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Having potential and being something are sadly very different things.. but I agree, a lot of the improvements this game needs to be more than a simple cheese-feast like DOS2 are very easy to implement and on top of that contrary to Larian's features tested for balance.

Willingness is the big issue here. If they really wanted they could have corrected already a lot of things because I serisouly doubt the code for AI action prioritisation is that hard to adjust once you go back to the action economy of D&D (which is mostly like a simple variable value change from using bonus actions to use full actions). But we will see. If it doesn't come in the next two updates than its most probably because Larian doesn't want to go back to the proper rules.

I honestly hope they will make the changes. I want this game to be a success not just because I paid the full price for it, but because I want to see Larian succeed. Still I think they have a lot of deep rooted design issues with their games where they fall short of expectations with little room for improvement as they stick by their philosophies from DOS2. BG3 should have been an attempt to do things differently and not constantly fall back to crutches from DOS when it comes to world design, encounter design and companions. As long as they are not willing to try something new there isn't much growth left.

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so on one hand its a cheese fest on the other hand its too balanced?
wew lads, what is it now?

id point out that exactly this kind of wishy washy complaining led to barrels beeing nerfed

also about you casuals: if 5e, the braindead critical role insert wojak.ping here version of the game, is too complicated for you maybe RPGs arent for you.
i dont see why everyone else should suffer if you literaly cannot be arsed to read how the game works.

This isnt pathfinder kingmaker where the game throws a spide swarm at you within 5 minutes of playing that you literaly cannot beat (unless you read what the NPCs tell you, lets not kid ourseles)

If you realy are not smart enaugh to grasp spell points, play a fighter as they are literaly braindead, or wait till paladins are released so the only thing you need to keep track of is how many times you can smite people.

Last edited by Sordak; 01/01/21 03:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by Sordak
if 5e, the braindead critical role insert wojak.ping here version of the game, is too complicated for you maybe RPGs arent for you.
Maybe this would be more impactful if BG3 actually followed 5e instead of being this DOS homebrew.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
[quote=DuskHorseman]What would be your reaction if Aragorn started eating the head of a pig during a fight in the LOTR ? (Video game, Books, film, choose your medium)
Wouldn't it be ridiculous ?

I remember Boromir ate a few arrows during that one fight


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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I kind of like how Poe Deadfire dealt with that. When you start a new game you can have certain RPG hardcore modes turned on or off as challenges. Like having limited rests / no combat food. Or daily ability restrictions, or lighting impacting your viewing area a lot more etc...
This sounds perfect to me. I like having unlimited rests but others hate it. This way everyone can select what they like.

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Originally Posted by Icelyn
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I kind of like how Poe Deadfire dealt with that. When you start a new game you can have certain RPG hardcore modes turned on or off as challenges. Like having limited rests / no combat food. Or daily ability restrictions, or lighting impacting your viewing area a lot more etc...
This sounds perfect to me. I like having unlimited rests but others hate it. This way everyone can select what they like.

I'm not sure people don't like having unlimited rests.

The problem is that at the moment, resting has no cost and/or no consequences.
(i.e specific ration consumption, the possibility of a random encounter during the travel to the camp, the need to find a specific spot, the risks of respawn or to be surprised while sleeping in a dungeon,...)

2 free HP potions per day and per character would nearly be the same than actual short rests.

Limited short rest is just a bandage on a broken mechanic... Which is better than nothing but it still hurt.
I guess that's what many of us think if I trust what I read everywhere players give feedbacks about the game.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 01/01/21 05:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Originally Posted by Clawfoot
I've been disappointed. The atmosphere/vibe of the game feels wrong. Larian made it too much like Divinity with non-stop comedy and campiness. The NPCs behave like they're in a movie that deliberately cast the very worst actors in the industry, with acting so cringeworthy and hammy that it's painful to watch. While the original BG series had room for comic relief and over-the-topness, this game seems to have almost nothing other than that. Everything is cranked up to 11, nothing is down to earth. Every part of BG3 comes off like it was designed by someone whose main goal was to make things as extreme and unusual as possible. I really prefer my fantasy settings to be tempered against a backdrop of realism, and BG3 utterly fails to be a believable experience. It ruins any chance of immersion for me.

