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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
But mainly I just wish there were a lot of non-origin companions to round things out. For a more BG feel the VA work for such companions should be focused on simple barks and banters, not full on cinematics or romance. More peeps that could come and go, get chunked or left by the wayside, without upending the whole tadpole-team plot device. Right now the bar is set so low, I'd be happy if we end up with a dozen possible companions.

This. Ideally I'd like 12 "high-content" companions, one per class (could be 8 origins and 4 BG2+ level companions in terms of "richness") and another 12 of "low(er)-content" (between BG1 and BG2 "richness") companions, also one per class (so we have a choice within one class).

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Its just sad cause this is BG3 and I'd have hoped for more companions than we got BG2 which had a potential roster of 25. In the first two games there were a couple versions of each class archetype to choose from, which made the party feel a lot more flexible.

Actually, BG1 had 25 and BG2 15 (17 if you count temporary and ToB). But that's still ~2-3 times the final(?) number of BG3 companions...

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Yeah but to be fair BG1 and BG2 companions werent fully voiceacted so they cost way less to produce.
Also yeah, I would love to have Faldorn as a companion. An evil druid would be a very interesting option given how druids are usually represented as these weird goodie two shoes even though it makes absolutely no sense for them to be that way.

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One of each class as origin companions would be perfect. Have them equally spread out by alignment, should make people mostly happy. I would like there to be 3 of each class at some point in the game, one of each base alignment so 36 in all. Ideally, the other 24 non origin ones would have their own stories, but they don't have to be as robust as the others.

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There is a distinct lack of Dwarves in this game.
BG3 is in desperate need of a Dwarven companion!

Each time I've restarted I keep thinking about where they plan to start inserting some more NPCs into this first Act, if anywhere. But it doesn't seem like there's a whole ton of room left to start tossing dwarves about willy nilly, so hopefully they rectify things with a pretty interesting Dwarf companion. Right now there are practically no Dwarves to be seen among the rando NPCs we run into.

Shorties are conspicuously absent among the Origin options, despite offering a decent back catalogue to work from in the Realms and in fantasy or mythology more generally.
I'd be willing to wager that a lot of players might prefer rounding out their tiny team of 4 with a Dwarf.

It'd be nice to see a dwarf with a killer battle mask for once. That was a badass riff on the War Dwarf archetype of old, going back to the Silmarillion, but its rarely done up in games despite having obviously cool visual potential.

It would also be particularly nice I think to get a good Classic Dwarf. A reliable, predictable Dwarf, to offset all the other showstealers we have on team-tadpole right now. A decent brawler, who could be subbed in for Lae'zel, or a Warpriest type to be subbed in for Shadowheart, or maybe a traditional cutpurse Rogue just out for his gold (strength based would be fun) to give a sub in for Astarion.

Don't saddle us with a Dwarf Druid or a Dwarf Sorcerer or something like that just to push the envelope, simply because new editions of D&D don't have restrictions anymore. This game needs a few more touchstones anyway, and Dwarves are a stuffy lot, set in their ways.

Just give us a decently gruff voice set (hopefully one that can be used by Charname too, since that's totally absent right now) and some classic war-hammer-crashing or battle-axe-bashing Dwarf that we can rely on.


ps. another idea regarding Dwarves and beards. Nobody has yet figured out a way to do Female Dwarves with beards that's compelling, and its like a running joke within the genre. I appreciate that Larian gave us the option for female facial hair, though I suspect it may not be a super popular look. But what might be cool, in keeping with the battle mask idea, would be a kind of ornate false beard of the sort the Pharaoh Queens of Egypt would ware.

You know like Hatshepsut style. It mixes mythologies sure, but I can picture how that might look cool, since there are ways to do it that would give Female dwarves something to mess with in the Character creator the way males might get a bunch of options for braids and such. It doesn't have to be standard, but just an aesthetic option to open things up a bit on balance, 1 option among many. Just trying to think of an aesthetic feature that might actually get used more, since you could trick it out in various decorative ways to make it actually look cool.

Last edited by Black_Elk; 22/12/20 01:48 PM.
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I kind of want a bard character loosely based upon Barney Stinson, calling everything legendary.

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i actually agree that this game needs a proper dwarf.
I like to lean into tropes sometimes.

