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Joined: Oct 2020
Ange Offline OP
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I always find it funny that you can make your character as physically appealing as you like, then dump charisma to 8. I think it would be better from a utilization of other classes as well if you enjoy a physically appealing face on your character you may gravitate toward more charisma based characters. My suggestions:

1. Have players first assign stats
2. Pick race as second, because the ability bonuses are supposed to influence AFTER stat assignment
3. Pick class based on minimal scores - a wizard cannot be picked with an intel of 8 (knowing you will get an artifact later to boost your intel - how did you make it through mage school).
4. Customize your appearance based on the final charisma score - could even impact which voice we can pick.

What do you guys think?

Edit: I am aware charisma does not = attractiveness, but attractiveness does impact charisma. I am not suggesting you make characters ugly with a CH of 8, simply the options are slightly restricted compared to one with CH of 17 or 18. That is all. You could have tiers, so that (-1 vs 0 vs +3 >) you have additional options, but clearly its not popular.
I just find that Str, Dex, Con, Intel, and Wis are so much more preferred stats compared to Charisma and this would reward people picking characters with better charisma compared to another STAT. Why would you ever pick a fighter with a charisma of 10, just meta-game and dump it. That is what I don't like in D&D because there is no drawback to dumping charisma stats for characters as most of the time someone else in the party will manage the conversation and persuasion, but a low DEX or constitution impacts every fight.

Last edited by Ange; 21/11/20 10:11 PM.
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enthusiast
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Doesn't work for me. Most charismatic dictators were ugly as frogs.

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journeyman
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No.

Charisma and comeliness are not the same, to the point of them being separate stats back in original DnD. As appearance choices are purely cosmetic and confer no in-game benefits, they should not be keyed off of player stat investment. That's just arbitrarily and unnecessarily limiting player choice.

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old hand
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old hand
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Adding my no to the pile. Charisma =/ appearance.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
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Cleric of Innuendo
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It's been a common mistake since the earliest days that CHA is physical attractiveness. It isn't, and never has been. Although appearance might play a part, CHA is personal magnetism and leadership.

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Cleric of Innuendo
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lol, sorry OP.

Looking at the thread it looks like everyone dog-piling your suggestion. Just an impression caused by everyone posting the same thing at the same time.

Joined: Mar 2020
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old hand
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I am all for stats defining visual look (strength - more muscles etc). However, I don’t think charisma = beauty. (I loved BTW how arcanum had both!). A physically ugly or average person can be charismatic, and real hunk can’t be bland and forgettable (see Henry Cavill, a hot piece of bland).

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journeyman
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As has been said charisma is a lot more than just physical appearance. How you speak. How you carry yourself.

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Ange Offline OP
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You all misunderstand the premise. Appearance does impact charisma, but clearly it is not even close to the whole pictures. I am simply saying to restrict some options if your CH is 8 vs 17 or 18. That is all. Could be like 3 tiers. (-1, vs 0 vs >+3)

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Sure but appearance and who is hot , ugly, or regular looking are subjective. Someone might be considered good looking by others but I might think he or she isn't all that.

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Ange Offline OP
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I am not suggesting picking attractive vs ugly options simply, more or less options as a reward for higher charisma.

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enthusiast
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Originally Posted by Ange
I am not suggesting picking attractive vs ugly options simply, more or less options as a reward for higher charisma.

It's a pointless "reward". Character looks are cosmetic only, npcs in the game react to dialogue choices & roll results, not whatever hair color you've chosen for your toon. Players should be free to choose whatever looks they want for their characters.

I'd rather Larian adds more variety in general, and older faces too.

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enthusiast
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Originally Posted by ash elemental


I'd rather Larian adds more variety in general, and older faces too.


Sliders and few more options for hair/facial hair

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old hand
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No.

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enthusiast
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yeah. Sorry OP but I agree with the others in this regard. Beauty is subjective and strictly speaking, you're not promoting a reward, you're promoting a limitation to those that don't want to play high CHA classes (yes, I saw your thread about sorcs smile )

Stats shouldn't reflect the physical appearence of your character as it limits roleplaying.

Edit: Oops, sorry. The sorc request was not yours. Arne and Ange sure look similar at first view though smile

Last edited by PrivateRaccoon; 21/11/20 08:11 PM.
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apprentice
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no

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stranger
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No - anyone can look great but be garbage inside, and the reverse is also true.

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enthusiast
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I'd say it would be more relevant if high charisma ability check bonuses offered alternate conversion choices, but that wouldn't really be fair either because you can say whatever you want in Dnd. The DC is what really prevents a low CHA character from pulling off ridiculous diplomatic choices in a convincing way, not their ability to come up with it.

Joined: Jun 2020
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Please understand, OP, even if you're only suggesting that it should put some kind of lesser restriction or subset on your options, in doing so you would still be saying, ultimately, that visual appearance absolutely IS an essential part of your charisma.... and that is the thing that I think most people here are disagreeing with. It's not essential to being charismatic; it can sure help, but it's not essential... and by making charisma have an impact on your visual options, no matter how minor, you'd be saying that it was.

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I'm sorry, I have met plenty of attractive people that I would give a CHR lower than 9.

Also, why do you care how other people play their games? If someone wants to meta and dump INT for the headband, it doesn't affect you.

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