And then it's just too similar to D:OS in all aspects. It feels like playing a D&D mod for D:OS2. The looks, the controls, the playstyle, the way you interact with the gameplay environment; Larian really didn't do enough to make the game feel different. Imagine if Bethesda had made Cyberpunk2077 and it was literally just Skyrim set in Night City, with Skyrim controls and mechanics and everything. Disappointing, to say the least.

Finally, the combat is terrible. Just profoundly unenjoyable. Part of that comes down to the fact that 5e is a tabletop game that translates inelegantly into a turn-based video game experience, but Larian could have alleviated that somewhat by not restricting the party size to four. With just four party members, the player just doesn't get to do enough during fights. Often you sit there for minutes waiting for a turn, and then you get to do one thing with one character and it's time to wait again. I believe Larian will heavily tone down the mindboggingly terrible "elemental surfaces" stuff in time for release, so that's not something I'm too worried about, but combat as a whole is so clunky and boring.



So true and has been said over and over and over again. Yet larian doesnt even comment on most of the critics and avoids any participation on a dialog on this matter.

I mean yes. maybe cuz so many ppl think it's fine and game still looks cool. lol Right now game have mostly positive reviews


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
I mean yes. maybe cuz so many ppl think it's fine and game still looks cool. lol Right now game have mostly positive reviews
Is "mostly positive reviews" enough for a mainline BG game though?
Considering the legacy this game inherited when they chose this title, anything below widespread critical acclaim and consensual game of the year would be a disaster.
Have you ever seen a Zelda game with "mostly positive reviews"?

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EA reviews are not reliable in any direction. You have people that forgive everything because its EA and everything will be fixed as well as people saying 'OMG THERE ARE BUGS, I WANT REFUNDDDSS!!!'... so I wouldn't take them at face value and not really worry about them 'if they are mostly positive' or what 'score' they have.

Question is though what Larian will take note of and here I'm afraid its going to be mainly gathered statistics instead of dealing with the feedback that's worded. Because its faster and people like to look at numbers as 'facts' for their own opinions...

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Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

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Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

The game is very hard and frustrating for a normal game mode if you don't use backstab, highground advantages and jump.
If you use them it become easy.
If you add barrelmancy, poison, dipping, eating each turn, shove,... It become very easy.

You should try different playthrough and different mechanics limitation to understand how the game difficulty is(n't) balanced.
Everything is made arround Larian's homebrew.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 02/01/21 08:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

The game is very hard and frustrating for a normal game mode if you don't use backstab, highground advantages and jump.
If you use them it become easy.
If you use barrelmancy, poison, dipping, eating each turn, shove,... It become very easy.

You should try different playthrough and different mechanics limitation to understand how the game difficulty is(n't) balanced.
Everything is made arround Larian's homebrew.

This is true. Larian expects you to use their special mechanics to win (imo-cheese). If you try to stick with 5e rules, you are handicapping yourself, especially since the monsters use Larian mechanics to the fullest.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

The game is very hard and frustrating for a normal game mode if you don't use backstab, highground advantages and jump.
If you use them it become easy.
If you use barrelmancy, poison, dipping, eating each turn, shove,... It become very easy.

You should try different playthrough and different mechanics limitation to understand how the game difficulty is(n't) balanced.
Everything is made arround Larian's homebrew.

This is true. Larian expects you to use their special mechanics to win (imo-cheese). If you try to stick with 5e rules, you are handicapping yourself, especially since the monsters use Larian mechanics to the fullest.

Several of the "special mechanics" are 5e already, Coating your weapon with poison is the same mechanic as dipping your weapon in fire but gives the player more versatility to overcome damage reduction (if DR is even a thing anymore). Backstab is a buffed version of flanking, during a flank with two characters vs one they would be considered flatfooted and rogues would gain sneak attack.

