/20 04:16 PM
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so youre having a fiti now because they arent implementing RTWP combat because you and 3 other people from RPG codex complained about it yesterday?

Tzelanit #734726 15/11/20 04:41 PM
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In my previous post, I only responded to the theory that Larian is not listening and will not improve the game in consequence.

But there is one point with which I can sympathize with the OP : when you have the minimal specs but a game is nonetheless unplayable and Steam's refund policy is an insult / bad joke.

I remember ARK Survival in Early Access (2015) was too laggy to play for me even on the lowest settings, but I tried troubleshooting it... I past the 4 hours that was allowed back then. Never touched that game ever again. Now I know about Steam's not-really-a-refund policy and remember bitterly (never again!). I "study" a game a lot before buying it.

Steam now only allows 2 hours to troubleshoot and test. In practice, one must consider that Steam does NOT really have a refund policy. That said, I would have trusted the minimal specs stated by Larian, so you can ask Larian for a refund no matter Steam's shitty policy.

( When games use launchers on Steam... the download and install time is counted in the 2 hours !!! I will stop my rant, but I hate that aspect of Steam )

EDIT - ADDENDUM : if, though, you did not try switching to DX11 instead of Vulkan, than I have no sympathy for you at all.

Last edited by Baraz; 15/11/20 05:51 PM.
Tzelanit #734737 15/11/20 05:14 PM
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I think the issue is a very small one of a courtesy. Nobody expects "yeah we are just going to fix all the forum shit overnight" while they are in active development. If ONE official acknowledgement of the existence of a very large number of player concerns is too much to ask in a month of playtesting, why did they bother with EA?

People will get pissed off leaving feedback if Larian don't acknowledge they are reading it. Even if the response is "we don't give a shit we have your money" at least gives the player some perspective. "We are busy doing other shit please be patient", "We took a months vacation because be broke sales records", "We all come down with HEP C after going on a crystal meth binge and freebasing crack". Whatever, any response is better than silence.

Soul-Scar #734738 15/11/20 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Soul-Scar
I think the issue is a very small one of a courtesy. Nobody expects "yeah we are just going to fix all the forum shit overnight" while they are in active development. If ONE official acknowledgement of the existence of a very large number of player concerns is too much to ask in a month of playtesting, why did they bother with EA?

People will get pissed off leaving feedback if Larian don't acknowledge they are reading it. Even if the response is "we don't give a shit we have your money" at least gives the player some perspective. "We are busy doing other shit please be patient", "We took a months vacation because be broke sales records", "We all come down with HEP C after going on a crystal meth binge and freebasing crack". Whatever, any response is better than silence.


This. This is exactly where the fuss and unrest mostly comes from. There's hardly any acknowledgement or feedback on the forums to say 'Hey we're listening. We're doing this this and this and we're focusing on this'.

Last edited by Divine Star; 15/11/20 05:23 PM.
Soul-Scar #734771 15/11/20 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Soul-Scar
I think the issue is a very small one of a courtesy. Nobody expects "yeah we are just going to fix all the forum shit overnight" while they are in active development. If ONE official acknowledgement of the existence of a very large number of player concerns is too much to ask in a month of playtesting, why did they bother with EA?

People will get pissed off leaving feedback if Larian don't acknowledge they are reading it. Even if the response is "we don't give a shit we have your money" at least gives the player some perspective. "We are busy doing other shit please be patient", "We took a months vacation because be broke sales records", "We all come down with HEP C after going on a crystal meth binge and freebasing crack". Whatever, any response is better than silence.


This. I'd legitimately be more content with a flat out "Fuck you, thanks for the cash" or some bullshit diplomatic corporate response about appreciating our patience than I am with the current dead air.
This isn't my first EA rodeo for a game, but it certainly is the first one where the content was quite this broken, quite this poorly-optimized, and there was quite this much silence about all of the feedback.
This would be far easier to deal with if I hadn't been a fan of the company for so long because this isn't just blind troll rage, this is legitimate frustration with people that I've loved for decades.
I don't want to see Larian go the way of the other big name RPG companies that are now soulless husks pandering to their fanbase by doing the bare minimum. They're supposed to be better than this.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

Tzelanit #734774 15/11/20 06:46 PM
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Let it depend on what's in patch3. Keep in mind that the majority of the team is working on the full game and only a small amount is doing EA duty.

