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I don't like it when high fantasy races like Dragonblorn, Aasimar and Tieflings are turned into generic races. It takes the special out of them and they become mundane. And there's the contradiction because they are not ordinary in Forgotten Realms. In tabletop with a good DM you can of course write a proper story around them, but not in a CRPG.

Imagine a 4 player party where everyone is a Tiefling, Dragonborn, Aasimar or Minotaur. It becomes a bit of a competition who's more fantastical. What was the story again? Right, there was a story that wasn't about these strange creatures. How are NPCs going to react to this spectacular gallery of the fantastical and monstrous when they enter the gates of Baldur's Gate?

Last edited by 1varangian; 26/11/20 07:05 AM.
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
I don't like it when high fantasy races like Dragonblorn, Aasimar and Tieflings are turned into generic races. It takes the special out of them and they become mundane. And there's the contradiction because they are not ordinary in Forgotten Realms. In tabletop with a good DM you can of course write a proper story around them, but not in a CRPG.

Imagine a 4 player party where everyone is a Tiefling, Dragonborn, Aasimar or Minotaur. It becomes a bit of a competition who's more fantastical. What was the story again? Right, there was a story that wasn't about these strange creatures. How are NPCs going to react to this spectacular gallery of the fantastical and monstrous when they enter the gates of Baldur's Gate?

Yeah that's why I think most of the remaining companions should be human. Throw in a dwarf, sure, but I want more humans. I'm personally unhappy with the possibility of a tiefling paladin in the party but it looks like it's happening. At least I can kill her if I don't like her, which is always a nice touch in video games.

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Originally Posted by Eldath
I'm personally unhappy with the possibility of a tiefling paladin in the party but it looks like it's happening. At least I can kill her if I don't like her, which is always a nice touch in video games.

Frankly, I don't understand what the problem is with tiefling paladin.
Since the third edition, D&D began experimenting with the paladin archetype, which led to the emergence of classes such as antipaladin (blackguard), who known to affiliate themselves with demons and serve dark, generally malevolent deities, and are described as being hated by all other races and classes that serve good.. The Fifth Edition also features "unusual" versions of the paladin, from the Oath of Conquest paladins serving the forces of the Nine Hells to the Oathbreaker who replace the previously mentioned blackguards.
So what's the problem?

Last edited by BuckettMonkey; 26/11/20 08:17 AM.

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Originally Posted by Eldath

Yeah that's why I think most of the remaining companions should be human. Throw in a dwarf, sure, but I want more humans. I'm personally unhappy with the possibility of a tiefling paladin in the party but it looks like it's happening. At least I can kill her if I don't like her, which is always a nice touch in video games.


This would be the worst case scenario for me. We already have two humans and a half-human in the game. Let players who actually like the fantastical races have options too.

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Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
Originally Posted by Eldath

Yeah that's why I think most of the remaining companions should be human. Throw in a dwarf, sure, but I want more humans. I'm personally unhappy with the possibility of a tiefling paladin in the party but it looks like it's happening. At least I can kill her if I don't like her, which is always a nice touch in video games.


This would be the worst case scenario for me. We already have two humans and a half-human in the game. Let players who actually like the fantastical races have options too.


+1, I'd like a no-humans-allowed party. Tried to make it in BG1, but Branwen (and party comp/alignment matters) ruined my plans. :P

However, I agree with this:

Originally Posted by 1varangian
I don't like it when high fantasy races like Dragonblorn, Aasimar and Tieflings are turned into generic races. It takes the special out of them and they become mundane. And there's the contradiction because they are not ordinary in Forgotten Realms. In tabletop with a good DM you can of course write a proper story around them, but not in a CRPG.


The "special" races should feel special and be rare in the world. For companions, have a good explanation why they're what they are and why they're there. I think the tiefling camp would work better later on in the game, once our perception is "anchored" in the mundane world of human peasants and Tolkien race common bandits.

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The problem is that every aspect of the races and Lore are Human aspects translated into a Game World.

Orcs can be described as green painted human barbarian tribes.
Elfs are to often humanized and simply pretty humans and no long living race which have another view of the world.



A good race in my eyes are dwarfes because the living under the earth, the importance of crafting, and the isolated culture gives a mixture which cant be translated easy in a human version.

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all gnome/drow custom parties ftw

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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester

The "special" races should feel special and be rare in the world. For companions, have a good explanation why they're what they are and why they're there. I think the tiefling camp would work better later on in the game, once our perception is "anchored" in the mundane world of human peasants and Tolkien race common bandits.


Too bad that D&D doesn't treat those races as special. Foe example in the latest D&D adventure up in the far north there is a dragonborn "protector" of a village with no explanation of how he got there all alone.

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Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey

Frankly, I don't understand what the problem is with tiefling paladin.
Since the third edition, D&D began experimenting with the paladin archetype, which led to the emergence of classes such as antipaladin (blackguard), who known to affiliate themselves with demons and serve dark, generally malevolent deities, and are described as being hated by all other races and classes that serve good.. The Fifth Edition also features "unusual" versions of the paladin, from the Oath of Conquest paladins serving the forces of the Nine Hells to the Oathbreaker who replace the previously mentioned blackguards.
So what's the problem?

