Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General What kind of companions would you like to see?

But why? Why can't we just have diverse characters that include characters that have old-fashioned views and personalities too? Contrast is good.

Contrast is fine, I was talking about what player were writing here. The whole discussion about what is a perfect 'feminine' female (same with the male discussion, I guess) rubs me the wrong way. I'm not mad, I know people have strange views, I just found it a bit hilarious.

We already have a drow dominatrix in the story (whom you can romance). So that is checked.

These are our old-fashioned ideas about gender (women=vulnerable et cetera), not the Faerunian concepts (I mean, looking at the lore, People in Faerun have very different ideas about sex and gender).

Strange is in the eyes of the beholder. Our discussion de-railed a bit from the ''what I want to see in the game'' to ''whether what I want to see is justified and why''. Personally I don't think a justification is needed, but if someone is going to imply that their view is the ''correct'' one I will chime in.

That's fair. I got caught up in something I really didn't believe in, and I apologize. I hope to hell we don't get those two either, I really disliked them.

>What are you even trying to say here?
that a masculine woman is masculine... for a woman and probably sitll a lot less masculine than a very effeminate man.

>If you put a bunch of feminine men and a bunch of masculine men into the same unit the dynamic will also be different
Incorrect.
a feminine man will be pushed in the same way as a non feminine man. a woman will be treated differently.
Ive seen it happen firsthand in the military.

>Individuals also have different biology.
and the biology between a man and a woman is more different than that between individual men and women.
this is also probably not awfully controversial.
Humans have phenotypical differences but that doesnt erase millions of years of evolution through different evolutionary pressures and sexual selection.
>Blindly follow biology
you can try to defy it, i never made a statement about human INTENT.
Point is tho, youll quickly realize that when a man acts more like a woman, he wont start thinking like one and the change in his behaviour would have to be intentional.



>Dusk horseman
beeing nice isnt always a good quality. Neither is not criticising anyone or not taking charge.



>Dude, you are so full of it. You used the phrase "Evolutionary Psychology"
slip up on the second one.
google it, Evoltuionary psychology is a real thing and just because you never heard of it doesnt mean its not real.
Wait till you hear about game theory, then youll start to think the world has gone mad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology
There, in case you somehow believe that this is something that only exists on youtube or the like.


>As a woman
Ok.
>I really hope, we won't get an Aerie or a Viconia again.

And i wish you best of luck grappling with a fanbase that genuinly holds up Viconia as one of the, if no thte most memorable characters of the franchise and her romance as the gold standard in CRPG romances.

i also genuinly apreciate you putting words in my mouth.
But it also reveals some things. As far as im concerned, showing vulnerability to people that are close to you is a sign of maturity, not anything else.
But if that makes you feel threatened, i will immediatly stop talking about this when Chick flicks stop featuring men that have no personality ouside of beeing determined and falling over themselves for a plain woman with no redeeming qualities other than beeing the viewer self insert, oh yeah and the part where he always has to be filthy rich and good looking.

have it your way. But i can still enjoy watching the Nanny without feeling attacked.

I mean yeah. What I was saying was in response to an earlier thing where people were saying that Wyll was an example of toxic masculinity, which I disagree with. They're not great qualities, but they're certainly not toxically masculine ones.

Yes, I know the discipline exists, but I am also pretty sure it does not mean what you think it does. I meant pseudo-science in that sense, that you are evoking a field of study to support your argument without any credibility on that field. Sorry, mate.

The scientific consent had rebuked this kind of regressive attitude about gender and gendered behavior decades ago.

Sordak: I was basically referring to your posts with my comments and you proof me right.
I'm in the BG community for many years and I don't see a big Viconia movement. I'd say, every romance in the games is talked about equally, positive and negative.
And I really don't care, if every person in the world loves Viconia, doesn't really change my opinion.

well toxic masculinity is not a word id use in general because its unneccesarily polarizing.

Id say wyll is certainly not a very manly character in the sense of maturity and positive masculine qualities.

doesnt mean hes not probably the nicest of the companions, but id say agreeability is not a good judgement about those qualities.


and oh man
>The scientific consent had rebuked this kind of regressive attitude about gender and gendered behavior decades ago.
prove it then, outstanding claims require outstanding evidence.

