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Dear Larian,

i have to say that i liked and bought BOTH DoS1 and 2 during Early Access and was never disapointet.
The world was very detailed. The Combat was plain hilarious and somewhat "overdone" but it fitet well into the comedy-like world with all its joking and very humorous approach. It felt at some point like a fantasy-Game within the Discworld by Terry Pratchet.
With Baldurs gate you recreated alot of what made DOS1 and 2 enjoyable.


I read ALOT of Novels and to be honest.... almost ALL of that Novels are based upon 3.5 and even books that are newly written dont take notice of 4.0 ever happend (storywise).
Immersion is a huge Factor for me in a RPG. I want to immagine the game like a Novel. And here comes the Problem with BG3. Some things just dont fit into the World.

I am not talking about minor things like some Lore violations or stuff like this. Its about totaly immersion-breaking stuff.

For example the food healing...... the thought that you bite into an apple DURING a swordfight to heal your wounds is horrible. And we are not talking about special rare magical food like "Goodberries" conjured by a druid. We talking about EVERY food and the totaly abundance of its availability. Mechanicaly it trivialises also the importance of certain classes. Who needs a Priest when i can get a Cook for combat healing. In DOS1 and 2 it was fitting as everything was hilarous. In BG3 this a Immersion Killer.


Another thing ist the jumping...... This nonstop Super Mario combat where everyone jumps around several yards even upwards even from a "standing still" position or while engaged in a sword fight. And no its not about the broken Disengagement system..... i am Talking about the JUMPING. THis is like wathing a Chineese Ghost story film. Everyone flies around ignoring gravity and trading blows while jumping. It fits in a Chineese martial Arts theme. But it doesnt fit into a DND game. In fact it totaly ruins the Immersion to a degree that it becomes activly negative experience.

In fact i couldnt even motivate myself to start the game again since Patch3 as all that changed was that barrelmancy is abit less hilarious than before. I have the impression that this game will keep its "DoS comedy-spirit" while at the same time trying to be serious and very adult (death of children, Brains ripped, Tadpole-Horror, etc.). And that MIX is making it far more worse that if they stick to either style. And patches and communications so far indicate that this "mix" WILL stay no matter what people say.


So i have a request:
Could you make a special event where people can refund the game for half its price? We all know that you CANT see or get a feel for such a massive game in the 2 Hours period of steam (no matter if EA or not).
It would be a very nice move for the People who bought the game just because of the Name Baldurs Gate (with the logical Expectations behind it based upon the previous titles).
Just refund for HALF the Price. I think there are some people who would deeply appreciate this. Is there any Chance?

Last edited by Baldurs-Gate-Fan; 23/12/20 11:07 AM.
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With a game not being finished, I don’t think asking for refund is unreasonable. GOG allows to ask for the refund for EA at any point as long as the game isn’t released yet.

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Yes but have been buying all Larian games on steam frown
So Larian ist the one to adress to maybe make a refund possible (even if only at half price) or alternativly the comitment that all theese immersion breaking things are placeholder because game is not finished. But to me it seems game-design is finished and only content missing.

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I'd honestly scratch up the eating food mid combat mechanic as a bug, it shouldn't be possible for me to mid combat magic pockets my mule char's buffet

out of combat go hog wild on the food healing folks tho, tho in combat health consumes should be limited to healing potions etc,

Afaik larian has stated they're listening to feedback and are evening considering expanding the default party size (!!!) so designwise it feels like things aren't entirely set in stone (yet)

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Originally Posted by Ianthebea
I'd honestly scratch up the eating food mid combat mechanic as a bug, it shouldn't be possible for me to mid combat magic pockets my mule char's buffet

out of combat go hog wild on the food healing folks tho, tho in combat health consumes should be limited to healing potions etc,

Afaik larian has stated they're listening to feedback and are evening considering expanding the default party size (!!!) so designwise it feels like things aren't entirely set in stone (yet)

Well would be awesome if they did but they are very rarely comunicating with the fans..... MUCH less that used to be in DOS games.

Some things arent even mentioned by them despite tons of written threads regarding certain things........ It feels like they are intentionaly evading discussions about these things.