Vhaldez #734841 15/11/20 10:04 PM
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I haven't read the whole discussion, but I agree enemies should be able to hear you when you try to sneak and backstab them while in medium or heavy armor. Deaf Ears is a very bad design choice.

Err... I mean Larian probably had a very long list of bugs and whatnot in backlog when they released EA. They also likely struggle with Covid situation. Give them at least a few months before they can parse all the feedback.

Soul-Scar #734843 15/11/20 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Soul-Scar
Nobody expects "yeah we are just going to fix all the forum shit overnight" while they are in active development. If ONE official acknowledgement of the existence of a very large number of player concerns is too much to ask in a month of playtesting, why did they bother with EA?

People will get pissed off leaving feedback if Larian don't acknowledge they are reading it. Even if the response is "we don't give a shit we have your money" at least gives the player some perspective. "We are busy doing other shit please be patient", "We took a months vacation because be broke sales records", "We all come down with HEP C after going on a crystal meth binge and freebasing crack". Whatever, any response is better than silence.


I dont think so, my overall experience i the internet is, that there are indeed a lot of people who expecting exactly this "yeah, we re just going to fix ll the forum shit overnight".
I trust Larian and im confident they are listening but i can understand that some people doubt that. However you have to agree that any official acknowledgement in terms like "we are listening" would be misinterpretated as "yes, we fix everything you want in one week" by a lot of people and lead to even higher expectations like everyone wants his cherrypicked issues. Its just the way how the internet works, even if we are all full adults, an anonym online forum turns us into childish brats- well at least a lot of people.

Larian proved that they deliver more than they promised, and that they care about the fans (remember the free gift bags for DOS II?) and they are more transparent than any other company of that size known to me, just be patient.
EA has just been around for like a month which is literally nothing.

Maldurin #734883 16/11/20 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Maldurin
Originally Posted by Soul-Scar
Nobody expects "yeah we are just going to fix all the forum shit overnight" while they are in active development. If ONE official acknowledgement of the existence of a very large number of player concerns is too much to ask in a month of playtesting, why did they bother with EA?

People will get pissed off leaving feedback if Larian don't acknowledge they are reading it. Even if the response is "we don't give a shit we have your money" at least gives the player some perspective. "We are busy doing other shit please be patient", "We took a months vacation because be broke sales records", "We all come down with HEP C after going on a crystal meth binge and freebasing crack". Whatever, any response is better than silence.


I dont think so, my overall experience i the internet is, that there are indeed a lot of people who expecting exactly this "yeah, we re just going to fix ll the forum shit overnight".
I trust Larian and im confident they are listening but i can understand that some people doubt that. However you have to agree that any official acknowledgement in terms like "we are listening" would be misinterpretated as "yes, we fix everything you want in one week" by a lot of people and lead to even higher expectations like everyone wants his cherrypicked issues. Its just the way how the internet works, even if we are all full adults, an anonym online forum turns us into childish brats- well at least a lot of people.

Larian proved that they deliver more than they promised, and that they care about the fans (remember the free gift bags for DOS II?) and they are more transparent than any other company of that size known to me, just be patient.
EA has just been around for like a month which is literally nothing.


To be fair, nobody expected Square Enix to sell out as hard as they have lately. They also started off as a small company that put the expectations of the players first and crafted experiences that were meant to leave a lasting impression, but over time they grew to love the money more than their dedicated fans, and they didn't have to put out as great of a product because they had a fanatical, established fanbase.

I just really don't want that to be the case with Larian, and every day that goes by without some acknowledgement of the hundreds of issues that have been presented to them, they step an inch closer to being that soulless AAA company that puts out games that are "good enough" that will have the full backing of rabid, mindless, long-time consumers who will forgive them for anything.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

Tzelanit #734890 16/11/20 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tzelanit


I spent the entirety (and a few hours more) of the Steam refund period trying to get the game to run properly because it's a mess on anything other than systems that are well-above the recommended specs.
.



