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@Niara:
Oh, don't get me wrong, I would love to see or work on a game without bugs, no clipping and all of these fine things laugh Just saying I wouldn't expect those animations fixes to be a high priority at this point - and as you write, you understand that and they will be dealt with in due time. To be honest I simply underestimated your willingness to properly report it while underestanding it takes time. In this case its just commandable and I have to apologize, I thought you mistook the current state of halfling animations as a sign of neglect rather than a reasonable workflow for the team. As harsh as it may sound any additional rig a team adds it usually has for all fixes a lower priority than the main ones, simply because you start with the most used ones.

The reason I mentioned the proportions was less to encourage you to write more about it, just to point out that if that isn't addressed rather soonish it might be a bad sign to it being changed at all. Sure I can be a lower priority for the team while it is still planned, but as proportions affect not soley animations but all customisation options, clothing assets, things like that it make sense to be corrected before you morph all assets to the body. So the later they go about it the more work it will be and the less inclined the team will be (as it also mean risk for additional bugs). Most of the times the tools to transfer armor/clothing from one body to another do speed up the process, but it does often require additional manual work, skinning corrections.. so yeah, it was just something I mentioned to keep expectations realistic.

By the way, as someone working in exactly this field (=3d characters) in a team of several hundred people I can really appreciate the analogy with the bricks wink But you start laying bricks at the fundament and not 2nd floor. Finishing the 2nd floor while the first is unstable can be a waste of time and we all know that game dev isn't know for huge buffers in planning wink This is true for the production though and it doesn't mean that keeping the vision alive isn't important, so as some who is really found of his QA collegues I really appreciate the work that you put in for the Larian team and I bet they as well.

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Niara Offline OP
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You aren't wrong, but I'm trying to remain positive ^.^ Sorry if my response was harsh.

I've heard reports that they have the groundwork in already for different body types, and that leads into the hope that that ground work will come to fruition, and give us a few options as players - types that, with luck, will work well with the final animations with only minor tweaking post-hoc. The changes to halfling models need only be subtle, and none of the most necessary ones will (or should) affect the animation rigging.

To Mad, yes, what they've done with the goblins so far generally does look good, for the most part. They have all and only the animations that were designed for them, more or less, so they're pretty decent as far as I can see. They do (I think) suffer the same difficulty with ladders as other small races, but aside from that, the poses and animations we see them in generally work. It's harder to assess them because we only really have what we can see of them second hand, rather than being able to test directly. They don't, for example, *have* any of the poses and animations for weapons that no goblin in the game as been given... they've got only what they need to be enemies in the game, at the moment... but there is a strong possibility that they could become a playable later down the track, since much of the work has already been done.

Okay, this one will be the last one for combat poses and animations for now. Until I get to the underdark and pick up a couple of hand crossbows, I won't be able to test those ones. They were VERY problematic last patch, enough that dual-wielding hand crossbows tended to cause the game to crash... it was so bad that there's a very good possibility it's been fixed, but I won't know until I get there. Between then and now, I'll do some shots of some of the cutscenes and other issues, though most of those I already know are known issues - there's some important points that bear repeating even so, as well as illustrating with more evidence. First however, the last set of weapon poses.

One-handed animations:

Small-sized characters have their own animations and poses for one-handed weapons with an empty off-hand. The poses themselves are mostly good, with some oddities that are worth mentioning. We have two main poses; one for daggers and short swords, and one for 'the rest'. This is in addition to the unique javelin poses that I happened upon last time. First, here are the human-sized models for comparison; top line are the ready animations, while the bottom line are the subsequent recovery poses:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Male human-sized figures are all pretty sharp here, and the male human-sized model is unique in its dagger and short sword poses; I had to flip him around from my usual style, because he presents the weapon in the leading hand, rather than the back hand. the dagger and short sword poses are both placed here; they use the same base pose data, but are actually animated slightly differently. Female human-sized models have a different dagger and short sword pose. They have both listed here to show that they use the same pose data, however, the dagger ready pose, specifically, is completely Static for human-sized females. The short sword poses, and recovery, are identical, but they (as well as the dagger recovery pose) animate correctly. human-sized females use the same ready pose and animation as males for the heavier one-handed weapons, but they have a slightly different recovery pose. Even so, it looks polished and is pretty good.