Height advantage, explosive barrels, etc. sure you got me on that. There's a huge thread already on height advantage and barrelmancy has been nerfed already along with basic spell's doing additional floor effects.

There is actually a big problem with 5e rules where it is way to easy to break a spell that requires concentration. There is no concentration skill nor is feats as frequent as they used to be in 3.5 or pathfinder. Which both would buff the ability to stay focused on the spell while in battle. With the lackluster focus on concentration in the rules, those spells become more of a waste of time and unnecessary feature.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Several of the "special mechanics" are 5e already, Coating your weapon with poison is the same mechanic as dipping your weapon in fire but gives the player more versatility to overcome damage reduction (if DR is even a thing anymore). Backstab is a buffed version of flanking, during a flank with two characters vs one they would be considered flatfooted and rogues would gain sneak attack.

Height advantage, explosive barrels, etc. sure you got me on that. There's a huge thread already on height advantage and barrelmancy has been nerfed already along with basic spell's doing additional floor effects.

There is actually a big problem with 5e rules where it is way to easy to break a spell that requires concentration. There is no concentration skill nor is feats as frequent as they used to be in 3.5 or pathfinder. Which both would buff the ability to stay focused on the spell while in battle. With the lackluster focus on concentration in the rules, those spells become more of a waste of time and unnecessary feature.

It takes a full action to coat a weapon. BG3 you can dip and attack in the same turn.

The variant flanking rule requires two characters in opposite sides. In BG3 you just need to move behind them. No other character needed.

Ground effects are still plentiful with special arrows available everywhere. Special arrows already do additional damage, they don’t need to have more effects.

Concentration is a balance against OP spells. I won’t say it’s perfect but it’s not as broken as you say. Otherwise we go back to old editions where the party has half a dozen buffs before engaging.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

The game is very hard and frustrating for a normal game mode if you don't use backstab, highground advantages and jump.
If you use them it become easy.
If you use barrelmancy, poison, dipping, eating each turn, shove,... It become very easy.

You should try different playthrough and different mechanics limitation to understand how the game difficulty is(n't) balanced.
Everything is made arround Larian's homebrew.

This is true. Larian expects you to use their special mechanics to win (imo-cheese). If you try to stick with 5e rules, you are handicapping yourself, especially since the monsters use Larian mechanics to the fullest.

Several of the "special mechanics" are 5e already, Coating your weapon with poison is the same mechanic as dipping your weapon in fire but gives the player more versatility to overcome damage reduction (if DR is even a thing anymore). Backstab is a buffed version of flanking, during a flank with two characters vs one they would be considered flatfooted and rogues would gain sneak attack.

Height advantage, explosive barrels, etc. sure you got me on that. There's a huge thread already on height advantage and barrelmancy has been nerfed already along with basic spell's doing additional floor effects.

There is actually a big problem with 5e rules where it is way to easy to break a spell that requires concentration. There is no concentration skill nor is feats as frequent as they used to be in 3.5 or pathfinder. Which both would buff the ability to stay focused on the spell while in battle. With the lackluster focus on concentration in the rules, those spells become more of a waste of time and unnecessary feature.

I can't agree with that.

Coating your weapon with poison is fine... But a+ 5D6 poison at level 4 is not to me. In my opinion the poison should add 1D4 or something like that and the 5D6 poison should be something we find maximum once or twice during the game (the kind of item you never use except maybe when you fight the final boss).
Coating your weapon with poison should also cost an action or a bonus action.