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Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Well would be awesome if they did but they are very rarely comunicating with the fans..... MUCH less that used to be in DOS games.

Because too many players. It's like when a streamer has 10 viewers they can pretty much respond to every message, but if there are thousands of viewers and a flying wall of text chances are streamer will never notice your particular message.

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Originally Posted by Kadajko
Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Well would be awesome if they did but they are very rarely comunicating with the fans..... MUCH less that used to be in DOS games.

Because too many players. It's like when a streamer has 10 viewers they can pretty much respond to every message, but if there are thousands of viewers and a flying wall of text chances are streamer will never notice your particular message.
You mean they never ever saw a thread where people complain it lacks DnD feeling?

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Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
You mean they never ever saw a thread where people complain it lacks DnD feeling?

Probably have, how should I know? lol

What they do with that information is also unkown currently.

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Originally Posted by Kadajko
Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
You mean they never ever saw a thread where people complain it lacks DnD feeling?

Probably have, how should I know? lol

What they do with that information is also unkown currently.

Correct! And thats the most disturbing thing.... not commenting at it or not even mentioning it while a few words could work wonder if they wanted.
Ignoring the fans critics didnt go well with other games...... looking at "sword coast Legends" or "Dawn of War3".

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I think it feels like DnD. A lot of players think it feels like DnD. I do sympathize with those that are not enjoying the game though as its a big title with a big IP and something thats dear to a lot of players hearts. Stay with it, the modders will provide the changes most people are looking for. When you think anout it, we are pretty well served with decent RPG's. Could be swamped with ported console actions games and (spits) battle royale titles.

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I agree with you op about food and jumping. On my second playthrough and really abusing the jump and its absolutely ridiculous. Just as you said, its like super Mario world out here now haha. The only thing missing is an occasion coin popping up.

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What’s funny is I didn’t even know you could heal by eating at first. I thought it was so ridiculous that they would do such a thing. But then I learned you could even eat in combat. I suppose it’s optional so I’m not too concerned about it.

It’s like Larian never bothered to open any D&D rule book.

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Get a grip people - they allow for different mechanics to cover a wider audience. The food I think is great but you can self police - I only use it outside combat & I rest less.
It brings something different and enjoyable to the game - I do support though the ability to eat during combat being disabled.
The latest patch has made jumping so much better & as for it don’t feel like D&D that’s just plain wrong - in my opinion.

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I don't understand how someone can buy a game clearly labeled "early access - not a final product - do not buy if you want a final product - warning, stuff will be changing" and then want their money back when it turns out to be an unfinished beta product undergoing many changes - as labeled.

Then again, I can never understand adults who see a sign that says "Danger - Do Not Enter - Electric Fence - Guard Dogs - Crocodile Moat - You Will be Maimed or Die" and then enter and get...well maimed or die. And then of course return from the grave to sue the owner. Yes, I'm a lawyer and STILL don't understand what some folks are thinking.

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Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Originally Posted by Ianthebea
I'd honestly scratch up the eating food mid combat mechanic as a bug, it shouldn't be possible for me to mid combat magic pockets my mule char's buffet

out of combat go hog wild on the food healing folks tho, tho in combat health consumes should be limited to healing potions etc,

Afaik larian has stated they're listening to feedback and are evening considering expanding the default party size (!!!) so designwise it feels like things aren't entirely set in stone (yet)

Well would be awesome if they did but they are very rarely comunicating with the fans..... MUCH less that used to be in DOS games.

Some things arent even mentioned by them despite tons of written threads regarding certain things........ It feels like they are intentionaly evading discussions about these things.



They are possibly evading discussions as to avoid spoilers. But so far I don't think the game is all that bad there are some things that I would like to see fixed like with the feats and some of the bonuses on weapons not working and the fact that there are what is essentially 12th level enemies going against 4th level players which to me is an over kill.

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I see no way for this request to be taken seriously by Larian. This is not a Cyberpunk 2077 like failure, where investors were lied to, console versions were hidden from the public until release, so on. The rules for playing an early version of BG3 have been so clearly laid out since the beginning, the whole "not a finished product" thing.