Oooh, this is not good. I have been avoiding the Early Access partly because I have a slightly sub-minimal machine: i5-2400, 16 GB RAM, Intel HD Graphics, but with a very cool solid-state drive which I love. I can live without seeing ripples on pools of water, moving shadows, etc., so I was hoping there would eventually be some minimal graphics setting that I might be able to choose. Does Larian have a system compatibility check .exe file that I can run? That would be useful.

Tzelanit #734907 16/11/20 03:33 AM
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I would have preferred more transparent info to their customers.. The silence imo does not help them out at all.

Argyle #734924 16/11/20 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Argyle
Originally Posted by Tzelanit


I spent the entirety (and a few hours more) of the Steam refund period trying to get the game to run properly because it's a mess on anything other than systems that are well-above the recommended specs.
.



Oooh, this is not good. I have been avoiding the Early Access partly because I have a slightly sub-minimal machine: i5-2400, 16 GB RAM, Intel HD Graphics, but with a very cool solid-state drive which I love. I can live without seeing ripples on pools of water, moving shadows, etc., so I was hoping there would eventually be some minimal graphics setting that I might be able to choose. Does Larian have a system compatibility check .exe file that I can run? That would be useful.


The minimal graphics settings essentially make the game look like a low-budget Playstation 1 game from an indie company. Running the game with no shadows makes the game scorchingly bright while running the game with low shadows makes the shadows have defined square edges and everything is blanketed in a blur, running low textures makes everything muddy and things barely resemble their intended appearance, and on low AA settings, the jagged edges are so pronounced that the entire landscape looks like a cubist painting.

I assumed, much like you did, that low or medium settings would just mean that everything looks relatively average, modern and at least somewhat clean, but nowhere near spectacular. The disparity between low and medium settings are the equivalent of the difference between the graphics of two full generations of consoles, and the disparity between medium and ultra settings is at least 3 generations. So essentially, the game on low is PS1, the game on medium is barely PS3, and the game on ultra would be somewhere between PS5 and PS6, as an example.

I can run the game on a combination of mostly low with some medium settings just so that it doesn't look vile, but even then, reaching 30FPS on a rig that's comparable to your specs is pushing it and only tends to happen in enclosed areas where the world isn't drawn infinitely, like caves or underground ruins. And I understand that it's a different engine and that the game is older at this point, but for comparison, I'm still able to play Divinity: Original Sin 2 at Ultra settings with everything maxed out without even the slightest hitch in the frame rate at any point (which I suspect is because the game intelligently uses a fog of war system that blacks out the scenery that's not been explored, so you don't pointlessly see the horizon for miles out like you do in BG3 when you zoom all the way in just for the sake of pretty screenshots.)

And as Larian's been woefully silent and for some reason there aren't a lot of discussions about performance because apparently everyone on these forums has a fantastic PC that's well-above recommended specs, I'm not entirely confident that any level of optimization is going to bring the game in line with its actual spec recommendations, and Larian's not going to correct it because complaints about performance are apparently rare and therefore won't get any visibility. And even if posts about performance were common, we'd never know they were being addressed because of the deafening silence.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

Tzelanit #734925 16/11/20 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tzelanit
Originally Posted by Argyle
Originally Posted by Tzelanit


I spent the entirety (and a few hours more) of the Steam refund period trying to get the game to run properly because it's a mess on anything other than systems that are well-above the recommended specs.
.



Oooh, this is not good. I have been avoiding the Early Access partly because I have a slightly sub-minimal machine: i5-2400, 16 GB RAM, Intel HD Graphics, but with a very cool solid-state drive which I love. I can live without seeing ripples on pools of water, moving shadows, etc., so I was hoping there would eventually be some minimal graphics setting that I might be able to choose. Does Larian have a system compatibility check .exe file that I can run? That would be useful.


The minimal graphics settings essentially make the game look like a low-budget Playstation 1 game from an indie company. Running the game with no shadows makes the game scorchingly bright while running the game with low shadows makes the shadows have defined square edges and everything is blanketed in a blur, running low textures makes everything muddy and things barely resemble their intended appearance, and on low AA settings, the jagged edges are so pronounced that the entire landscape looks like a cubist painting.