For small sized characters, there are more issues:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Unlike human-sized models, the halflings are currently using the exact same pose and animation data for both males and females all the way through, at every step (though this causes a slight variation anomaly between females and males in the recovery poses). Similar to human-sized females, the dagger ready pose, specifically, is completely Static on both male and female halflings. Special note: without having checked dwarves (sorry dwarves), this seems as though human-sized males are the only race who have a functional one-handed dagger ready pose right now; everyone else has a Static instead.

Beyond that, there are only a few nit-picks I want to bring up here. The ready pose for heavier weapons has some bad clipping around where the leading leg meets the torso; this is especially visible on the male model. The male model also ends up looking like he has a weaker overall stance, because of this, plus his foot placement, while on the female model it generally looks more solid. In general (and this has been a trend across the poses for male and female halflings), the male model looks a little bit off balance in the recovery poses, while the female model end sup leaning forward slightly more, and this makes the visible centre of gravity more stable as a result. There is a slight weapon misalignment for the heavier pose for female halflings.

These poses were obviously designed for the smaller races, and it shows, becaue they're well appointed, without stretching or over-extension. The only other comment I would make is that the off-hand on recovery poses for female halflings seems to have gotten a bit lost; on the males, the off-hand stretches out and is in a ready position to respond to sudden threats as the character recovers from the attack. On females, however, the elbow has gotten stiffly bent and the hand floats in and down instead, looking out of place and without any real purpose. If it were corrected to match the males, the poses would look better, unless the intent from Larian is to give separate ready and recovery poses to males and females among the small-sized races as well.

Other than that, these poses are pretty solid.

Next up will be some shots of cutscenes and other unique events; many of these I have been informed are already known about, but a few bear cataloguing with visuals anyway.

Last edited by Niara; 28/12/20 04:22 AM.
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Implementing well proportioned (homogeneous) Halflings and Gnomes would be a walk in the park for Larian Studios.

https://preview.redd.it/fqfvwx1v7yt51.jpg?auto=webp&s=16202c63579f95a4b9ac7abd72b7a037ea215c5f
Example of a in-game Goblin Child

https://preview.redd.it/26038lei7is51.jpg?auto=webp&s=d6281582ef0badf95606b62326b7e8efc26dbd32
Example of some in-game Tiefling Children

However, there can be some serious legal ramifications down the road by doing so. Larian Studios have already pushed (very bravely) the limits to the extreme with optional in-game child killing. Now imagine if the in-game Halflings and Gnomes where "well proportioned" (child-like) and how media (narrow-minded reviewers and players) would react with that in combination with the "explicit romances".

From a personal standpoint, I find the current Halflings (and Gnomes) to be "grotesque/hideous". I would rather play a Goblin, and hope Larian Studios officially down the road implement that. Until then:

https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/14
Playable Goblins

Last edited by Avalonica; 28/12/20 04:43 PM.
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Hm. I don't work for Larian, I have no insider information, I have no legal expertise. I am admittedly versed in the lore of the Forgotten Realms (and a couple of other fantasy settings). And I'm living in a 21st century that has left "D&D = satanism" behind and made global financial and cultural successes of fantasy universes through Jackson's LOTR films and the GoT TV series, which included a dwarf human making lo fucking a number of prostitutes. So allow me to react in a non-optimally-informed, biased and sort of layman fashion.

I tend to doubt this is the reason why Dwarves, Halflings and Gnomes don't look as good as they should, and well-proportioned (I'm going to leave aside the question of whether, truly, well proportioned short races look child-like). Should any ill-informed and narrow-minded person complain that "omg, children have sex in this game", they would most hopefully be looked down upon by the larger, more enlightened and open-minded crowd.

Most likely, it's simply because it's still the early days of EA, and not everything is up to speed yet (understatement here).


