Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 11 1 2 8 9 10 11
Joined: Oct 2020
L
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
L
Joined: Oct 2020
I just want my Elves to look like Elves.

Not a Critique of LOTR, but those ... those aren't really Elves in my books. Sure, best examples around and are the 'parents' of the DnD type. But I'd like my pointier, slender, alien Elves please.

Also, what's with Lolth and non-Lolth Elves having different face presets? Fix that!

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Telephasic
I will admit however that I have not liked the trend in modern fantasy (both games and movies/TV) to just pepper people of color around without really any context/explanation. The modern era - with people of very different looks all jumbled together - is a historical aberration. Traditionally speaking if a society is not racist, people intermix freely with one another, and in a few generations everybody looks pretty much the same again.


It's one of those examples of when people (mostly white Americans) want to "combat" racism by counter-intuitive enforcing real life American norms that only came to be in real life because of historically unusually extreme racism and xenophobia. It's pretty much a "separate but equal" fantasy that white Americans want to enjoy.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Jul 2009
I
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
I
Joined: Jul 2009
Originally Posted by Dexai
Originally Posted by Telephasic
I will admit however that I have not liked the trend in modern fantasy (both games and movies/TV) to just pepper people of color around without really any context/explanation. The modern era - with people of very different looks all jumbled together - is a historical aberration. Traditionally speaking if a society is not racist, people intermix freely with one another, and in a few generations everybody looks pretty much the same again.


It's one of those examples of when people (mostly white Americans) want to "combat" racism by counter-intuitive enforcing real life American norms that only came to be in real life because of historically unusually extreme racism and xenophobia. It's pretty much a "separate but equal" fantasy that white Americans want to enjoy.

"There are not enough black people in a 15th century Bohemian backwater area!!!" (actual criticism of Kingdom Come Deliverance).

Last edited by Ixal; 07/12/20 04:49 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
I'll never play an elf until they can have beards, I can tell you that much.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by pinklily
Honestly, I feel like there's a dangerous level of gatekeeping going on here. Saying people should just not play a race or engage with a property just because they disagree with certain elements/would like those elements changed to incorporate more people is cruel. It is essentially saying, on some level, that they don't belong--which is the harmful psychological impact to which OP referred to in the initial post. Again, properties evolve. D&D was created in the 70s for a predominantly Caucasian demographic and its art reflected that. As the audience grows, there's nothing wrong with the content adapting to be more inclusive. The arguments and reference images I see for "elves should be angular and look different from humans" still look human with Caucasian features. I'm sure we've all seen people who are more angular than average. Even with this angular aesthetic preserved, there's no reason the finer features cannot reflect a greater variety of human ethnicities. (Of course, I think players should have as much freedom as they want with a character creator and should not be locked into a particular aesthetic.)

Also, design fidelity should not be conflated with narrative fidelity. Artwork and creature design for franchises can vary greatly with different iterations. Take Klingons from Star Trek, for example. Their appearance has changed in every new series they have been featured in. Iconic features like their forehead ridges were not introduced until the movies, their commonly recognized look was not formed until Next Generation and they even got a redesign for Discovery. These changes had no impact on narrative and did not have much of an impact on the franchise on a whole other than making Klingons look more iconic and less like a harmful stereotype.

Lore is not incontrovertible truth. It can and does evolve over time.



This is better than any of my posts in this thread. Well done! Thank you.

100% agree.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Sharp
Ergh, why is it that people who argue against the changing of existing media to better represent underrepresented individuals almost always do such a poor job of doing so.

First off, some context about me, because I feel that in this case it is relevant to the discussion. I am South African. I can assure you, 90% or more of the things you may have assumed about me prior to reading this post are probably incorrect and I can also assure you that I am not well represented in online media at all and it would be nice if that was at some point changed. With that being said, there are 2 ways to improve representation. The first is to take an existing piece of media and change it to represent a different group of people and the second is to create new media to represent those groups.

