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This is a thought that I've had for a long time now and discussed in other threads before, but how many of you still think that they will read and pay attention to our gameplay ideas?

I have the feeling all they care is to use us for stability play-testing and bug reporting only, since no official gameplay surveys have been made, this forum is old and hasn't been optimized to highlight the posts that people like the most, a like button, an upvoting system... I haven't seen official community managers commenting on these forums either, or even acknowledging that they are reading our ideas.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Maybe I am wrong about it, but I think that if they really cared about that they would be focused on that already since some of the changes we are suggesting are going to take a long time and need a complete rework of some areas or mechanics of the game (like camping mechanics or dialogues and party size).

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I guess they gather some feedback but cannot expect they will follow each and every idea they would find here.

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I made a long post that discusses this, so I'm mostly with you.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=734500#Post734500


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

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I think some of you will continue down this moronic thought process in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. It fits perfectly with US society. Fake news. Feels are more important than facts. etc.

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Oh good, another one of these threads.

Larian cares about feedback. The ways in which they can implement that feedback, even if it is very good, are limited. We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.

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And for the people who was there for DOS 2 Early access... was the game really bad at the beginning and Larian heard the player's opinions and improved the game a lot?

Cause BG3 right now has solid issues on game design. That is what worries me the most, bugs and crashes of course are expected, but some decisions like party movement, dialogues, travelling and camping mechanics, and custom characters being soulless mute mannequins is what troubles me the most, it doesn't seem like they are going to change their mind on the way they chose to do those things...

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Oh good, another one of these threads.

Larian cares about feedback. The ways in which they can implement that feedback, even if it is very good, are limited. We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.


I'm pretty sure I just posted in a thread like this a few days ago...so would you say every few days we get this?


Originally Posted by drimaxus
And for the people who was there for DOS 2 Early access... was the game really bad at the beginning and Larian heard the player's opinions and improved the game a lot?

Cause BG3 right now has solid issues on game design. That is what worries me the most, bugs and crashes of course are expected, but some decisions like party movement, dialogues, travelling and camping mechanics, and custom characters being soulless mute mannequins is what troubles me the most, it doesn't seem like they are going to change their mind on the way they chose to do those things...




What changed?

Pretty sure there was a post earlier where you can get the general hint they listen from interviews if you really want to know.

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Originally Posted by drimaxus
Cause BG3 right now has solid issues on game design. That is what worries me the most, bugs and crashes of course are expected, but some decisions like party movement, dialogues, travelling and camping mechanics, and custom characters being soulless mute mannequins is what troubles me the most, it doesn't seem like they are going to change their mind on the way they chose to do those things...


BG3 EA was released in much earlier development than DOS2. That is why I don't expect this game before 2022.

New engine, new rule system, cinematics and bigger scope, it is their first AAA. They rushed to do EA, but for a polished final product will take much longer.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MUdH5DoACY&t=1793s

What changed?

Pretty sure there was a post earlier where you can get the general hint they listen from interviews if you really want to know.


Dear god, I hadn't checked any of the early DOS2 EA footage before, holly, it's an entirely different game compared to what we have now. I am legit impressed. This gives me hope that stuff will be dramatically changed by the time BG3 1.0 is here.

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Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by fallenj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MUdH5DoACY&t=1793s

What changed?

Pretty sure there was a post earlier where you can get the general hint they listen from interviews if you really want to know.


Dear god, I hadn't checked any of the early DOS2 EA footage before, holly, it's an entirely different game compared to what we have now. I am legit impressed. This gives me hope that stuff will be dramatically changed by the time BG3 1.0 is here.


What do you mean? Not much has changed, the EA doesn't have the voice acting and the game received some new skills, some balance changes and two extra origin characters before launch but that is pretty much it. That seems like a lot to you? Check this thread for more details:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/io18gb/for_reference_changes_during_the_divinity/

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies


Larian cares about feedback. The ways in which they can implement that feedback, even if it is very good, are limited. We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.