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Heya Avalonica, thanks for your input,

I do want to say though, please have a proper read through the early section of the thread. The entire purpose and point of what I'm illustrating, with evidence, is that a properly well-proportioned halfling, that looks like a mature adult of their species, looks neither like a human with dwarfism, nor do they look even remotely like a juvenile human. That's the entire contention; “well-proportioned halflings” and “child-like appearance” are exact opposites. A large part of what I've shown and demonstrated here is making that precise point.

Those tiefling kids are maybe nine or ten. They are already far taller than any halfling is ever going to be. Halflings share their height bracket with one to two year old humans, and they ought to look nothing at all like those.

The clamours of “oh but they'll look like children” come from the ignorant, the misinformed and the scare-mongering, and are not based in any kind of evidence or proof. Those kinds of voices are the sorts of people who like to say that someone like me – 138cm (4'6”) tall and very petitely built – shouldn't ever pursue a normal healthy intimate relationship because it's “problematic”. It's not. Those sorts of voices are the kind that should never, ever, be accommodated or pandered to.

A mature age halfling should look like mature individual for their species, and if they were properly proportioned they would. Right now, the various issues I've pointed out go into two things: it would make them appear juvenile, or presenting of neoteny, except that the other major issue overbears it, making them appear to our senses as a human with dwarfism instead. Both issues need to be fixed, and are relatively straightforward fixes to make, and would result in a figure that no-one is ever going to mistake for a human child.

I'm speaking forcefully, and I apologise for that – it's not directed at you, but at the kind of people who want to equate every 'small' thing with child-like; it's harmful, damaging behaviour, and is quite upsetting at times. Again, sorry for the hard words.

==

This next bit contains heavy spoiler information, because I'll be discussing certain dreams. Ye be warned. As a note: I'll be discussing a small-sized (female) player character dreaming with a human-sized (male) dream-suitor. There are far too many possibly player/suitor combinations for my one pair of hands and one set of free time to bring up save files and compare. I would like to do the inverse (a human-sized player with a small-sized suitor), and also two smalls, just to compare, but that's a time investment I don't have available right now.

(Dream 1: Dia is deeply perturbed)


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The first dream visit we have is very obviously an absolute messy shambles for small-sized characters. I don't really need to report on it here because functionally not a single part of it displays even remotely correctly at all, and every scene is nigh-on indecipherable for what it's meant to be showing or what is going on. This is all known issue territory, and it's clearly not in a state to be commented on yet. I'll wait until they fix it.

I do want to make a piece of personal feedback here: I find it very distasteful the way the game takes away your player agency on how your character reacted to the dream and what happened in it. Not the dream itself – though if you tell your would be lover to back off and not touch you, and they keep on coming, I find it very dissatisfying that our character just flows into the next part of the dream leaning into them again. That's a big immersion break right there. If we take the dialogue options to rebuff them, our character should visibly do the same. – But rather, after the dream, you have a dialogue, and Shadowheart is the primary directing character if she's available. The game happily informs us that we were moaning in an almost embarrassingly erotic fashion in our sleep, and, thank you very much Larian, but that's something I'll decide for myself. Maybe I was into the advances, and maybe I wasn't. If I wasn't, then just overriding that and saying “Oh, but, no, really, your character was totally into it!” is one of the absolutely shittiest Dm moves that anyone can ever pull, and is good grounds for leaving a game table entirely. Do NOT do that. If I rejected the advances here, then any erotic activity that happened afterwards was certainly non-consenting; we aren't talking about a simple dream that we passively experience; if it were, this would be different – this was a dream where we had awareness and agency, however, and that makes a difference. If Shadowheart is talking out her arse here, then she absolutely should not have the right to get the last word on it; let us correct her more soundly – she's not the player character here, I am. Let us decide and define how we reacted to these things, or, if it is essential that we do react a certain way, then let us decide and define how we feel about being forced to do so against our will, if indeed it is.


==

(Dream Two: Hollywood Wants Their Tropes Back)


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The second dream, runs more smoothly than the first, but contains a lot of issues that I would like to discuss because they stand a greater chance of being glossed over and not fixed... and no ,the funny way in which by staff moves to block my dream-boy's face throughout the first section of the dream is not one of them.