Now, when it comes to D&D, I personally do not care if the entirety of the lore was thrown out and rewritten, I do not think it is particularly good to begin with and I do believe it could be much better than it currently is. I will still however defend the people who want to preserve the lore as is, even if I do not care about it myself. Why is that? Because when the integrity of a piece is important to someone, by changing it you are "killing" a part of that world to them. It is the same as when an adaptation of a book into film is done poorly, it takes the image of the universe that individuals who care about that universe see in their head, throws it out and replaces it with something inferior. In the case of iconic figures being changed, it is taking away a "hero" from one group and giving it to another, which is essentially taking away representation from one group to give it to someone else. I think its pretty obvious there why people are upset, because icons they relate to are having that relation removed. When it comes to changing the appearance of a fantasy race to be more representative, the same thing is happening. The very identity of the race is being eroded.

Does this mean I am against better representing people in media? No! Absolutely not. But I am against the changing of existing established identities to do so. There is the alternative, creating new media to represent people. Not only does this have the advantage of not eroding existing identities, but it also creates a richer universe, featuring more than the universe that came before. New races can be created, new heroes can be added, new cultures can be inserted and the fictional universe would be better off with all of that. So with all of that being said, I will defend maintaining the lore appearance of elves in the Forgotten Realms, even if I think the lore is bad, because if you aren't willing to defend the settings other people care about when people try to change them, then you cannot expect other people to come and defend the fictional universes you do care about if the same thing happens :P

With all of that being said, the elves in BG 3 are decidedly not elven enough and should be further modified to better represent their in lore appearance :P



Glad to see you in this thread, I got excited when I saw you'd posted. I was like, 'Yeah! Sharp's here to lay down the law!" Was a bit surprised when you ultimately came down on the side of keeping elves "pure" so to speak. Not that your argument isn't good. Of course, it is impeccable as always.

I guess I just don't care much about defending the sanctity of a made-up universe that ultimately only exists as a platform for entertainment. I've watched the lore for D&D change so much over the years, I consider it more of a fluid than a solid. However they change it, I still think it's cool. I can still have fun playing D&D, whether devils come from the lower planes or from the Astral Sea, whether gnolls are just some normal animal dudes who live on the plains or the demonic spawn of Yeenoghu.

What I care about more than lore consistency is the right of creators to change their IP however they wish. I want the Forgotten Realms to reflect whatever the current minds behind D&D think is the best for right now, instead of just clinging to old ideas. I want the people who are currently making content for a setting to be free to make whatever alterations they need to in order to tell good stories today, without the fandom losing its shit over minor details.

Even more important to me than that, however, is that these entertainment properties that we all enjoy are serving their audiences well. All of their audiences. Not just some of them. And that they're telling stories that serve the world well, telling them in ways that make the world better, rather than worse. And inclusivity is really important at this turning point in our history. But it's not even about the abstract "social issue" of diversity or the "prevailing politics" and trying to appease some agenda. It's about people like Saturdiva and their personal, heartfelt desires which have been ignored for so long. And even when she asks, nicely, sincerely, for something that is long overdue, no one hears her. They just come in to debate the "topic", to go on and on about how important The Lore™ is, but I don't see anyone actually responding to what she wrote. I don't see anyone acknowledging that they even heard her.


Originally Posted by Saturdiva

It's just the fact that growing up a brown geek girl, I didn't get to see many heroes who looked like me. I felt lucky if I got to see a female protagonist in the books, movies, and TV shows I was interested in.

It's weird not to see yourself reflected anywhere.

-

This quote resonated with me so hard; as a weird kid from a messed up home who listened to weird music and was into weird things, it made me even weirder that I was brown. The stories I escaped in were almost always about kids like me -- isolated, broken, difficult homes, different than others, but they ended up being special in some way. They ended up finding magic in some way. They ended up escaping and growing and becoming magic themselves in some way.

They were always white.

