Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 6 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Nov 2020
Location: Menzoberranzan
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2020
Location: Menzoberranzan
Originally Posted by Innateagle
I can see that for SH and Lae'zel, but not for, say, Wyll. Or at least it's not done in a good way. We're knee-deep in his quest 5 minutes after meeting him. As a sidenote, that also kind of hurts the couple talks where they hint he's not actually that big of a hero, or when a warlock can call him out. It's foreshadowing for its own sake, for stuff that we'll get to know within a hour's time. Again, compare with Alistair and Duncan (and Cailan!!). That's foreshadowing done well in my opinion, that on replays make you go 'oh!'.

I guess maybe it's a byproduct of the Origin's system, that we get to know a lot all at once, but meh.


It's worth to remember we don't know everything yet. They may sometimes lie or not tell us the whole truth. Or they may just not know everything about themselves. For example, I suspect Astarion isn't just a poor innocent vampire victim, and that he tells only this part of truth which makes the player feel sorry for him. It might be similar with Wyll. Maybe in the turning-point MC will discover that he is in fact a Hell's prince or something? Silly example, but I think you know what I mean. Act 1 is the exposition. We have to know origins' backstories to play with them later. It feels quite fresh to get these info in the first part of the game, because it means the writers has so interesting plans for their characters, they had to inform us about their past early.

Last edited by Phea; 06/12/20 08:49 PM.
Joined: Nov 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Zellin
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by Zellin
Originally Posted by Innateagle
The journey from zero to hero was one of the coolest aspects of BG1 and 2, yeah. I do like playing more experienced characters, though, and i'd say 'Tav' lends itself very much to that.

At the same time, though, i'd say the problem isn't really that the companions' backstories are too large, it's just that we're not eased into them. Look at the aforementioned Dragon Age:Origins, Alistair, Morrigan, Zevran all have pretty extensive backgrounds, but we're not just dumped into them right after leaving Ostagar. Compare with Wyll and, especially, Gale, in my opinion the most badly done by this point of view. They just unload everything in Act 1, after a short time that feels like a short time, and that left me a bit perplexed. (Again, especially Gale. I get he has attachment issues, but geez)

If Larian isn't out of their own habits, what they unloaded at the moment is far away from everything. They had it same way in D:OS2, where you would feel like you got to know the whole problem of your companion at the Act 1, but for real there are plot twists and new revelations ahead.


I can see that for SH and Lae'zel, but not for, say, Wyll. Or at least it's not done in a good way. We're knee-deep in his quest 5 minutes after meeting him. As a sidenote, that also kind of hurts the couple talks where they hint he's not actually that big of a hero, or when a warlock can call him out. It's foreshadowing for its own sake, for stuff that we'll get to know within a hour's time. Again, compare with Alistair and Duncan (and Cailan!!). That's foreshadowing done well in my opinion, that on replays make you go 'oh!'.

I guess maybe it's a byproduct of the Origin's system, that we get to know a lot all at once, but meh.

This whole Wyll's quest can be nothing more than a first stage of his quest. Like find Mizora and find out... something, I can come up with a few possible things from not that exciting to making Wyll's whole life much more complicated. Same with Gale, there is even some speculations already that he's actually lying to us and his whole situation with Mystra was quite different from what he says.
Foreshadowing is a problem for sure. Would be great if they would make a trick similar to the one they did with Astarion, who get's his vampiric attack only after his confession. With Wylls backstory he could pretend to be a rogue or a dex-fighter for a while.


I mean, Astarion's got white hair, red eyes and fangs hahaha I see your point, though.

As for Wyll, sure. My point though is that there's too much going on for it to be the first act. That maybe we'll learn more later on is another can of worms. Right now, Wyll is the one i care the least about because we're given so much about him in such a short time that i couldn't assimilate any of it, so despite the concept of his character intriguing me the execution just made me go 'okay'.

Again, as an Origin it probably works pretty well, as a companion not so much.

Originally Posted by Phea


It's worth to remember we don't know everything yet. They may sometimes lie or not tell us the whole truth. Or they may just not know everything about themselves. For example, I suspect Astarion isn't just a poor innocent vampire victim, and that he tells only this part of truth which makes the player feel sorry for him. It might be similar with Wyll. Maybe in the turning-point MC will discover that he is in fact a Hell's prince or something? Silly example, but I think you know what I mean. Act 1 is the exposition. We have to know origins' backstories to play with them later. It feels quite fresh to get these info in the first part of the game, because it means the writers has so interesting plans for their characters, they had to inform us about their past early.


I didn't really touch upon Astarion because from what i've seen i don't think he's got Gale and Wyll's issue (and becuase i haven't seen all that much tbh, since i never really got anything other than his most basic dialogues).

Joined: Nov 2020
Location: void
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Location: void
Originally Posted by Innateagle

As for Wyll, sure. My point though is that there's too much going on for it to be the first act. That maybe we'll learn more later on is another can of worms. Right now, Wyll is the one i care the least about because we're given so much about him in such a short time that i couldn't assimilate any of it, so despite the concept of his character intriguing me the execution just made me go 'okay'.

Again, as an Origin it probably works pretty well, as a companion not so much.


I have the impression that the most interesting thing about him is Mizora. Most boring origin companion so far.

Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by Phea


It's worth to remember we don't know everything yet. They may sometimes lie or not tell us the whole truth. Or they may just not know everything about themselves. For example, I suspect Astarion isn't just a poor innocent vampire victim, and that he tells only this part of truth which makes the player feel sorry for him. It might be similar with Wyll. Maybe in the turning-point MC will discover that he is in fact a Hell's prince or something? Silly example, but I think you know what I mean. Act 1 is the exposition. We have to know origins' backstories to play with them later. It feels quite fresh to get these info in the first part of the game, because it means the writers has so interesting plans for their characters, they had to inform us about their past early.


I didn't really touch upon Astarion because from what i've seen i don't think he's got Gale and Wyll's issue (and becuase i haven't seen all that much tbh, since i never really got anything other than his most basic dialogues).


About Astarion's background
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...arions_background_retcon_or_extra_depth/

Joined: Nov 2020
Location: Menzoberranzan
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2020
Location: Menzoberranzan
Originally Posted by Verte

I know, I know wink But I've also hard rumors his backstory could have changed in the meantime and his writer says nothing is set in stone until the full game release.

Originally Posted by Innateagle

I didn't really touch upon Astarion because from what i've seen i don't think he's got Gale and Wyll's issue (and becuase i haven't seen all that much tbh, since i never really got anything other than his most basic dialogues).


The more a companion likes you, the more he tells you. I, for example, don't know much about Shadowheart because I always failed persuasion tests. Maybe you feel you know too many things about Gale and Wyll, because they trusted you.

Last edited by Phea; 06/12/20 09:11 PM.
Joined: Nov 2020
Location: void
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Location: void
Originally Posted by Phea

I know, I know wink But I've also hard rumors his backstory could have changed in the meantime and his writer says nothing is set in stone until the full game release.


It would be funny if his story somehow connects with Wyll's (infernal tattoo).

Joined: Nov 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Phea
Originally Posted by Verte

I know, I know wink But I've also hard rumors his backstory could have changed in the meantime and his writer says nothing is set in stone until the full game release.

Originally Posted by Innateagle

I didn't really touch upon Astarion because from what i've seen i don't think he's got Gale and Wyll's issue (and becuase i haven't seen all that much tbh, since i never really got anything other than his most basic dialogues).


The more a companion likes you, the more he tells you. I, for example, don't know much about Shadowheart because I always failed persuasion tests. Maybe you feel you know too many things about Gale and Wyll, because they trusted you.


I already talked about it but i don't think that's it. It is kinda funny that some of them can go up even to high in the 1st part of the 1st act, which is described as them trusting you completely.

Joined: Sep 2017
G
member
Offline
member
G
Joined: Sep 2017
Originally Posted by biomag
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by guy
As you said, you think it is better to compare it to DOS than BG 1 or 2.

That, specifically, is a problem for me. I am here to play BG, not DOS.


Was about to say that. This is a huge problem. The game appears as if it was D:OS that tries to be DA. Set in Faerun and with 5e rules. And titled BG3 for some reason. Location and some story links aren't enough.



Yup. That's my perception of the game as well. I would just add that it fails in trying to be DA, but that's about it.

The more time I've spent with BG3 the bigger the disappointment became. At first I bought into the classes and 5e surface, but the feeling of the game has nothing to do with BG. Even the 5e ruleset that is in there in huge parts gets watered down in the most obvious and significant parts to see the DOS mentality underneath everything (not talking about UI and some old engine related quirks, I don't care about these placeholders one bit). Honestly I after DOS2 I would never had both any other DOS-game for full price, even less wasted time on a EA. I was expecting a BG3 game as they kept harping about how much they care about making it a 5e experience.

Sadly they have also completely failed making the characters feel like D&D characters. With storys far bigger than their level, enemies that should be far too potent for level 1 characters, arch druids on level 5,.... non of these would bother me in a different type of game. I actually prefer games that don't use a level mechanic like D&D. But in D&D its different. Levels are not mentioned in the story, but you simply feel them in everything. BG3 has none of it. They are meaningless beyond gameplay itself and it feels off. A party of 4 level 4 characters killing a beholder? Really?

And this negligence in design is too obvious when you look at your origin characters. There is no elegance in their writting or background story. Even the tadpole as explenation for them not having their full powers is grotesque lazy. Do I need a party of 4 Eders? No, but at the same time I am a 100% the BG3 team couldn't pull of even one. For all the shit I might give PoE, they had fitting companions - non too big, slowly growing to the challenges, giving insights into the world with their own background, never overwhelming the player character. A good character is more often than not memorable because of their behavior and quirks, not the big special background story. Also all Larian characters being the actual main characters it leaves no room for a custom character.

Now if the game was just about origin characters and the custom character was advertised as second thought/additional opion I would be fine with it. If that's the game they want to create, I won't object. But they didn't and instead assured us that the custom character is important and will be a full experience. They are not and the game overall is not was they said it would be. At least to me, so feel free to disagree.


Writing is always Larian's weakest point. Even the connection of DOS1 to DOS2 doesn't really make sense with the Sourcerer thing.

And the way they did the end of DOS2 Nameless Island and Arx was so rushed. Even when they tried to "fix" it for Definitive Edition, the closure just still isn't right. The story was always the weakest part of the game and the fact they tried to link it to DOS1 but retcon it was confusing.

They don't specialize in good writing and a good story, which also makes the investment in Origins frustrating.

Page 6 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5