The fact that theres critics of an academic field doesnt mean that the field is somehow invalid or that its findings can be discounted out of hand.
In what field do you have any credability?
Do you need a physcis major to discribe that things fall when you drop them?
What kind of silly reductionist argument is that.

>Sordak: I was basically referring to your posts with my comments and you proof me right.
Nice kafkatrap.
clearly my protest of your characterization proves your characterization right.

I encourage you to read this forum then. also id like to ask, which romance in the series do you prefer then? is any of them good?
Are they all horrible? Im genuinly interrested now.


For what its worth, the two of you sound like ideologues to me.
You dismiss academic fields out of moral considerations and call beloved staples of the franchise awfull. Well then, you are entitled to your opinion, but somehow i dont think youre making anyone reconsider their position this way.

I like Wyll, too. I think he will have a very interesting personal arc throughout the chapters of the story. I really hope that Larian adds pact of the blade in one of the next updates, so he can shine a bit.

Ohh my god, dude. I am not dismissing the field of study you mentioned. I just think you are bullshiting and have no idea about the field.

You think the field will validate your very last century ideas about gender and gendered behavior and I seriously doubt that because as I have mentioned there was a paradigm shift in natural sciences (especially in psychology) about gender relations, thanks to the work of feminist scholars whose dedicated and hard earned scholarly achievements you dismissed so easily.

Ok, this is just factually false and extremely easy to debunk with real life examples. A statement like that almost makes me feel like you live in a small village with very little contact with the outside world, but you are on the internet.. or you just heavily filter the media you consume.


So the dynamic is different because people are sexist in he work place. What now?


Differences in primary sexual characteristics and everything to do with reproduction, yes. However the individual differences between different men and women do indeed outweight the difference between men and women as a whole.


You already start with a false premise that there is such a thing as ''acting like a woman''. A man can be naturally feminine without intent.

If you can reduce the entirety of traditional masculinity and put it as equivalent to toxic masculinity, then you probably have a very narrowminded and likely ideologically framed view of masculinity; if not an outright chauvinist one.



It was fairly obvious from what the other people wrote that they thought of Wyll not as "too feminine" but too juvenile. Somebody not being masculine does not make them feminine.

Ahahahaha, oh my God, I'm falling off my chair. Feminist theory is legit, but oh no, evolutionary biology is a pseudo-science.
Also calling masculinity toxic is toxic. There is nothing toxic about traditional masculinity, and men don't owe conformity to people who resent and hate them. If you find this troubling, good. You should feel troubled, as all petty tyrants should

Is it not possible to have a discussion without attacking each other? Please be civil people.

As a gay man I have to wonder what strange and really progressive views some of the feminist players here have. I really hope we get an Aerie or a Viconia again.

Dude you already admitted never studying evo-psych, so you might as well stop making uneducated comments about it's validity. You just don't like it because it disagrees with you, therefore you try to assassinate it's validity so that you can feel comfortable.

If you read through this discussion, it really shows how much people think in the dichotomy of masc/fem. So yes, not being masculine, means being feminine, because femininity has been defined as a lack by as old as Aristotle.

About traditional masculinity. Yes, there is a crisis of masculinity today, in post-feminism society, because we have discovered that the way we used to think man should be, that ain't shit. That's one of the challenges of contemporary men that we have to construct a healthy idea of masculinity that is not toxic (as the traditional idea was). That is not a chauvinist attitude, only it is informed by the findings of the past fifty years of cultural scholarship.

I am a dude. I have problems with emotion. I get angry, sometimes too much because I was taught that is the only valid emotion I am allowed to have. I have my heroes, mostly from antiquity whom I admire, but I also see how sometimes they were ain't shit.

@Bruh @spacehamster95

Tbh feminist theory AND evolunionary psychology are both pseudoscience.

Dude, please read through the discussion.


Yes, I have never studied it, just like Sordak. The difference, I won't name drop a field of study I am not familiar with just to support my argument.



They are both valid fields of study, with incredible achievements. Let's not dismiss them so easily.