-

Sometimes it feels hard to explain why this matters to people who haven't experienced it. When you've lived your whole life in a world where the heroes look like you, talk like you (or like your ancestors), sound like you, have similar cultural experiences to you, most likely, you've never considered what it might be like to live in the absence of those heroes. And that's natural; that's normal.

-

Elves, in general, have always been a source of fascination to me. There are so many interpretations of them across so many texts and media, but one consistent theme is that they're these immortal, otherworldly, almost transcendent beings, made of magic, light of hand and foot, graceful, dexterous, with something elegant to them no matter how roguish or Drow-ish. At least, that's how they live in my imagination.

So rarely do people of color get to see themselves in such elegant roles.

I love playing elves -- I play other races, too, but elves are usually near the top of the list in terms of order.

So it's kind of disappointing and disheartening to see that it's not possible to play a female elf whose face isn't a reflection of Caucasian standards of beauty / Caucasian features, but rather shows someone who looks a little more like me -- Latinx, North African, a mix of ingredients that don't reflect the thin, petite noses and wide, round eyes of white female beauty, but rather a different kind of beauty... one just as capable of elven grace and dexterity and mastery of magic.

There are some gorgeous, diverse faces across the other races available for play, but those faces are not available for a female elf of any kind -- or even a half-elf. And that's really, really disappointing -- and I'm not sure why it is. Why can Tieflings, humans, dwarves, and halflings have features that resemble those of other races, but not elves?



If she feels this way, others feel this way. How many others? I couldn't say. But does it matter? Is there some arbitrary number, some specific amount of people who feel this way which would then make it valid? Which would then make them heard?

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by pinklily

While I agree with part of your argument I don't necessarily think it applies to making elves more inclusive. This is a minor aesthetic change--not an alteration to their core concepts. Allowing them to have a greater range of features does not take anything away from people who view them as predominantly Caucasian. If elves belonged to one group, expanding it to others just means they have to share, as opposed to having it taken away from them entirely. No one is asking for more diversity to the exclusion of Caucasian features.

And D&D changes its existing, established identities with every new version of the game and updated source book. Just look at the tieflings. This isn't a inflexible franchise to begin with.

I also don't think creating new media is the answer to this problem, given how huge a property D&D is. Larian's answer to D&D is DOS and, personally, I couldn't really get into that world. I enjoy the world of D&D and in actual table top games we have the freedom to make our characters however we want. The line of thinking "If you don't like this one thing then maybe you should go elsewhere" is the exact kind of gatekeeping that I find so insidious, because it invalidates the feelings of people who otherwise DO love the world. (Btw, I don't think that's your intention--I'm referring to other posts and how others may use this logic to disregard the feelings of marginalized people.) Given that D&D IS a franchise that changes over time, clinging to certain aesthetic values while going along with other changes points to peoples' anxieties outside the game rather than a devotion to the immutability of the lore.



Another great post. I (quite literally) couldn't have said it better myself. I agree with all of this. The last sentence is especially on point.

Joined: Jul 2014
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
A good roleplayer don't expect a setting to adapt to him instead design a character whitin the setting. Pretending to change and destroy extabilished lore in a setting for the sake of inclusivity at all costs ruins a setting.
I am sorry i keep repeating myself but.

Elves in Forgotten realms are pretty well described. They are part of that setting. Pretending them to become humans with pointy ears harm the setting therefore not only detstroy the unique race they represent but is also a split in the face to who created the setting.

A thing is a base manual of D&D and using that one can craft his world and his setting where elves can be however they want. Another is expecting a setting to morph and trow away extabilished lore for the sake of nothing. ((is also why the 4th edition failed so miserabily))

I will always be for artistic integrity first. If a player comes to me and say: I want to play in a forgotten realms but i want my elf to be this and that not reflecting the source material.

I will answer: Then we have another option here we play on a homebrew setting.

The setting is important for roleplay is the base of a believeable world and also the base of Roleplay. If you ignore the setting then you don't know how to roleplay

Instead of crushing the Extabilished Lore. DO create new one not touching what is already there. That is the best solution.