There are studios that tell you what they are working on and ask for feedback that gets implemented into the game, examples are Paradox Development, Hello Games, Avalanche studios. As a matter of fact I've had the experience of being the first suggesting a mechanic that got implemented into the game afterwards and that felt so gratifying, to feel like they actually read what the community is saying... I don't feel like that with Larian. There is nobody from Larian in this forums, actively reading and answering posts!

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Originally Posted by drimaxus
What do you mean? Not much has changed, the EA doesn't have the voice acting and the game received some new skills, some balance changes and two extra origin characters before launch but that is pretty much it. That seems like a lot to you? Check this thread for more details:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/io18gb/for_reference_changes_during_the_divinity/


Have you even read this reddit post you linked? Cause it's a lot more than added 'voice acting', 'new skills', 'some balance changes' and new origin characters before launch. DOS2 in the beginning didn't even have this tutorial zone (da boat, equivalent of our nautiloid), no movies/cinematics in the beginning (yknow, the stuff that replaces that letter in the beginning of the YT vid). Hell, even graphically, from what I can tell, if the YT vid had it on high/ultra, characters and environment had a lot less detail than they do now, what sure, with technological improvements obviously the older games will look better, duh.

As of now, a bit over 1 month into the EA I really don't understand some of these complaints. Some small changes were already patched in, bigger changes will take time. Some of you are complaining for the sake of complaining. I personally have already sent quite huge bug reports to Larian that still haven't been patched in... and I don't expect them to be patched for the next few months and I'm talking about GAMEBREAKING bugs, not just small ones, cause finding the cause of those bugs (which I wrote to them how to replicate them and at what points they appear exactly) and alienating them in the code without breaking even more stuff is going to take time. I would be surprised if they got fixed in the upcoming patch. You people need to take a chill pill and get some patience.

Originally Posted by drimaxus
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies


Larian cares about feedback. The ways in which they can implement that feedback, even if it is very good, are limited. We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.


There are studios that tell you what they are working on and ask for feedback that gets implemented into the game, examples are Paradox Development, Hello Games, Avalanche studios. As a matter of fact I've had the experience of being the first suggesting a mechanic that got implemented into the game afterwards and that felt so gratifying, to feel like they actually read what the community is saying... I don't feel like that with Larian. There is nobody from Larian in this forums, actively reading and answering posts!




So basically you want to have your ego stroked by (in Larian's case) large developers listening to you and implementing your ideas into the game?

If you really want them to listen to you, send your ideas to them via the feedback button on the launcher. Or even do all - launcher feedback, forums and reddit, if you want to ensure you are heard.

Last edited by Nicottia; 17/11/20 02:56 AM.
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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.



And in regards to "they don't need to tell us" well, they asked our money and support in advance, as a vote of confidence so they very well should keep us updated on what is going on and what is coming soon, don't you agree?

If you ask someone for their money in advance and you ask them to trust you the least you can do is assign someone in your team to keep in touch with them and let them be part of the process. Think about kickstarters for example, when people invest in you and trust your name you should not let them down because I know for sure if BG3 dissapoints me I won't buy another Larian game, and that will happen with a lot of other people too.

Last edited by drimaxus; 17/11/20 02:44 AM.
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Originally Posted by drimaxus
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.



And in regards to "they don't need to tell us" well, they asked our money and support in advance, as a vote of confidence so they very well should keep us updated on what is going on and what is coming soon, don't you agree?

If you ask someone for their money in advance and you ask them to trust you the least you can do is assign someone in your team to keep in touch with them and let them be part of the process. Think about kickstarters for example, when people invest in you and trust your name you should not let them down because I know for sure if BG3 dissapoints me I won't buy another Larian game, and that will happen with a lot of other people too.


Fire said "need" you are arguing "should". Different ideas. Both correct IMO.

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151
I think some of you will continue down this moronic thought process in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. It fits perfectly with US society. Fake news. Feels are more important than facts. etc.

Not sure what US society has to do with a Belgian game developer or vice versa, but kindly don't use gratuitously inflammatory descriptions like "moronic thought process", thanks.


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I understand people defending Larian because "reasons", I really do. Do bare in mind however most people react to their current experience and cannot draw on the tadpole to psychicly draw motive from a silent development team. While I have good insticts they do not extend to reading Decembers patch notes in Novemeber or determining mechanical changes Larian will be implementing at a later date using blind optimism.