Yeah I have a problem with evil paladins in general. Make them a separate class and call them blackguards. That's one thing 3rd edition definitely did better.
Basically this tiefling paladin is a special snowflake race with a special snowflake class.
The Paladin as a title was iconic of goodie two shoes, and it should have remained as such. The word "Paladin" still carries connotations of being an upstanding good person, which a tiefling is just not going to be, because that's not what they are about, for one, and for two, if they make our tiefling companion into an upstanding good person that will merely give a third exra special snowflake point at which I will just throw my hands up and murder her.
Actually scratch that, I will just be fooled by those "paladins" of Tyr and kill her.

Last edited by Eldath; 26/11/20 01:00 PM.
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There is nothing that says that tieflings can't be good. They're a standard PC race. They can be any alignment.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
There is nothing that says that tieflings can't be good. They're a standard PC race. They can be any alignment.

I know and I hate it.

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Originally Posted by Eldath
That being said the one non-human companion I would love to have is a halfling MALE, because if we had to suffer through all those gnome companions in D&D games I think we finally deserve a properly written halfling. Just don't make him into a goofball, like a barbarian who carries a gigantic weapon on his small frame.


I enjoyed Tommi Undergallows as a halfling rogue companion in Neverwinter Nights, and I never thought it was a badly written companion.

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I do like certain races having a penchant for good or evil but i feel like outright forcing them to be one alignment or the other is needlessly restrictive, especially when they're good or evil because of some abstract thing (like it would be for aasimar and tieflings) rather than because of something tangible, like the societies they live in. Probably why i find githyanki, that i knew nothing about before this game, kind of interesting, and same for drow and duergar.

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Originally Posted by AnonySimon
Originally Posted by Eldath
That being said the one non-human companion I would love to have is a halfling MALE, because if we had to suffer through all those gnome companions in D&D games I think we finally deserve a properly written halfling. Just don't make him into a goofball, like a barbarian who carries a gigantic weapon on his small frame.


I enjoyed Tommi Undergallows as a halfling rogue companion in Neverwinter Nights, and I never thought it was a badly written companion.

Now there's a game I never played xD

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I'd love an elfy elf too! I liked Sand in NWN 2 though even he could've been elfier since he lived in Neverwinter for a long time as merchant. I can't even remember a true elfish behaving companion in an RPG.
I also agree that the existing companions would profit from behaving a bit more like what and how old they are. Also a Paladin would really be nice. And a warrior that is not a psycho or arse. Some fellows that good aligned characters could get along with easily. The current cast seems to be for evil aligned characters really.


- Shadowheart seems to act like a very young half-elf at least in that her reactions truly seem to be just a front and behind that is the unexperienced and uncertain girl. I mean I could actually believe that one can kinda uh... educate or convince Shadowheart a bit because her core being seems not to be evil. Just her front.
- But Lae'Zel? No thanks lol. I'd rather kiss a real frog.
- And Alistair seems to be a boy, not a 200 years old man. If you do not actively stop him when you are careless enough to let him suck your blood, then he kills you. I don't like men who know no restraint and can't control themselves. Wouldn't even take him with an evil main character.
- Gale obviously has his own agenda. TOO friendly up front. Probably a manhunt for Shadowheart from what I've gotten out of the story so far. So I don't want to have him around. Also he eats my loot.
- Wyll just seemed uninteresting, dunno. "I'm the hero, yeah yeah. Lets do the good yeah, yeah. Also there's totally no demon involved with me, yadda yudda". And in combat he kinda sucks. But thats probably only me disliking warlocks.

Last edited by Amitaya; 26/11/20 02:02 PM.
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Originally Posted by Eldath

Yeah I have a problem with evil paladins in general. Make them a separate class and call them blackguards. That's one thing 3rd edition definitely did better.

Strictly speaking, the blackguard was something of an prestige classes of the paladin, like a arcane trickster for the rogue.
In general, there were additional rules for blackguards who had paladin levels.
And I don't really understand why you should create many classes instead of making several ordered classes with many subclasses.
By the way, due to the number of classes it does not help the balance too much.
Originally Posted by Eldath

The word "Paladin" still carries connotations of being an upstanding good person, which a tiefling is just not going to be, because that's not what they are about, for one, and for two, if they make our tiefling companion into an upstanding good person that will merely give a third exra special snowflake point at which I will just throw my hands up and murder her.

It seems to me that "oathbreaker" does not sound very heroic.
Originally Posted by Eldath

I know and I hate it.

Why?
I would understand your idea if it was about cambions, but these are tieflings. The legacy of the fiends is not so strong in them. None of the editions indicate that the tiefling will always be evil and the aasimar good.
In addition, in the history of D&D, there have been cases when originally evil creatures could be good. Remember the Fall-from-Grace from Planescape.

Last edited by BuckettMonkey; 26/11/20 02:36 PM.

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I'd like to see the progeny of the infamous Noober or Neeber be a recruitable companion. Ideally on a quest to redeem his annoying ancestor I suppose.

But seriously, some companions who are a little more toned down, in that they are not a vampire, werewolf, beholden to a demon, feed on magical items etc. I have to keep reminding myself that this is EA and Larian are probably throwing the kitchen sink at us to gauge the response.

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I guess in a more general sense its important to be able to form a fairly well balanced good AND evil party... and a good benchmark for the game probably how much flexibility you have with both...

Pet peeve of mine playing an evil character with a bunch of squares around... and the whole immersion thing...

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Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
The legacy of the fiends is not so strong in them

Well they sure look like creatures that should be slaughtered on sight to me. Sorry. If it has horns I will cut it down.

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How about a Male centaur say a Ranger with a Romance option for the ladies.....

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