Last edited by Rieline; 07/12/20 09:32 PM.
Joined: Oct 2017
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2017
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

I guess I just don't care much about defending the sanctity of a made-up universe that ultimately only exists as a platform for entertainment. I've watched the lore for D&D change so much over the years, I consider it more of a fluid than a solid. However they change it, I still think it's cool. I can still have fun playing D&D, whether devils come from the lower planes or from the Astral Sea, whether gnolls are just some normal animal dudes who live on the plains or the demonic spawn of Yeenoghu.



Of course, over time fictional universes change. This is to be expected. There is a difference between the natural evolution of a setting due to the passing of time and a deliberate change made in order to move towards a specific end goal. The latter is much closer to the concept of erasure, which (usually) refers to the replacement or whitewashing of a minority character or group with the dominant group. Sure, it might, "just be entertainment," but we all know that it isn't, "just entertainment," because if it was only entertainment, it wouldn't have evoked such a strong reaction in the OP in the first place. If you can understand how a marginalized group could be upset by not being represented, then its also possible to understand how a not marginal group could be upset due to having something that they potentially feel is theirs being rewritten.

Originally Posted by Firesnakearies


What I care about more than lore consistency is the right of creators to change their IP however they wish. I want the Forgotten Realms to reflect whatever the current minds behind D&D think is the best for right now, instead of just clinging to old ideas.

As I said in my post, I don't particularly care what they do with the setting, because I don't think its a good one :P With that being said, I hate the retconning of aspects of lore in the settings that I do care about, so I will usually take the side which stands against retconning, even if I find many of their arguments to be distasteful. However, it is possible to expand the lore of a setting, without erasing or replacing parts of it entirely. The forgotten realms are huge, there is plenty of space to introduce a new race or subrace, to allow for a better representation of minority groups, without taking away anything from anywhere else.

There are obviously things which can be done without changing the identity of a race, for example, allowing any hairstyle on (almost) any race. I say almost there because I am pretty sure that if you had horns like a tiefling, some of your hairstyles would be incompatible with other races, but they are the exception and not the norm. Things like changing the structures of the face of a race however, or its cultural background, would be undermining what that race is to begin with.

Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

I want the people who are currently making content for a setting to be free to make whatever alterations they need to in order to tell good stories today, without the fandom losing its shit over minor details.

Minor nitpick here, but I personally believe that the truly great stories are stories which are timeless and can be told in any era. A literary masterpiece isn't something that suddenly "goes out of fashion," because it tells a story which is universal, but I do get what you mean. The forgotten realms is not however, one of those settings that qualifies as a literary masterpiece.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

Even more important to me than that, however, is that these entertainment properties that we all enjoy are serving their audiences well. All of their audiences. Not just some of them. And that they're telling stories that serve the world well, telling them in ways that make the world better, rather than worse. And inclusivity is really important at this turning point in our history. But it's not even about the abstract "social issue" of diversity or the "prevailing politics" and trying to appease some agenda. It's about people like Saturdiva and their personal, heartfelt desires which have been ignored for so long. And even when she asks, nicely, sincerely, for something that is long overdue, no one hears her. They just come in to debate the "topic", to go on and on about how important The Lore™ is, but I don't see anyone actually responding to what she wrote. I don't see anyone acknowledging that they even heard her.


It is important to me as well and I do believe I even addressed her post (although I did not directly quote it in my response). It is just that I don't believe representation in a fictional universe is a zero sum game. You do not need to take representation away from one group, in order to allocate it to another. There is always room to expand the setting and in doing so, you can elevate the setting in the process. Whereas, if you are retroactively rewriting the history of parts of the setting, you are almost always going to be making the setting weaker overall and step on peoples' toes in the process.

Last edited by Sharp; 07/12/20 09:55 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Sharp
I personally believe that the truly great stories are stories which are timeless and can be told in any era. A literary masterpiece isn't something that suddenly "goes out of fashion," because it tells a story which is universal.




This is a good point, I can't argue with that.

