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Hopefully, this patch puts an end to all the negativity about them not listening to feedback because there are a lot of FANTASTIC changes that are obviously based on feedback.

No, they didn't address everything some of YOU individually wanted and never will, but I am very happy about many of the changes.

Some I question..."Melee Sneak Attack now requires a finesse weapon." So you cant make a STR based rogue?

Yes, many of you are still gonna have major complaints, but please tell me we can agree that this is a big, positive step.

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You must be new to the internet if you think people are gonna ever stop complaining.

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Yeah, no big changes, but overall shows some promise.

Originally Posted by RumRunner151
So you cant make a STR based rogue?


Of course you can. You can use finesse with STR bonus if it's higher. Or you can use heavy weapon for first attack and then two offhand attacks cheese. Still won't apply Sneak Attack, but the damage is equivalent or bigger (at this level of course, later SA gets more) due to trivial bugs that haven't been fixed yet in this patch.

Last edited by mg666; 02/12/20 07:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by mg666
Yeah, no big changes, but overall shows some promise.

Originally Posted by RumRunner151
So you cant make a STR based rogue?


Of course you can. You can use finesse with STR bonus if it's higher. Or you can use heavy weapon for first attack and then two offhand attacks cheese. Still won't apply Sneak Attack, but the damage is equivalent or bigger (at this level of course, later SA gets more) due to trivial bugs that haven't been fixed yet in this patch.


I looked up the rules on Sneak Attack. "The Attack must use a Finesse or a ranged weapon." So its inline w/ 5e which many people will like. Rip STR rogue build. Oh well.

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Why does that mean RIP strength rogue? Just use a finesse weapon. Finesse doesn't mean you can't use strength.

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Well, 5e rules do state that you must use a ranged or finesse weapon to qualify for sneak attack... but they also state that you may use either strength or dexterity for your attack/damage roll with a finesse weapon. So you could still make a rogue with a high strength and low dexterity, but you would not be able to use non-finesse weapons and sneak attack at the same time. Not sure what the use case for this would be, but its not impossible.

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Added an option to hide your helmet in the equipment screen.

yesssssssssss

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Hopefully, this patch puts an end to all the negativity about them not listening to feedback because there are a lot of FANTASTIC changes that are obviously based on feedback.
...
Yes, many of you are still gonna have major complaints, but please tell me we can agree that this is a big, positive step.

I was waiting for this post :P
I agree with you on this and am very happy that Larian has made such significant and welcome changes (surfaces, companion disapproval, pacifist exp), some of which were big topics on these forums.

In addition, they gave us a timeline for patch 4 ("expect patch 4 after the holidays"), which addresses the other big criticism: their lack of communication.
Hopefully they will continue this level of communication, and in the ~first week of January they will give us more details on a specific date (or maybe even drop the patch!). Even something as vague as "we should have it out by the end of January" would be good.

However, I still think that communication prior to this patch was poor enough that the negativity was justified, but if Larian continues with this level of response to feedback/giving timelines of patches, then I will be happy.

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I totally agree with no strength based rouges from a balance and flavor standpoint.

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Originally Posted by dwig
You must be new to the internet if you think people are gonna ever stop complaining.


Actually, complaining about complaining and responding to negativity with negativity is his shtick.

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Really impressed that they made some substantial changes.

If Larian removed surfaces from cantrips, they are willing to change anything in the game.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by dwig
You must be new to the internet if you think people are gonna ever stop complaining.


Actually, complaining about complaining and responding to negativity with negativity is his shtick.


Was about to say this. Almost(?) every post by the OP I see is a (passive-)aggressive comment directed at people criticizing Larian/BG3, be the criticisms constructive or douche-y.

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THEY LISTEN!

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Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
Really impressed that they made some substantial changes.

If Larian removed surfaces from cantrips, they are willing to change anything in the game.


The change itself ( amount of work they needed to do ) was not so substantial, but the effect on gameplay certainly is.

Even better that Larian recognised the need to reward progress that is not based on killing everything.