There should be some character sthat do that. a stout dwarf to rely on. an annoyingly smug elf (we already have that, but not in that way)
Something along those lines.
STout is something i wouldnt call any of the current companions. I think they overall need some testosterone.
A dependable Bro type of character would be a nice start.
Perhaps a woman thats a bit more womanly would also be nice, i guess otherwise well have to make due with Shadowheart

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Or, they can pay homage to BG1's homage to Newhart and have a character named Larry whose backstory involves getting back to his brother Darryl and his other brother Darryl - though they can do that with minor NPCs as well.

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Hehe I was really truly secretly hoping to run into Larry again. I mean it is a strange brew they're brewing after all.

Maybe Darryl could sport a falsy in this one?

Now I'm thinking false beards should be available to all, though obviously the Dwarves would make the best ones. Mithril Whiskers could be the thing that really sets this one apart hehehe

But yeah I'd like to see a standard trope for a Dwarf companion, just done up to the nines from the mines. We need something to hold onto
Dig deep, put in the work Larian.

Last edited by Black_Elk; 22/12/20 02:00 PM.
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Of course, for anyone unfamiliar with the cameo:

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Agree on the dwarf. We need one. A male one, because that's a classic, please don't force the female dwarf thing, it never works out, it only ever worked once with Shale in DA:O, and even then it was a golem.
Now that I think of it, I think the only way I could be sold on a non-evil Bard companion is if it was a dwarven skald character who is honorable and seeks valiance, glory and honor in his own conduct. That being said I would also be happy with a Dwarven cleric/paladin, because we need something that breaks the mold of "Dwarf = dumb hick"

Last edited by Bruh; 22/12/20 03:51 PM.
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And I'm actually going to throw in that I want to see a transgender PC show up somewhere in here - seeking a magical item to swap sexes (and BG1 did have such a "cursed item" indeed). Trans people have been around since prehistoric times and I think it's about time to show it in a game like this. I don't care if they're MTF or FTM, but I want to see the character. I see them as closeted at first, but once you get their goal out of them they become themselves behaviorally even before getting the item.

Now to hear from people triggered by other people with different experiences in 3... 2... 1...

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I like the idea of a dwarf war priest - like the one from BG1, Yeslick - I liked him and basically used him constantly after saving him. And yes to a more reliable and less dramatic companion. Team tadpole really has enough drama going on right now.


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Originally Posted by VeronicaTash
And I'm actually going to throw in that I want to see a transgender PC show up somewhere in here - seeking a magical item to swap sexes (and BG1 did have such a "cursed item" indeed). Trans people have been around since prehistoric times and I think it's about time to show it in a game like this. I don't care if they're MTF or FTM, but I want to see the character. I see them as closeted at first, but once you get their goal out of them they become themselves behaviorally even before getting the item.

Now to hear from people triggered by other people with different experiences in 3... 2... 1...

I mean... Gith are pretty much trans-people. When it comes to genitalia, both the males and the females have cloaca, because they lay eggs now and the only difference between their genders is breasts pretty much.
On the other hand if we got Edwin back that would be fun laugh Maybe he wants to become a woman for real this time lol.

Originally Posted by fylimar
I like the idea of a dwarf war priest - like the one from BG1, Yeslick - I liked him and basically used him constantly after saving him. And yes to a more reliable and less dramatic companion. Team tadpole really has enough drama going on right now.

YES! THIS! I WANT YESLICK BACK!
Too bad he was very old even back then, but who knows? Dwarves live a very long time.

Last edited by Bruh; 22/12/20 04:30 PM.
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Originally Posted by Bruh
Originally Posted by VeronicaTash
And I'm actually going to throw in that I want to see a transgender PC show up somewhere in here - seeking a magical item to swap sexes (and BG1 did have such a "cursed item" indeed). Trans people have been around since prehistoric times and I think it's about time to show it in a game like this. I don't care if they're MTF or FTM, but I want to see the character. I see them as closeted at first, but once you get their goal out of them they become themselves behaviorally even before getting the item.

Now to hear from people triggered by other people with different experiences in 3... 2... 1...

I mean... Gith are pretty much trans-people. When it comes to genitalia, both the males and the females have cloaca, because they lay eggs now and the only difference between their genders is breasts pretty much.
On the other hand if we got Edwin back that would be fun laugh Maybe he wants to become a woman for real this time lol.

Originally Posted by fylimar
I like the idea of a dwarf war priest - like the one from BG1, Yeslick - I liked him and basically used him constantly after saving him. And yes to a more reliable and less dramatic companion. Team tadpole really has enough drama going on right now.

YES! THIS! I WANT YESLICK BACK!
Too bad he was very old even back then, but who knows? Dwarves live a very long time.