Rather, I want to talk about the Hollywood cinematography that they abuse in this second dream. The latter half of the dream is nothing but one long string of traditional Hollywood cinema shots, textbook boring. They aren't interesting or engaging or inspiring; they're tired, overused and cliched... but more than that, they are entirely and absolutely inappropriate for smaller characters. You cannot use these tired old tropes of cinematography when one of the characters is only three feet tall. They just don't work, and they break any sense of immersion in the scene.

Let's have a look:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Some of you may not notice the problem initially, but I suspect most will see it immediately.

Dia is three feet tall. Her daisy is a human male, and when they stand next to each other, her head just about reaches his waist.

No amount of camera angling can make ANY of these shots make ANY kind of believable sense.

In the first image, we have just 'slain our foes' (which has a very bad clipping issue all the way through, but that's a simple bug report). It was followed by our suitor walking up alongside us. If I were human-height, he could well be standing just a little bit behind us. I'm not; what is this image? Either I'm floating three feet off the ground suddenly, or else he is buried up to his waist in it. He could be sitting down ,perhaps... except for the fact that the preceding shot was of him walking up to us, and the following shot makes it clear that he is still standing.

The second image is that following shot; a classic Hollywood trope of cinematography; an upward pan of us standing side by side... Except, we're depicted with out hands at roughly the same height, in setup for the next even more over-used cinema trope to follow (if gives us a hand close up here, briefly). So, again, either I'm floating several feet off the ground, or he is sunk into it, just to force the alignment of our hands and put our torsos where the shot demands they be. This doesn't work for a smaller character; it just doesn't.

The third image is the next camera shot again, as we look out over the ruined city. Dia's head is above his shoulder, because Hollywood cinema dictates that's how 'dramatic standing together' looks... once again, shattering any kind of immersion for us as players. Here at least, they could keep their Hollywood shot, if they had our character show how and why they're at shoulder height here in the preceding shot; rather than just walking up to the edge of the view, they could, for example, clamber up onto some convenient rocks to get a better look; there's nothing too wrong with lamp-shading this as long as it's made to look like a smooth, natural part of the scene.

Oh and then we cut down to the crustiest of old Hollywood arch-tropes of cinema, and the dramatic close-up of hands brushing against each other! Only, Dia's hand should be a couple of feet away from his!

Then we cut back to “looking down on it all”, another classic that only works when your actors are roughly the same height (for added Hollywood style, when the scene contains a male and a female, the female is always shot to look slightly shorter than the male, regardless of their actual heights. Check!). It doesn't work here without giving up all concept of scene immersion or sense.

Of course, how could you not shoot “looking down on it all” without sliding into “eyes to each other” and “hands linked”? Because that's what we do next, naturally. Dia's little hand is not at all suitable for the pose as written, of course, and a different pose of hand-joining would be employed, but that's an easy fix and one that is more obvious as a bug, compared to the rest of this.

Then we go in for something that involves our faces (presumably this is when Dia chooses her moment to bite his tongue out, after repeatedly rejecting and rebuffing his advances and he won't back off).

Oh, no, apparently not. Once again, in the morning we're greeted with a conversation that has the game, via Shadowheart (if she is available), blithely informing us that the details of our dream are alrayd shared and everyone knows what we did (but somehow we don't know theirs?), and that we *bedded* our suitor.

No, Larian. Absolutely no. Once again, the “Oh, no, you totally love him, and you want it, and then you do a fade-to-black with him!” is the worst kind of abusive, petty Dm move that anyone can ever make. It's a violation of our character and of our right to define our character.

Let ME decide if I enjoyed my suitor's embrace or not – after spending literally every conversation option possible rebuffing him and telling him to go away and leave me alone and not to touch me, I highly doubt that I did; if I did, it wasn't with consent.

