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What do you think of this character?
Would you like to see more non-aggressive mind flayers with whom you can talk?

Last edited by OneManArmy; 26/11/20 05:43 PM. Reason: Spoiler

Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove!
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
What do you think of this character?
Would you like to see more non-aggressive mind flayers with whom you can talk?

I think Larian just renamed Grazilaxx from Out of the Abyss, but left his biography unchanged.
And if Blurg's race change (Oroog to Hobgoblin) can be justified by the lack of an Orc model in the game, the Grazilaxx name change seems... pointless.
And I would really like to see new non-aggressive illithids, alhoons or even illithiliches.


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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
What do you think of this character?
Would you like to see more non-aggressive mind flayers with whom you can talk?

I think the thread should be labeled as spoiler. It's not content found early or easily in the game.

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Unsure about more mind flayers specifically. Non-aggressive ones should be exceedingly rare.

But I wouldn't mind more non-violent examples of other "always hostile" races.

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I don't like the existence of this character, and feel it detracts from the thematic role of mind flayers in the setting.

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I remember hearing somewhere that Mind-Flayers perceive time backwards, they're extra-planar in origin, and had an multi-dimensional empire all and they're connected by their psychic link to hive-minds. Their whole make up is supposed to be totally alien to us, like Lovecraftian Elder Gods.
Omeluum doesn't seem to be very alien, in fact I'm surprised they didn't give him more dialogue about Mind-Flayer culture, history and physiology considering this is the first time I can remember having a conversation with one in a D&D game, though I need to replay the Underdark section in BG:2.

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I think that Omeluum's existence weakens the eldritchness of mind flayers and is disappointing for that reason.

On the other hand, I really like the guy, so... eh.

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Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
But I wouldn't mind more non-violent examples of other "always hostile" races.

Same here. It's always interesting to interact with non-aggressive characters of mostly hostile races if they are rare and done right as seems to be the case with Omeluum.


Baldur's Gate 3 Character Renders (SPOILERS)
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Im not familiar with all mind flayer lore/books... has there been ones not controlled by elder brains?

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I don't like him. I think he strengthened the tadpole on purpose. He may be a different faction of squid but all squid want domination. They just go about it differently.

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I'm mostly with firesnakearies on this one. One is an interesting exception to the rules but even one more NPC will ruin the whole Lovecraftian "too alien to be understood" vibe.

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Originally Posted by Llev
Im not familiar with all mind flayer lore/books... has there been ones not controlled by elder brains?

Mind Flayers who can use magic are usually rare and are shunned by their societies as they can use their magic to resist the Elder Brains.

"Mind flayers considered arcane magic an abomination. They viewed it as an inferior and corrupt form of psionic power that should disappear from the universe once the illithids regained control of it. It was speculated that this hatred was related to the role of magic in the gith rebellion.[2]

Arcane magic was especially sought out by renegade illithids looking for ways to shield themselves from the elder brain's influence.[2] Although most mind flayer arcanists were wizards, a few were also born with the gift of sorcery. Because a mind flayer sorcerer was naturally more intelligent than other mind flayers, it was better able to resist psionics. For the most part, an illithid with the gift of sorcery would use defensive spells such as greater invisibility and resist energy, as well as spells to further hinder enemies, such as ray of exhaustion and touch of idiocy.[4] "
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer

Last edited by xyamuchax; 26/11/20 10:33 PM.
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Originally Posted by xyamuchax
Originally Posted by Llev
Im not familiar with all mind flayer lore/books... has there been ones not controlled by elder brains?

Mind Flayers who can use magic are usually rare and are shunned by their societies as they can use their magic to resist the Elder Brains.

"Mind flayers considered arcane magic an abomination. They viewed it as an inferior and corrupt form of psionic power that should disappear from the universe once the illithids regained control of it. It was speculated that this hatred was related to the role of magic in the gith rebellion.[2]

Arcane magic was especially sought out by renegade illithids looking for ways to shield themselves from the elder brain's influence.[2] Although most mind flayer arcanists were wizards, a few were also born with the gift of sorcery. Because a mind flayer sorcerer was naturally more intelligent than other mind flayers, it was better able to resist psionics. For the most part, an illithid with the gift of sorcery would use defensive spells such as greater invisibility and resist energy, as well as spells to further hinder enemies, such as ray of exhaustion and touch of idiocy.[4] "
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer
There's a pattern in forgotten realms worldbuilding, "all x are like this" but in exceptionally rare cases forget everything we've told you about how everything works. They philosophically don't believe in saying you, the player, can't do something, that's cool, but there's a problem when all these exceptions to the rule are always in games set there even without it being the players choice.