Joined: Nov 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2020
I wish there were ways to send hearts to certain comments in here!!! Loads of yall are really making amazing points I just wanna <3 kiss kiss kiss <3

Joined: Nov 2020
Banned
Offline
Banned
Joined: Nov 2020
I miss the good old times when fantasy was not politicized.
And when Elves, which are a northern fantasy creature, would look like "Northern people" aka "Caucasian".
Which I am very grateful to see in Baldurs Gate 3 still being the case.

Elves are "Human like" but they are not Humans!
They are "Spirits" made flesh more than we as Humans should ever be.
Which means they also would not evolve to different climates -> and the "African, Asian, Caucasian" facial features etc. -> are just evolution trying to adapt the overall "Human archetype" to different climates.


But Elves are not Humans. And as in Forgotten Realms lore stated, they have Fae-heritage, a spiritual heritage from another dimension.
I doubt that a heritage so strong that it still goes strong even in a time of being exposed to a different material plane over generations, would be a weak one that succumbs to physical evolution to that plane.
" But why do they look like 'Caucasian' then? "
^
Becauce CAUCASIAN PEOPLE CAME UP WITH THEM.
Get used to it. Maybe a Half-Elf can have another heritage look, but no a full Elf.
That would be just wierd. And disrespectful to the original.


We all know this stereotype Alien called the "Gray" right?
This wierd bubblehead like dude with pitchblack eyes and a thin body?
Guess what this Alien is supposed to look like that.
What good would it do to give him another look and still call him a Gray?

" I find this offensive. "
[Linked Image]
Stfu Jiren, nobody takes Dragonball's universe(ses) that seriously anyways.


But Baldurs Gate 3 is supposed to be a pure work from before all that political bullsh°° began.

I feel very antanogized, demonized and stigmatized by the current climate, for being a "white" person.
What is anyone gonna da about this huh?
Oh yeah that is not important huh? Cause I am white!
And I just have to shut up and take it or I the hail of battle terms will rip me to pieces, right?


Some time in the last years I heard a wierd term being uttered by the "progressives" of our time. It was called "cultural appropriation".
But of course it was just another way to somehow protrait white people as mean, racist and all kinds of things.

Elves being "Caucasian" in their appearance, is actual culturally appropriate.
Since this is how they always where. At least the fullblooded Elves.
As I said Half-Elves - who knows?

But I really grow sick and tired of seeing "my culture" and "my beloved fantasy" being invaded because some other white people are pressured and bullied into doing all this wierd, submissive and kinda "enslaved" things, or otherwise they are called all kinds of evil things.
And maybe they get cancelled even since they dared not to "take a knee" to this disgusting hate filled bias against them "even though they are white".
It is wierd how everyone likes "white cultures" and "white fantasy", but the whites in it are soooooo racist and evil.
No they are not.


There are no Tieflings in our real world.
But currently as a white person, I feel like the Tiefling with the shamed and loathed heritage of our real world.
It felt pretty good to help them out in the Grove.

Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Duchess of Gorgombert
Online Sleepy
Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Closed for review.

Edit: reviewed (i.e. discussed with CM) so I am opening this again but let's just be careful where we go with it, folks...

Last edited by vometia; 08/12/20 12:32 PM.

J'aime le fromage.
Joined: Nov 2020
B
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
B
Joined: Nov 2020
I'm going to disregard the OP.
My only intent is to focus on cosmetic and aesthetics aspects (or lack thereof).
Please show forbearance for my linguistic mistakes.

1- Roleplay
I think it's still worth mentioning that DnD is about roleplay and the game was praised for its psychological development benefits.
No extensive physical description of your character is required to play the game. And I never met a DM asking for a full description of my character facial traits (who, by definition, is not me).
In the official documentation, information about the physical appearance seems scarce. However it is actually sufficient.
What you need is to differenciate the races and this is done thanks to a very few elements. For some subraces, there is a simple and rather efficient way to identify them, mostly based on colours (skin / hair / eyes).
On the contrary, the amount of information pertaining to the environment, culture, history, religion and psychology is abundant.
You may want to enhance the aesthetics value of this realmlore but generating restrictions based on cosmetic choices would be detrimental.