I assumed, much like you did, that low or medium settings would just mean that everything looks relatively average, modern and at least somewhat clean, but nowhere near spectacular. The disparity between low and medium settings are the equivalent of the difference between the graphics of two full generations of consoles, and the disparity between medium and ultra settings is at least 3 generations. So essentially, the game on low is PS1, the game on medium is barely PS3, and the game on ultra would be somewhere between PS5 and PS6, as an example.

I can run the game on a combination of mostly low with some medium settings just so that it doesn't look vile, but even then, reaching 30FPS on a rig that's comparable to your specs is pushing it and only tends to happen in enclosed areas where the world isn't drawn infinitely, like caves or underground ruins. And I understand that it's a different engine and that the game is older at this point, but for comparison, I'm still able to play Divinity: Original Sin 2 at Ultra settings with everything maxed out without even the slightest hitch in the frame rate at any point (which I suspect is because the game intelligently uses a fog of war system that blacks out the scenery that's not been explored, so you don't pointlessly see the horizon for miles out like you do in BG3 when you zoom all the way in just for the sake of pretty screenshots.)

And as Larian's been woefully silent and for some reason there aren't a lot of discussions about performance because apparently everyone on these forums has a fantastic PC that's well-above recommended specs, I'm not entirely confident that any level of optimization is going to bring the game in line with its actual spec recommendations, and Larian's not going to correct it because complaints about performance are apparently rare and won't get any visibility.

What exactly did you want to talk about? On my old computer you can still run the game on all low and reduced res. the only major problem is the cinematic after intro ship. that will hang for 10-15 minutes, other than that it was workable.

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They will possibly start listening when the money they've made so far runs out and they need good reviews to sell more copies.

Or they'll abandon the project, pocket the cash and start another cash-quick enterprise making money out of an old title.

Either way, this is only speculation just like every other post on this forum, as without communication from Larry there can be no informed answers.

I've already uninstalled BG3 on the laptop as it takes too much room for something I'm already bored of. Debating whether or not to do the same on the PC.

Would another patch stop this? Not unless there was some new, real content or a few more levels to get some decent aoe spells, or dare I say it, a 6 man team. Bug fixes aren't going to rekindle my interest.

They wanted fast cash, they got it.

For some reason of all the ea games I've had (probably around 50) and all the AD&D games (probably all ever made for the pc) this one has managed to bore the pants off me. I'm not sure why, maybe its the lack of content, maybe I've moved on in gaming terms or maybe its the horrific price still playing on my mind.

I'd never heard of this company before I got this game. Can't wait to forget them.

MatronPain #735061 16/11/20 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MatronPain
They will possibly start listening when the money they've made so far runs out and they need good reviews to sell more copies.

Or they'll abandon the project, pocket the cash and start another cash-quick enterprise making money out of an old title.

Either way, this is only speculation just like every other post on this forum, as without communication from Larry there can be no informed answers.

I've already uninstalled BG3 on the laptop as it takes too much room for something I'm already bored of. Debating whether or not to do the same on the PC.

Would another patch stop this? Not unless there was some new, real content or a few more levels to get some decent aoe spells, or dare I say it, a 6 man team. Bug fixes aren't going to rekindle my interest.

They wanted fast cash, they got it.

For some reason of all the ea games I've had (probably around 50) and all the AD&D games (probably all ever made for the pc) this one has managed to bore the pants off me. I'm not sure why, maybe its the lack of content, maybe I've moved on in gaming terms or maybe its the horrific price still playing on my mind.

I'd never heard of this company before I got this game. Can't wait to forget them.

That's a lot of bullshit for such a small comment. Come on man. You talk as if this is something Larian does with all of their EAs.

Regarding the main topic - it all boils down to how patient you are. I am a little more patient than you, but I do agree that the longer Larian will keep since, the less confindenc we will have in their intentions. There is a limit to how much time we are gonna give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm still willing to wait and see, but I expect some form of response soon.

And I completely agree about your technical complaints. However, I just think it's important to mention that final version of dos2 is the best crpg I've ever played performance wise

Last edited by Abits; 16/11/20 01:22 PM.

Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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