I've always felt that, Ideally, advancement in videogames should be based around improvements in the skills and abilities you actually use, rather than abstract choose-a-random-upgrade. The original DnD versions justified abstract levelling by saying it was supposed to take several months of training to achieve your new abilities; but that's not really going to work in a videogame like BG3 smile

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They're literally one of the very few gaming companies that actually care about the feedback they receive and work with it!!!

I think a few people (including myself) need to learn to have patience and remember that this is a game that is in its early stages of release and many of us dont know the process of game making!

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Originally Posted by A Clown
I think a few people (including myself) need to learn to have patience and remember that this is a game that is in its early stages of release and many of us dont know the process of game making!


It's not just about patience. I can be patient, I understand developing a huge game is no piece of cake, but to be patient I need to know that changes are actually coming and feedback is being seriously considered. This patch is a good sign and can ease up some worries. Now we need to see how far they're willing to go with this - some of the improvements I consider the most important would require a certain degree of decisiveness (/breaking status quo) and/or substantial workload.

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Originally Posted by mg666
Yeah, no big changes, but overall shows some promise.

Originally Posted by RumRunner151
So you cant make a STR based rogue?


Of course you can. You can use finesse with STR bonus if it's higher. Or you can use heavy weapon for first attack and then two offhand attacks cheese. Still won't apply Sneak Attack, but the damage is equivalent or bigger (at this level of course, later SA gets more) due to trivial bugs that haven't been fixed yet in this patch.


I looked up the rules on Sneak Attack. "The Attack must use a Finesse or a ranged weapon." So its inline w/ 5e which many people will like. Rip STR rogue build. Oh well.


You don't understand how finesse weapons work. They use whichever bonus is higher, whether it is DEX or STR. See SRD entry:

Finesse. When making an attack with a finesse weapon, you use your choice of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls. You must use the same modifier for both rolls.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Actually, complaining about complaining and responding to negativity with negativity is his shtick.

Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Was about to say this. Almost(?) every post by the OP I see is a (passive-)aggressive comment directed at people criticizing Larian/BG3, be the criticisms constructive or douche-y.

And you both see what you want to see because that is ridiculously far from the truth, but the patch has put me in too good of a mood to take your bait.


Originally Posted by SacredWitness
Why does that mean RIP strength rogue? Just use a finesse weapon. Finesse doesn't mean you can't use strength.

Because the point of STR rogue was to dual wield awesome weapons like Shattered Flail and Dragons' Grasp which are not finessed while getting sneak attacks. There are no awesome finesse weapons (yet?).

Originally Posted by Osprey39

You don't understand how finesse weapons work. They use whichever bonus is higher, whether it is DEX or STR. See SRD entry:

Finesse. When making an attack with a finesse weapon, you use your choice of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls. You must use the same modifier for both rolls.

I think it's you that is not understanding, see above.

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Actually, complaining about complaining and responding to negativity with negativity is his shtick.

Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Was about to say this. Almost(?) every post by the OP I see is a (passive-)aggressive comment directed at people criticizing Larian/BG3, be the criticisms constructive or douche-y.

And you both see what you want to see because that is ridiculously far from the truth, but the patch has put me in too good of a mood to take the bait.


They're absolutely right in their characterization of you though. You're more childish and indignant than the strawman you built up in your head. Aside from leaving the house more maybe, you'd do just as well with a "humble pie" yourself

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Originally Posted by SacredWitness
Why does that mean RIP strength rogue? Just use a finesse weapon. Finesse doesn't mean you can't use strength.

Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Because the point of STR rogue was to dual wield awesome weapons like Shattered Flail and Dragons' Grasp which are not finessed while getting sneak attacks. There are no awesome finesse weapons (yet?).


Well you tried to play a rogue as a warrior with free damage bonus, that was a bug and it was fixed. Now you can properly play a STR Rogue. What you mentioned was not 5e also. I think other posters thought you said "STR rogue according to 5e" but you actually said "STR rogue according to RumRunner151"


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