It doesn't have to be Yeslick, but someone like him would be ok - on the other hand: if Minsc, a human, can be back, a dwarf shouldn't be too much of a problem. I liked, that there wasn't that much drama about Yeslick - and he was a very good and versatile character. I used Branwen until I got him, but while I did liek Branwen too, I liked Yeslick more.

About transgender characters: could be interesting. I really liked Krem and Maevaris in the Dragon Age franchise, especially Maevaris is very well integrated in teh whole lore. If we could get a similar well written companion, that would be great.


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Yeah I'm on board for Yeslick, just old as dirt but still swinging. A Dwarf Paladin word work, just make sure its a proper Dwarven type diety and I'm there. Skald might also be cool, especially singing warsongs and such. If practically nothing else, the Hobbit film did manage to nail how Dwarves should sing. There's plenty to back it up, even like Snow White and the Huntsman leaned into that. So sure, Skald or Paladin would work for me. Just make sure they can take a hit. Nobody want's a Dwarf that can't tank around or carry a tower shield tall enough to turtle up proper.

@veronica for trans, I think the way into it for high fantasy is to build on some of the more ancient myths. I actually think they should steer clear of trying to make it feel too modern, but instead show that as you pointed out this is a phenomenon that goes back to prehistory. They should look to myths and legends like those Tiresias. Dyalos and Adgistis or the like. Or take some of the ideas from like the pools of Salmacis, and start weaving that into the realms, to give such stories an expression in Faerun. There should be background story elements to support the concepts within the worldbuilding more broadly, so its not treated as bizarre or a novelty but just part of the natural order. Not suggesting that PCs need to necessarily be able to roleplay an actual transition, or become an Erotes like Hermaphroditus or Phanes. But something in the overall architecture of the lore that's a little more compelling than say, a belt of gender swapping. I fully agree. In addition to ancient western sources, there are also a number of world mythologies and esp indigenous myths and legends that could be drawn from, because again (unsurprisingly) this has been a fact of human life for a long time and basically everywhere. Its timely, especially at this moment, but they should approach it as in FR terms as something with some antiquity to it, in-world, so when they do decide to take that trip eventually, it actually reads as something with proper D&D heroics, or as part of the longer lineage, if that makes sense. In other words, they should leave the shapeshifting anachronism to the legends and lore, and so the companion can just be presented as is, without needing to make a bunch of extraneous commentary about it. But of course the territory is fraught, as Beamdog learned when they tried it in a slapdash fashion, Larian should do it with more tact and deliberation to ensure they don't fall down the same old pits. That's more for a companion type character, for the PC the player should be able to roll as whatever they want or can imagine. That's the whole promise of the game from its inception.

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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
@veronica for trans, I think the way into it for high fantasy is to build on some of the more ancient myths. I actually think they should steer clear of trying to make it feel too modern, but instead show that as you pointed out this is a phenomenon that goes back to prehistory. They should look to myths and legends like those Tiresias. Dyalos and Adgistis or the like. Or take some of the ideas from like the pools of Salmacis, and start weaving that into the realms, to give such stories an expression in Faerun. There should be background story elements to support the concepts within the worldbuilding more broadly, so its not treated as bizarre or a novelty but just part of the natural order. Not suggesting that PCs need to necessarily be able to roleplay an actual transition, or become an Erotes like Hermaphroditus or Phanes. But something in the overall architecture of the lore that's a little more compelling than say, a belt of gender swapping. I fully agree. In addition to ancient western sources, there are also a number of world mythologies and esp indigenous myths and legends that could be drawn from, because again (unsurprisingly) this has been a fact of human life for a long time and basically everywhere. Its timely, especially at this moment, but they should approach it as in FR terms as something with some antiquity to it, in-world, so when they do decide to take that trip eventually, it actually reads as something with proper D&D heroics, or as part of the longer lineage, if that makes sense. In other words, they should leave the shapeshifting anachronism to the legends and lore, and so the companion can just be presented as is, without needing to make a bunch of extraneous commentary about it. But of course the territory is fraught, as Beamdog learned when they tried it in a slapdash fashion, Larian should do it with more tact and deliberation to ensure they don't fall down the same old pits. That's more for a companion type character, for the PC the player should be able to roll as whatever they want or can imagine. That's the whole promise of the game from its inception.

I love the idea of giving it an ancient flare - but I also think the desire to switch to an applicable body is still going to be a strong desire, especially in a world where that is possible - and more possible than it is today's modern world - due to magic.

