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Originally Posted by Dexai
Mazzy is the halfling Fighter who doesn't get to be a Paladin because of 2ed rules, but who is pretty much a Paladin.
Mazzy in BG2 is the perfect example of why rules should be broken sometimes, just as much with 5e as with 2e.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Dexai
Mazzy is the halfling Fighter who doesn't get to be a Paladin because of 2ed rules, but who is pretty much a Paladin.
Mazzy in BG2 is the perfect example of why rules should be broken sometimes, just as much with 5e as with 2e.
She is also an excellent example why rules mustn't be broken. She works perfectly as she is with unique abilities.

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Originally Posted by Bruh
She is also an excellent example why rules mustn't be broken. She works perfectly as she is with unique abilities.

OR rules need adjustments if there are situations in which they work poorly.

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I think there will definitely be a tiefling as a companion. Probably the one from Avernus that the Tyr group wanted us to decapitate. She has the worm and a story of wanting to escape from her captors. I know she brushed off the chance to join but I bet we bump into her later.

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Originally Posted by greenshep
I think there will definitely be a tiefling as a companion. Probably the one from Avernus that the Tyr group wanted us to decapitate. She has the worm and a story of wanting to escape from her captors. I know she brushed off the chance to join but I bet we bump into her later.
You're absolutely correct! Dataminers have found that she is an upcoming companion, and she's the only one of the three they've found with recorded voice lines right now. she seems cool.


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Originally Posted by Bruh
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Dexai
Mazzy is the halfling Fighter who doesn't get to be a Paladin because of 2ed rules, but who is pretty much a Paladin.
Mazzy in BG2 is the perfect example of why rules should be broken sometimes, just as much with 5e as with 2e.
She is also an excellent example why rules mustn't be broken. She works perfectly as she is with unique abilities.

This is actually a good point. The main reason why people remember Mazzy so fondly is her heart of a paladin even though she could never become one. If she was an actual paladin, her story would be non-existent. People love to say the journey is what’s important but then change when the outcome doesn’t meet their expectations.

Mazzy’s story was all about the great journey and it was great. I loved that little halfling and her heart of honor and valor.

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Originally Posted by greenshep
I think there will definitely be a tiefling as a companion. Probably the one from Avernus that the Tyr group wanted us to decapitate. She has the worm and a story of wanting to escape from her captors. I know she brushed off the chance to join but I bet we bump into her later.

There’s no real good side on that quest. So I will continue my journey as a murder hobo and kill both sides.

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Originally Posted by Bruh
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Dexai
Mazzy is the halfling Fighter who doesn't get to be a Paladin because of 2ed rules, but who is pretty much a Paladin.
Mazzy in BG2 is the perfect example of why rules should be broken sometimes, just as much with 5e as with 2e.
She is also an excellent example why rules mustn't be broken. She works perfectly as she is with unique abilities.
No. Being a true paladin and an imitation of one are not at all the same thing no matter how good the imitation. And Mazzy would be the first person to agree with this.

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I am definitely with the side that Mazzy, if she was a Paladin instead of a Fighter, would be a lot less interesting both narratively and charactively.


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Originally Posted by kanisatha
No. Being a true paladin and an imitation of one are not at all the same thing no matter how good the imitation. And Mazzy would be the first person to agree with this.

You don't get Mazzy. Mazzy is a paladin despite not being one. She is a fighter on the outside but she is a paladin on the inside to the points that she transcends the limitations of her own race. She is practically a paladin in all but name. Why else would she get those special abilities?
In fact I would argue that Mazzy is a better paladin then the baseline one, because for her it's a personal thing. Her skills and devotion are intertwined with her personality making her into something unique.
I kinda wish all companions had a unique personality-twist on their core class like that.
DA2 and Tyranny did this very well. Every companion had their very own personal talent tree, they weren't just cardboard cutouts.

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Originally Posted by Bruh
Originally Posted by kanisatha
No. Being a true paladin and an imitation of one are not at all the same thing no matter how good the imitation. And Mazzy would be the first person to agree with this.

You don't get Mazzy. Mazzy is a paladin despite not being one. She is a fighter on the outside but she is a paladin on the inside to the points that she transcends the limitations of her own race. She is practically a paladin in all but name. Why else would she get those special abilities?
In fact I would argue that Mazzy is a better paladin then the baseline one, because for her it's a personal thing. Her skills and devotion are intertwined with her personality making her into something unique.
I kinda wish all companions had a unique personality-twist on their core class like that.
DA2 and Tyranny did this very well. Every companion had their very own personal talent tree, they weren't just cardboard cutouts.
No, you're the one missing my point. Mazzy is a fighter and not a paladin because the game rules very arbitrarily and with no logical reason forces her to be that. It's the game rules forcing this on the character, not the character's story. That's the point. If the game rules allowed her to be a paladin, her character would've been written as a paladin.