That is the primary reason why you struggle to find a canonical description of the elven appearance.

Now let me gently make fun of you. Just for a few seconds , I swear.
Over 4 decades, many articles have been published to help players embody characters of all races.
Back in 1982, in the official magazine (which is still published under a different format), you could read this (as an introduction to a long article about elves):

Elves are much like humans in physical appearance. They are thinner and somewhat smaller, averaging about 5 feet tall, but not small enough for the size difference to affect the way elves see humans and vice-versa.
(end of physical description)

That does not prevent elves from having other features as re-highlighted in the description of half-elves but there is no fundamental need to make them explicit.
An interesting point about half-elves is that they are said to be easily mistaken for members of either race, thus substantiating the claim that the differences between humans and elves are kept minimal. There is another contributing factor in the description of hereditary traits potentially found in their human descendants: it's limited to pointed ears and infravision.

Of course, a lot and a lot of lore has been published since then and, back then, the Forgotten Realms campaign setting wasn't published yet.
However why would you introduce more specific physical features? In a game about imagination and creativity, what good would it do?

Joined: Nov 2020
B
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
B
Joined: Nov 2020
2- mythology
There are other reasons why elves are hard to describe, noticeably because of their DnD mythology.
First I would like to point out that DnD elves are not Tolkien's elves.
The DnD game universe is really like a sponge absorbing pieces of lore from so many sources. Even though it is obvious to me that Tolkien's popularity had a huge impact on the DnD content, the DnD elven lore has many references to how elves were perceived, in our real world, across the centuries.
In the cosmogony and in the mythology, DnD elves are modeled on that of real world lore and legends in a quite chronological manner.

At first they are chaotic, shapeshifting, free-flowing like their chaotic and invisible european model.
When some of them decide to become more "defined" and then adopt an elven identity, thus renouncing part of their fundamental chaotic nature, a conflict occurs. Their greater god casts them out of their homeland and a diaspora takes place.
No doubt you'll find all the details you want on the Internet.
All of that is a DnD myth but it helps to better comprehend and substantiate the elven nature.

The part I'm interested in is their new main homeland: the feywild of self-descriptive nature.
Again it's akin to the mid/late middle age elves seen as fey, and as such, creatures in realms of enchantements and illusion (at least in continental Europe + British Isles)
There the elves take shape, modeled after the Leshay. Not a helpful reference because this is a chicken and egg problem, the leshay being described as albino elves. However this indicates that the prime material creatures, including humans, are not their functional model.
In a world so imbued with magics, it is easy to understand how difficult it would be to proceed to the definition of their canonical appearance. By the way the so called nobles, or the most elv-ish of them so to speak, named Eladrin, are still able to change their appearance to some extent.
The environment is also effective at generating sub-races. AFAIK the sun / moon / green / dark elf subdivison predates their arrival on Toril.

Our artistic representation of fairies is quite unrestrictive, obeying no standard. Anthropocentrism remains the main constant though. And of course there is the witch trait archtype when there is a need to describe the creatures as scary or spooky. Same thing with DnD elves, it is very contextual.
Among the works that influenced DnD, there is one particular source describing slender, high cheek bones, pointy ear creatures, these are the dark elves in Anderson's literature (let's be honest I haven't verified). Yes they just need to be scary whereas the light elves, their counterpart in (part of) the norse mythology, are reputed for their beauty.

Incidentally, as DnD elves are not Tolkien copy-paste, themselves influenced by their norse ancesters, they have no reason to inherit the fair-folk cliché / euro-morphotype associated (for debatable reasons) to Tolkien's elves. Well on condition that you do not mistake one for the other.
Similarities between the two narratives do not help though.
Moreover elves spread over all the continents when they came to Toril. If they had to adopt yet another precise morphotype there is absolutely no reason to specifically take the faerunian, supposedly caucasian, model. Ah and btw humans were not yet civilised enough to interact with elves.