This is not just a figment dream within our own mind – this is an engagement with an obviously real and sentient entity that exists independently of us in some fashion. We might not know the details but it clearly has personhood. That means that if you are forcing there to have been an intimate encounter here, and we as a player have been rejecting the advances, then you're actively having this entity dream-rape our character (the word still applies even if it 'made us want it' through psionic or brain-hacking means); you can do that, certainly – we've already suffered a pretty bad bodily violation as the premise of the game – but IF that's what you're doing, then you absolutely need to let us, as characters express how we feel about that fact. Right now, we can't. We just have to deal with Shadow's sniffy condescension last-wording us and telling us what happened, without any options to correct her firmly or to really show how we feel about what happened, or didn't.

Perhaps Dia has been a warlock of the White Darkness since she was eight, and hasn't ever done the whole body-intimacy-act thing before, and so being forcibly compelled to do so by an entity that is invading her dreams is quite distressing to her – I can't express that.

Perhaps she has been eagerly accepting his advances and offers of power, and finding him attractive to her senses and bedding his dream avatar is a lovely bonus – I can't express that either.

Again; it matters that you let us decide whether we lay with our suitor in this dream or not, or, if we cannot decide that, then we must be able to decide in an overt way how we feel about what happened – supporting dialogue that we can choose to define our character's stance and emotional state on the matter.

==

(Dream Three: That's a lot of grass!)


Here is a montage of screenshots from the third dream. Presented without comment.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I can't really discuss the cinematography or presentation of this dream. I don't know what's going on.

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Niara: I totally agree with you about the dream sequence:
I want to decide, if my character gives in to the advances or not. This is a bit of a violation

I also agree, that the proportions of the halflings could be handled better.


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Thank you

- Do you have a good example where normal and small people are shown together?
Like an image of Gandalf, Frodo and a dwarf together in one of the Lord of the Rings movies.
Assuming halflings there are the same as in DnD.
(How did they do the beginning of the first movie? It must be hard to find so many small actors for the halfling village and the birthday party.)
- I do not remember any romantic scene between a small and a normal person in a movie. There are a few small actors, but they are all humans with dwarfism.

Once again, I have no idea how they did it in the Lord of the Ring movies that halflings look "realistic".
PS: I hate to use the word realistic in a fantasy context, but I find nothing better.


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They did it with a little thing called forced perspective.

For example, in this scene where it looks like Frodo is sitting next to Gandalf, Elijah Wood is actually sitting a fair bit behind Sir Ian.
[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]

The actors who played the hobbits aren't very tall but none of them is quite that short. Filmmakers are very tricksy.


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Back in AD&D days, halflings just looked like smaller humans. You can see how they are depicted in that edition of monster manual. But at some point, the smaller races got stockier. Not as much as dwarves but definitely chunkier.

Gnomes got slightly fey like to separate themselves from halflings.

The reality is, currently halflings look like the animated version of LotR. I don’t know if that will change.

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About gnomes:
Sorry, what does fey like mean?
I know some examples for fey but I lack something in which they all look similar.
Fey are defined as magic humanoid creatures connected to nature or a specific place.
In which way do a fairy (tiny with insect wings), a nymph (like a very beautiful elf), a redcap (small and ugly) and a gnome look similar?


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Originally Posted by Madscientist
About gnomes:
Sorry, what does fey like mean?
I know some examples for fey but I lack something in which they all look similar.
Fey are defined as magic humanoid creatures connected to nature or a specific place.
In which way do a fairy (tiny with insect wings), a nymph (like a very beautiful elf), a redcap (small and ugly) and a gnome look similar?

Physically they look a bit more different than just a small person. They have pointed ears and I think d&d kept the large noses. They aren’t classified as fey. But the designers had to differentiate them from halflings somehow.

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Haflings are chill and cool, gnomes are fat and the opposite of chill.

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Niara Offline OP
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In this sense - a 'fey-like' appearance would be some visual traits and aesthetics that make them appear touched by magic; things that would not be completely naturally occurring on their own, or believable without a high-magic setting to support them. Whimsy or dream-like can come into play, but, for a classification - Gnomes might be depicted with body styles and proportions that do not *quite* look like any naturally evolving mammal might end up at, and who do not *quite* look fully believable, without there being magic involved, as opposed to halflings, who should. Gnomes in our art representations from 5th all seem to have been given slightly over-exaggerated facial features, even in their most 'realistic' depictions, for example.