Last edited by Sozz; 26/11/20 11:13 PM.
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"renegade illithids" sounds like a potential secret companion to the root of the Absolute, as a reward for the evil player!
To have such a character in the party is too much power and special features in dialogues, although perhaps this is nonsense?


Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove!
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
"renegade illithids" sounds like a potential secret companion to the root of the Absolute, as a gender neutral reward for the evil player!
To have such a character in the party is too much power and special features in dialogues, although perhaps this is nonsense?


Master would listen to his puppet?

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Originally Posted by Sozz
There's a pattern in forgotten realms worldbuilding, "all x are like this" but in exceptionally rare cases forget everything we've told you about how everything works. They philosophically don't believe in saying you, the player, can't do something, that's cool, but there's a problem when all these exceptions to the rule are always in games set there even without it being the players choice.


Games, as well as stories in general, tend to take place during exceptional times. Exceptional times tends to attract exceptional people.

To my knowledge there's never been a Forgotten Realms game where you're playing a halfling farmer working on a ranch in which nothing interesting happens. Statistically speaking there's probably tens of thousands of random farmers for every adventurer, but somehow every game is about adventurers.

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Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
Originally Posted by Sozz
There's a pattern in forgotten realms worldbuilding, "all x are like this" but in exceptionally rare cases forget everything we've told you about how everything works. They philosophically don't believe in saying you, the player, can't do something, that's cool, but there's a problem when all these exceptions to the rule are always in games set there even without it being the players choice.


Games, as well as stories in general, tend to take place during exceptional times. Exceptional times tends to attract exceptional people.

To my knowledge there's never been a Forgotten Realms game where you're playing a halfling farmer working on a ranch in which nothing interesting happens. Statistically speaking there's probably tens of thousands of random farmers for every adventurer, but somehow every game is about adventurers.
don't misunderstand me, I agree that the player should be allowed to break the mold, it's when breaking the mold is done in a story completely irrespective of the narrative, and the player, that it starts to no longer be an exception.

I also don't think the same exceptions that occur in the world, even rarely, can even apply to some of the races so remote to the 'human' experience, Drow are all descended from top side elves, so when one of them has a crisis of faith it's still more understandable than the completely foreign and unintelligible motives of the Illithid

EDIT: and halfling farmer sim sounds rad....

Last edited by Sozz; 26/11/20 11:52 PM. Reason: ilithids are not humanoid
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Yes, I agree with @Sozz, the PC is often an exception to rule but it's a problem when you have so many exceptions in front of your eyes that you can no longer see rule. BG2 did this well by introducing us to drow society before revealing that Soulefin was a mold breaker.

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I find it tiresome that we must have representation for the "good" exceptions of all the evil races. It's okay for the illithids to be mysterious evil shady bastards, that's their whole appeal. By humanizing them you basically dispel their mystique, and yes, by turning him into this helpful creature you did just that even if he had an interest in observing you.
Good specimens of an evil species are so rare that you are supposed to be able to rest easy about killing them without a second thought.

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Originally Posted by Sozz
don't misunderstand me, I agree that the player should be allowed to break the mold, it's when breaking the mold is done in a story completely irrespective of the narrative, and the player, that it starts to no longer be an exception.

I also don't think the same exceptions that occur in the world, even rarely, can even apply to some of the races so remote to the 'human' experience, Drow are all descended from top side elves, so when one of them has a crisis of faith it's still more understandable than the completely foreign and unintelligible motives of the Illithid

EDIT: and halfling farmer sim sounds rad....


I disagree. If I go outside now and happen to see an elephant it doesn't mean elephants are common in North America. It just means I happened to see a rare occurrence. So long as the narrative acknowledges it as a rare occurrence that is how it should be treated. A single helpful Illithid found in the Underdark does not mean helpful illithids aren't rare anymore. It just means you witnessed something unusual.

Beyond that if you were going to run into a mind flayer not aligned with the colonies the Underdark is a very loreful place to find him. The Underdark has a fairly massive mind flayer population, and renegade mind flayers are a thing that can and does happen. They also tend to learn arcane magic to help shield their minds from falling under the sway of an Elder Brain again, and this one just so happens to have joined what seems to be an organization of wizards.

There is nothing about Omeluum that is especially lore breaking or entirely unique. Just rare. And the location and conditions we find him in are pretty typical for a mind flayer in his position.

I'd also like to throw out that him helping us doesn't necessarily make him good. We're basically allowing him to run experiments on us, so it isn't like he's doing this purely out of kindness.

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