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Yeah for sure, I mean that's the beauty of Magic. The reality is that a lot of stuff is already present in the backcatalogue of the Realms if they did a little legwork. D&D has been on the inclusive side of the culture wars for a long time, so we know there's a fit, and in literature more widely these are things that have interested humans for ages and ages. And its not just about sexuality, or dress, or comfort in one's skin, but power too. Not so much in Dungeons and Dragons of today, but surely in the the sorts medieval or ancient societies it borrows from and builds itself out of. There were pretty obvious reasons that a woman want might to be man and hold power in times like those. Like you know Agrippina would have wanted to be Caesar herself, if Locusta had only had the right potion hehe.

But going back a little further you can see the reverse too, if only vestigially. Like when obviously the Sky Gods wanted what the Earth Goddesses had, given how pretty much every early myth cycle cracked off. Probably more than a few priests wishing they were priestesses in whatever period preceded, just for pure power motivations. But yeah, the game really doesn't need to be that complicated with it. They should just provide a cool point in the story where the PC is offered a choice. A magical choice, that they can either pursue or ignore, as their interest dictates.

The genius of Edwin in BG2, is that they threw that belt in there kinda casually, as casual as a polymorph can be at any rate. They handled his metamorphosis conundrum like proper thracian witchraft, like Lucius, like oh shit this is a story worth checking out! And so it worked and the character remains celebrated. Ahead of his time. There was an element of choice to it too, after the initial questline, that left the door open.

Plus I think if Bioware had actually commissioned a proper female portrait and voice set for Edwina at the time, I bet like half of everyone would have elected to have him remain a babe for the duration. Clearly he was getting into it, and discovering things he didn't know he didn't know haha.

Edwina custom portraits and voice sets probably got hacked into the thing by more than a few Shadowkeepers, but it would have been nice if they had actually built it into the game on the first pass. Took another decade and a half for the Enhanced Editions to fix that issue, or maybe it was just a mod? I can't recall. But anyway, they handled it with style.

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i dont hate female dwarves, they can be neat.

But make male characters that are more traditionally masculine.
And not in the Cocky athlete stereotype, make a Bro, someone who has your back. Someone that acts like Men act when they are in trouble together.

And while were at it, some female character that embraces positive feminine qualiites

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Well there's something to be said for stereotyping too. Because without your stock standard-variety types, the Companions who break the mold don't have a point of contrast to make them seem more compelling by comparison.

The problem with this game is that they just didn't make enough companions. Quantity matters.

If they had more standard tropes on offer, it would make the other companions who diverge from those tropes more interesting. BG1 had no problem leaning into the standard fair. People fell in love with it because it was pretty much what one might expect, just well executed. Maybe with a few breaks to keep it lively. Throw in a Drow on the run who worships Shar but remains decidedly villainous. A couple colorful shorties that drift at least a little ways from the hobbity comfort zone but not by much. A stuttering Fighter who's kind of a coward, but still basically gets the job done. A shadow druid. A kid sister rogue who could slings spells, maybe. And you're pretty much set, because everyone else was moreorless stock fair. We had a Valkyrie, two maniacal evil wizards, some bard grifters and the like. Robin hood, two solid Dwarves, a Paladin (being all Paladin-like), a barbari-I mean 'ranger' with a goofy accent. All the usual suspects. And because it was basically boiler plate, that made it all the better when it started branching out in BG2.

They just need to stop worrying about wowing us with the newness of these same 5 characters, and open the floodgates on it. Focus on Barks and banters and just giving us the whole shabang, with like 5 times the number of companions. Don't sweat it if you're not reinventing the wheel. For many this is all comfort food, treat it more like Xmas dinner. Like we better see some fucking mashed potatoes on the plate, or of course its going to be disappointing.

You can only switch it up with so many dishes so fast. Or sure, maybe sometimes you can get away with eating chinese take out or pizza or tacos, "cause we're doing it different this year!" That might be exciting a couple times, once in the blue moon. But it's probably not going to happen every year, and you probably don't want to eat all of that stuff all together at once in the same meal. I don't know, but I feel like I showed up at the door expecting a full on meal with the bird and all the fixings, and they're just doling out fancy appetizers all night. Sorry, I was caterwaiter for years. I can't help it

Last edited by Black_Elk; 22/12/20 06:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by Sordak
But make male characters that are more traditionally masculine. Someone that acts like Men act when they are in trouble together.

Wyll is one no?

Originally Posted by Sordak
And while were at it, some female character that embraces positive feminine qualiites

Shadowheart is feminine, maybe you will see those qualities if you get on her good side.

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