Joined: Nov 2020
B
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
B
Joined: Nov 2020
3- contemporary representation
In Baldur's Gate and Shadows of Amn this diversity is still well represented. Some companions have that big eyes and high cheek bones combo but the two elvish villains are rather different. Even the one who should best represent her race, the queen Ellesime looks like a luscious human.
Paper publications show diverse models too.

So why is there a shift towards more angular and triangular faces in the early 2000s?
From the artistic standpoint the pattern is clearly not new, roswell like creatures, star-trekish influence, vampires etc.
The choice is not particularly original. Again the need to look alien and spooky.
In DnD, this is not a driven by the existing lore. And why just elves among the playable races. Other races on Toril are as alien as theirs (dwarves).

My personal interpretation is that one of the root causes is technology driven and not a sudden artistic preference.
The pnp publications, literature and artworks have no need for such constraints on their creativity.
However at 3e and 3.5e release time, the video game industry is fond of 3D games. For the DnD owner this is a distribution vector and a market segment of growing importance.
The graphics engine performances were rudimentary. Where a 2D engine always succeeded in differentiating the races with just the size and build as variables, those 3D engines required more. The old 3D processing capabilities leave no room for fine distinction. Just using pointy ears would have been too subtile. Redesigning the whole face in a drastic manner clearly helps.
Maybe it is also the opportunity for a new setting to leave its mark but we know what became of 3e and 4e...

For instance, have a look at the difference between the npc portraits and their 3d in-game models in the original Neverwinter Nights game.

15-20 years later, things are much different. Personally I welcome Larian's rollback to human faces of any type because I do not see those triangular options as an enhancement to the global aesthetics value. I am okay with pointy ears and the absence of facial hair as the main distinctive features.
This being said, I think the whole thing is a minor point in my overall gaming experience. I can get over with cosmetic options I dislike and I do not feel the narcissistic urge to be represented in a video game.

Joined: Dec 2020
D
stranger
Offline
stranger
D
Joined: Dec 2020
I just double checked the character creation in it's current state (very bare bones) but there is a lot of diversity amongst the fictional races that reflects actual human beings appearances.

Honestly there isn't a ton of options reflecting how I look in real life either. The halflings, dwarves, githyanki and tieflings don't look anything like me in facial structure either. I noticed there is a robust selection of skin color options present though, so that's great. Keep in mind that in it's current state, barely anyone will be able to create a character that looks like them in real life. It's a bare bones early access fantasy based video game. It doesn't need to be political.

Joined: Dec 2020
R
stranger
Offline
stranger
R
Joined: Dec 2020
First i want to give props on the level of detail in the characters. they look super realistic and well fleshed out. I do have to agree with some of the comments here though. I wish there was more diversity in facial structure and characteristics. I find myself wanting to play half elf solely because there faces best reflect me. I just wish i had more options .

Joined: Dec 2020
B
Banned
Offline
Banned
B
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Ramshine
First i want to give props on the level of detail in the characters. they look super realistic and well fleshed out. I do have to agree with some of the comments here though. I wish there was more diversity in facial structure and characteristics. I find myself wanting to play half elf solely because there faces best reflect me. I just wish i had more options .


RIGHT???
Half elves look more human then the humans ahahaha

Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
I would like to say that while I do get OP's point, I believe that elves should look more otherworldly, as several people here have argued as well. It would also provide the option OP wants in the form of Wild Elves and Wood Elves. However, if Larian really does want to make elves nothing but "humans but with cool pointy ears" then there really is no reason not to add diverse facial types. Though, as unrealistic as it is, I would prefer BG3 Elves to be remade to look more alien so to speak.

I also agree with the slightly off-topic point brought up here that the creator should definitely feature sliders. Sadly, that is also an incredibly unrealistic idea thoigh.

Page 10 of 11 1 2 8 9 10 11

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5