I was trying to get some good looks at gnome examples yesterday while I was getting my save files moved forward, but I'll have to wait on commenting for them fully until they're actually released to use as playable, anything before then would be premature, since they're obviously still being worked on. And I promised myself I'd try to look at dwarves along the way as well, and havne't gotten to that yet... and I promised myself I'd get around to doing full class-by-class break downs and analyses too, and haven't gotten to that yet either. I've got a lot still to do...

Today I was going to put together some analyses for certain encounters at a certain party... only to discover that they're all apparently broken right now and not displaying (I know Shadow and Astarion are in now, so they were the ones I planned for on the save file, but they aren't working now...), so I can't do the assessments. Instead, I'll get the branch save up to check on Minthara, which I believe is working fine still...

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Off topic:

I played Pathfinder Kingmaker. There it is explained that fey are creatures native to the first world, a chaotic plane. From the description I think powerful creatures can shape it almost at will, but it's more stable than Limbo where a wrong thought can undo the reality around you. Fey are "reborn" after some time when being killed in the first world, so they are often more careless than most mortals. Gnomes used to be fey a long time ago, but they lived in the material plane for so long that they lost this ability and became normal people.

Is this also true in DnD lore or is it different?


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It's not true word by word, but the general idea is the same. Elves and gnomes came from the Feywild/Faerie and were originally Fey, but lost most of their Feyness over time.

The nature of the Feywild and the Fey are left very hazy because they need to cover a lot of concepts, from literal nature spirits like dryads nymphs to pint-sized winged Tinklebells and other trickster spirits to regal Mabs and Gentlemen With Thistledown Hair and Tom Bombadills. Fey are generally very undefined creatures in folklore, you won't find any easily categorified definition there beyond "you better not mess with them or they will mess you back something fierce -- actually they may still do that anyway so it's better to just not be noticed by them at all".


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This vid was pretty funny and talked a bit about feywild

beware of language



On a more informal or serious vid, this one actually talks about Eldrin which from what I can recall are the original elves that are from feywild in forgotten realms.



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Back to topic:
I looked at the PHB again, because it's the most official source about how races should look. At least I think so.

I agree that the official halflings looks terrible and I like the suggestions Niara made.

Gnomes are the other small race and they look like small elves. I like the official gnome and warlock image. They are thin and they don't just look like small dwarves (many fantasy settings show dwarves and gnomes together as small underground people).
While the official halflings looks bad, I hope our player character gnome will look similar to the PHB version.


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Okay, one more to do after getting Minthara out of the way...

Hand Crossbows:

Previously, there were two hand crossbows available in the game - one on a dead adventurer just past the petrified drow in the underdark, and a second one on one of the dead duergar neat the skiff in the underdark. Unfortunately, a terminal bug existed that meant that if you dual-wielded the two hand crossbows, then, even though it did work, and you got the off-hand shot skill, stowing the weapons, bringing them out, changing equips or interacting with them at all in any way after that.... wold generally cause the game to crash. Getting them unequipped and un-breaking your save file was difficult. I had meant to include the dual-wielding poses in this analysis, because at the time the off-hand shot was using the 'throw item' animation... however, it seems that as of the most recent patch, the second hand crossbow has actually been removed from the game; at least, it was no longer there on any save file I brought tot he duergar ambush to retrieve it.

The crash was reported by many people who were excited to dual-wield crossbows, and so I'm sure it's being fixed, and this removal is the temporary fast solution to prevent the game crash while they sort it out. Unfortunately, this means I can't do the dual-wielding break down right now. With any luck, by the time it comes back, it'll be fixed up and refactored properly as well, fingers crossed.

So, just a single hand crossbow today. Of note, and others have pointed this out elsewhere too, but because of the way Larian have coded and designed the weapon-wielding interface right now, we can't actually use a hand crossbow and a shield - this is a viable and useful combination and absolutely something that we can do in the base rule,s and should be able to do here; it needs to be put in so we can, and hopefully if and when they do, we'll get nicely aligned and posed animations for doing so. Not yet, however.