The issue of a character who could be a paladin but chooses to not be one and instead chooses to be a fighter who behaves like a paladin, because that's what the character's story is all about, is an entirely separate issue. I agree that is an interesting character. But that is not what I am talking about here.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Bruh
Originally Posted by kanisatha
No. Being a true paladin and an imitation of one are not at all the same thing no matter how good the imitation. And Mazzy would be the first person to agree with this.

You don't get Mazzy. Mazzy is a paladin despite not being one. She is a fighter on the outside but she is a paladin on the inside to the points that she transcends the limitations of her own race. She is practically a paladin in all but name. Why else would she get those special abilities?
In fact I would argue that Mazzy is a better paladin then the baseline one, because for her it's a personal thing. Her skills and devotion are intertwined with her personality making her into something unique.
I kinda wish all companions had a unique personality-twist on their core class like that.
DA2 and Tyranny did this very well. Every companion had their very own personal talent tree, they weren't just cardboard cutouts.
No, you're the one missing my point. Mazzy is a fighter and not a paladin because the game rules very arbitrarily and with no logical reason forces her to be that. It's the game rules forcing this on the character, not the character's story. That's the point. If the game rules allowed her to be a paladin, her character would've been written as a paladin.

The issue of a character who could be a paladin but chooses to not be one and instead chooses to be a fighter who behaves like a paladin, because that's what the character's story is all about, is an entirely separate issue. I agree that is an interesting character. But that is not what I am talking about here.
No, you are the one who doesn't get it and it's pretty damn clear. Mazzy is already a paladin, she merely externally isn't so. In her heart she already is and she is rewarded for her devotion with special abilities. If anything Mazzy showcases how dedication and passion transcends limitations.

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Originally Posted by Dexai
I am definitely with the side that Mazzy, if she was a Paladin instead of a Fighter, would be a lot less interesting both narratively and charactively.

I'm on this side too. Mazzy is one of the most memorable paladins of all time precisely because she isn't a paladin.

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I want more than anything some very visually distinct party members for the last few slots as what we have now so far are very boring aesthetically imo. My personal want is something very striking and unusual, like a tall and maimed no-nonsense vulture headed Aarakocra paladin.

I would want him to embody a depiction that goes hard on the "good is not nice" angle. An older/middle aged paladin who has no mercy or patience for evil, and who isn't an overly idealistic or impulsive fool. A "good guy" who actually comes off as intimidating, smart, hard to fool, and scary. More a Judge Dredd or Rorschach than the old boyscout idea of paladins.

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Originally Posted by Nivv
I want more than anything some very visually distinct party members for the last few slots as what we have now so far are very boring aesthetically imo. My personal want is something very striking and unusual, like a tall and maimed no-nonsense vulture headed Aarakocra paladin.

I would want him to embody a depiction that goes hard on the "good is not nice" angle. An older/middle aged paladin who has no mercy or patience for evil, and who isn't an overly idealistic or impulsive fool. A "good guy" who actually comes off as intimidating, smart, hard to fool, and scary. More a Judge Dredd or Rorschach than the old boyscout idea of paladins.
I think that the game has done a pretty good job of twisting tropes like this so far. If the datamined character who is presumed to be a paladin is, in fact, a paladin, you may get your wish.


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What as the datamine?

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Okay since we are all bringing out our stupid, dumb stuff that we want, then here's mine:
I want a lizardfolk barbarian or a lizardfolk druid companion. I would actually prefer a cleric, but we already have SH for that. Maybe a lizardfolk ranger could also work but I'm not so sure about that.

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Originally Posted by Innateagle
I'm replaying BG1 with the NPC banter mod and i'd trade Gale, Wyll and Astarion for my man Kivan so quick. For Imoen too. Wisdom and (non-malicious) light-heartedness are definetely missing from the current companions, especially the former.

What exactly isn't light hearted or wise about Gale, he's the wisest character in the party, even if you respond to him in a serious tone he finds away to fit a joke in

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Originally Posted by Vallis
Originally Posted by Innateagle
I'm replaying BG1 with the NPC banter mod and i'd trade Gale, Wyll and Astarion for my man Kivan so quick. For Imoen too. Wisdom and (non-malicious) light-heartedness are definetely missing from the current companions, especially the former.

What exactly isn't light hearted or wise about Gale, he's the wisest character in the party, even if you respond to him in a serious tone he finds away to fit a joke in
>wise
>ends up with a timebomb in his body
Yeah I think I'll pass.

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