And I have a feeling doing this would open another can of worms, there would be people complaning things like "I only played three hours, I should get a 90% refund, why should I get the same 50% refund as players who went through 30 hours!!"

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Bruh.

Go back and play Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II, and then come back to complain about an "immersion-breaking" combination of tragedy and comedy.
None of the previous Baldur's Gate games were totally serious and "realistic" (whatever that is supposed to mean in a world where dragons are flying around, breathing fire at a techno-organic airship that teleports and houses extraplanar, alien beings who like to multiply their numbers by inserting parasites into the eye sockets of members of other races).

"GO FOR THE EYES, BOO!"

'Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by SnakeChips
Bruh.

Go back and play Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II, and then come back to complain about an "immersion-breaking" combination of tragedy and comedy.
None of the previous Baldur's Gate games were totally serious and "realistic" (whatever that is supposed to mean in a world where dragons are flying around, breathing fire at a techno-organic airship that teleports and houses extraplanar, alien beings who like to multiply their numbers by inserting parasites into the eye sockets of members of other races).

"GO FOR THE EYES, BOO!"

'Nuff said.


Never said anything about humor. It’s about thing that totally violate logic or lore. In your opinion it surely would be ok if you can ram your enemy’s with a super Mario-kart (because Fantasy) but for me this sucks then

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BG 1 and 2 were games presenting adventures in the D & D Forgotten Realms, specifically the Sword Coast region, using substantial aspects of the 2.0 rule set and lore specific to the territory, characters, magic, bestiary, and history of that part of Fearun.

BG3 is a game presenting adventures in the D & D Forgotten Realms, specifically the Sword Coast region, using the 5.0 rule set, and lore specific to the territory, characters, magic, bestiary, and history of that part of Faerun.

While YOU may not see enough ties to that prior lore, they are there - and once we get to a full game, and not 10-20 % at best, will surely be there to a greater degree.

So it is clearly BG3.

Being BG3 does NOT require reversion to 2.0 rules (and I for one still am a fan of 1.0 and 2.0 rules), does NOT require it to return to the same protagonist, and does NOT require it to hold to the exact same technical/mechanical rules. BG and 2 utterly ignored the 3rd dimension - you could not climb to a roof, rappel down a cliff wall, swim down a river and so on. Games now allow for such interactions with the environment - should BG3 be forced to limit itself to only what existed back in BG1/2 era? I personally enjoy the IDEA of fire doing more damage in a flammable environment, and electricity doing more harm to someone standing in water. Do they have it down perfect yet? Maybe not, but there is still plenty of time left to perfect it. Do I like barrelmancy? Not to the degree that initially existed, but they are already toning it down - and again, I don't have a problem with blowing the crap out of a brewery, where a big huge vat of alcohol is appropriate - rather than a privy (though certain gasses tend to build up in those old school privies that might operate in a similar fashion). I am happy to watch BG3 explore the impact lighting, elevation, terrain partial cover) and the like as they are being implemented and tuned - none of which existed in BG1/2.

Nor do I expect the vast majority of characters from BG1 and 2 to still be alive and kicking in BG3 - 100 years have passed after all, in the equivalent of the middle ages - not an era known for longevity (at least in humans).

If you decide to have a child, you don't get to return him/her if they don't grow up the way you like, and get back the money you spent raising it.

If you decide to buy a game in EA, essentially a child, you don't get to return it because you don't like the way it's turning out either.

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Agree with everything you laid out in the OP... i haven't jumped on since shortly after the patch either... konked out after about 160hrs.. im still holding out hope they fix enough, particularly with combat mechanics, to make it a game id keep replaying...

i like they tried to bring back some elements of 3.5ed with 5ed compared to whatever they were thinking with 4ed.. but im still not all about it... even less about larians take on it so far..

i haven't played any larian games before this... jury still out on them for me... after the wow of some of the cinematics wears off, im not sure how much i enjoyed whats there so far... will still be following.... and having already paid my $60, ill be checking out the final product regardless of whether i sign on again before that... enough potential still there imo and cant imagine not trying out a Balders Gate game...

Last edited by Llev; 27/12/20 07:59 PM.
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