Let's look at human-sized models first, as they're straight forward and easy In each image, the first pose is the ready animation, and the second is the recovery animation:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com] [Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

All poses are animated with no statics, and the alignment of the weapon is pretty good across the board here. As usual, there are slight but distinct pose differences between the male and female stances; males are broader stances, and sharper, more dynamic, while female poses are softer and more fluid. It's pretty subtle, and only the fact that there are some actual arm position differences make it certain that that differences aren't just incidental to the models. The hand under the elbow doesn't sit right, and is floating, but other than that these poses are pretty good. Quite acceptable really.

For small-sized models, it's less neat and clean, sadly:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The weapon alignments are pretty off across the board - not wildly so, compared to other weapons ,but distinctly out of alignment all the same. the first images in this pair are the ready poses for male and female halflings... or they might be. They adopt that pose for a fraction of a second when you ready to shoot, but then 'snap' down to the second image - a pose we all recognise. This is clearly just a code bug causing them to drop to a place-holder pose; we've seen it elsewhere, and it's clearly not intended, especially when the pose they go to before that, for a moment, is actually a hand crossbow pose. That said, there is no difference at all between male and female here, not even subtly - this seems to be another place where female halflings are using the male set by accident. The hand misalignment on the elbow is worse than it is for human-sized models, but other than that, this pose and animation looks pretty good on them... if only they'd actually use it.

For male halflings, they move cleanly to their recovery pose (the third image) after shooting - complete with cute little sheathing animation - and from the front angle it doesn't look bad, though again, hand misalignment pushing their hand through their arm instead of supporting it. Female halflings move from the sheathing animation to the pose shown in the third image for them, which looks a lot like the human-sized female recovery pose, however, they only hold it for a fraction of a second, before 'snapping' again to adopt the same pose as the males... or almost the same pose?

Beacause here's the thing: as much as this looks like the female halfligns are adopting one pose made for them, and then snapping to the male pose by mistake... let's have a look at it:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Scratch! Scratch, I love you and you're a good boy, but please get out of my screenshots while I'm working!

Ahem...

Even though female halflings snap to this pose after a moment, and it doesn't seem like their intended pose, it actually works a LOT better on them than it does on the male halflings. Male halflings look okay in their recovery pose, from the front and slight side angles - which they were probably reviewed from - but if you look side on, we can see that they are grossly over-balanced. This is not a stable pose that they could actually hold, no matter what side you look from, it doesn't work. Their centre of balance is miles out. They either need to bring their centre of gravity forward, over their feet, or the foot stance needs to be moved back to give them better balance; having them lean forward slightly, while shifting the feet so that one if substantially further back then the other would more or less fix this, as one suggestion.

But if we look at the female halflings, it's not actually the same; Their pose is solid and firm, their centre of gravity is excellent: they look Good in this pose.

So, it's hard to guess at exactly what's going on here. Honestly, I can see that the female halflings briefly use a version of the human-sized female recovery pose... but the one they snap to afterwards actually looks better on them and I'd prefer it. On the males, it doesn't work and needs to be fixed, however.

That's it for hand crossbows, at least as much as I can test until we get a second hand crossbow back in the game. Overall, these sets are pretty good; they don't need a lot of work at all, certainly not compared to others.

That's probably all for the small-sized model animation and pose break downs for now; short of finding more anomalies in particular cut scenes, which I'm still scanning for, I think I've covered everything else, but that may be it until the next patch gives us another update on things.

Joined: Oct 2020
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You give that dog some attention right now!

Last edited by Dexai; 12/01/21 09:47 AM.

Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Sep 2015
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Joined: Sep 2015
- Last time I played was before the latest patch, there I could equip a hand crossbow in both hands. But the offhand crossbow was shown as action (not bonus action) so I never used them and had a normal crossbow instead.
- Is the relative size of halfling and dog correct? If yes I want them to ride on the dog.


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Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
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