Until I develop the gift of tadpole imposed optimistic clairvoyance I will have to rely on actual feedback from Larian. laugh

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Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by fallenj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MUdH5DoACY&t=1793s

What changed?

Pretty sure there was a post earlier where you can get the general hint they listen from interviews if you really want to know.


Dear god, I hadn't checked any of the early DOS2 EA footage before, holly, it's an entirely different game compared to what we have now. I am legit impressed. This gives me hope that stuff will be dramatically changed by the time BG3 1.0 is here.

Most of the things that were added had nothing to do with feedback, they were just featured they were going to add regardless.
During DOS2 EA the forum was full of dozens of theads complaining about how the armour system felt bad and video gamey, yet that issue was unaddressed until Swen Vincke said in some post-release interview that it probably shouldn't have been added after all.

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Originally Posted by drimaxus
I haven't seen official community managers commenting on these forums either, or even acknowledging that they are reading our ideas.


So since Vometia thinks my response was inflammatory, I will provide facts that directly dispute the OPs claims and hope that is not inflammatory.

Larian responding to a feedback thread: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=94360&Number=731263#Post731263
Larian commenting that they are working on fixing a problem: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87598&Number=731133#Post731133
Larian thanking us for the feedback we have been providing and giving us a hotfix: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=93920&Number=723217#Post723217
Larian thanking us for our feedback and asking us to continue. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87468&Number=677655#Post677655
And that's just here in these forums.

What about a quote from the man himself a week ago where he says they are listening to people's complaints and considering ways to address them: “We see the people that have really bad luck, and they are really, really angry over it. So, we're going to help them. We're going to add modes to the game that are going to go with things like a loaded die, and that's going to be a bit more manageable. We'll still keep the option of having full RNG in there. We'll experiment with that throughout early access, and see what we should make the default option. That's one of the things that will be driven by the analytics.” https://www.ign.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-early-access-changes-player-data-feedback-larian

Sorry if my earlier post was inflammatory, but I feel this thread is inflammatory since it is contradicted by factual evidence that is not hard to find if you look for it.

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151

Originally Posted by drimaxus
I haven't seen official community managers commenting on these forums either, or even acknowledging that they are reading our ideas.


So since Vometia thinks my response was inflammatory, I will provide facts that directly dispute the OPs claims and hope that is not inflammatory.

Larian responding to a feedback thread: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=94360&Number=731263#Post731263
Larian commenting that they are working on fixing a problem: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87598&Number=731133#Post731133
Larian thanking us for the feedback we have been providing and giving us a hotfix: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=93920&Number=723217#Post723217
Larian thanking us for our feedback and asking us to continue. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87468&Number=677655#Post677655
And that's just here in these forums.

What about a quote from the man himself a week ago where he says they are listening to people's complaints and considering ways to address them: “We see the people that have really bad luck, and they are really, really angry over it. So, we're going to help them. We're going to add modes to the game that are going to go with things like a loaded die, and that's going to be a bit more manageable. We'll still keep the option of having full RNG in there. We'll experiment with that throughout early access, and see what we should make the default option. That's one of the things that will be driven by the analytics.” https://www.ign.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-early-access-changes-player-data-feedback-larian

Sorry if my earlier post was inflammatory, but I feel this thread is inflammatory since it is contradicted by factual evidence that is not hard to find if you look for it.


On the one hand, this list of very specific comments doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence about Larian's willingness to change any of their initial plans.

But since we didn't get anything more concrete, we can make some safe assumptions on the matter:
1) Larian does read these forums, otherwise it might have been impossible for them to find these specific posts
2) Larian is willing to respond in some cases.
Now the rest is pure speculation and depends on the way one chooses to interpret these safe assumptions. You can be very pessimistic and say they only care about fixing bugs and use us to do so, or you can be optimistic and say they only respond to things they have a plan for and already started working on.

Last edited by Abits; 17/11/20 09:26 AM.

Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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I get the feeling confirmation bias will be strong in these threads down the line...

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