Dipping doesn't include any coating.
Dipping should be fine, but if you had to coat your weapon with a "rare" item (maybe not rare but expensive, I don't know but we shouldn't be able to use this so easily everytime).
Coating in combats should at least cost a bonus action and dipping an action so you can use your full turn to do it.
Damages are fine to me and aren't OP. The way you can have those additionnal damages is.
This would also give a utility to a real and normal fire sword (which is not "+1D4 damage + if you're standing on fire you deal another +1D6 damages or another shit like that)

Backstab is absolutely not a "buff".
Backstab is nearly a free advantage while you need to create specific conditions to flank.
I'll be so glad they remove their custom backstab to add the optional flanking rules. This would greatly increase the synergy between characters and the usefulness of melee characters.

High ground bonus wouldn't be a problem to me if it was a reasonable bonus. A +1 bonus allow us to control our %to hit a little bit more and increase the value of good positions. Advantages for highground bonus is way too much, break the rules of D&D (see the topic you're talking about) and totally determine the way combats happen.

About concentration it shouldn't be hard to find an easy mechanic to improve 5e.
In exemple a saving throw with a higher DD (not sure how it work in BG3, it doesn't appear in the log).

I guess there are many place in D&D for custom additionnal rules but they have to be balanced arround everything else. At the moment everything Larian choose to add is way too powerfull and every encounter are defined by those few mechanics.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 02/01/21 08:30 PM.
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@Shunter
Interesting if it takes a full action to coat your weapon with poison, whats the action in BG3 to actually coat your weapon. Yes flanking requires two people, why I said it was a buffed version, since it still requires you to be behind the person minus your ally on the opposite side.

I put etc. in cause I didn't want to list all the stupid junk I couldn't remember off the top of my head, example arrow effects.

Concentration is broken, when you cast a spell that requires concentration and lose it the next round from random crap more times than you don't it becomes a waste of time and space. Especially when some spells don't require a DC check and you just lose.

Older editions yes had tons of buffs, Morale, dodge, basic, enhancement, etc. Some came from magic weapons, some came from barbarians screaming in battle, others were naturally gifted / trained. Where is this coming from? What I was talking about was concentration not the amount of spells you can have active at one time.....

@Max I looked up poisons a while back they only go up along with price. So a 5d6 would be expensive as hell. Been a while though, I'd have to relook it up to actually get the info. An ya, dipping doesn't include coating but they generally are one and the same. At least if you take a step back and look at the feature, they work the same giving a small additional damage bonus with DR bypass. I have no clue if both can be applied at the same time but I would imagine no.

Already resaid what I thought on backstab above.

I really don't want to get into the additional features like height advantage, there is a thread on that already.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

The game is very hard and frustrating for a normal game mode if you don't use backstab, highground advantages and jump.
If you use them it become easy.
If you add barrelmancy, poison, dipping, eating each turn, shove,... It become very easy.

You should try different playthrough and different mechanics limitation to understand how the game difficulty is(n't) balanced.
Everything is made arround Larian's homebrew.

Im 104 hours in at this stage - I agree some encounters are very challenging but thats what makes it so enjoyable, a sense of achievement - I tend to use as little Larian rules as possible but I do use the jump to get out of attacks of opportunity in a tight spot, dont use barrelmancy at all (apart from shooting the wrong one & blowing myself to pieces) . I use highground when it makes sense & I dont long rest pretty much until im out of options.

But thats just me playing it how I want to & I do believe some of the tougher encounters may be different by the full release of the game i.e you can be past level 4 potentially for these areas - or we may have to live with the Larian game design & play it how you best enjoy it - the more I play it the more you can see Larian trying to get this to appeal to a wide audience & from a financial & sales success perspective thats a smart move. Do I want to see it watered down so far it dont feel like D&D?.... certainly not but currently it has a huge D&D vibe for me.

Last edited by Tarorn; 02/01/21 09:05 PM.
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Joined here just to add my 2 cents. As a huge fan of BG2, I don't see how BG3 could live up to the hype. From the moment of early announcement, I pretty much knew that this project would be more of a DOS continuation. BG2 set a very unique mark back 20 years ago. To expect this level of depth, character class system, lore, combat system, loot system, story, music, atmosphere, in a modern game? You must be kidding me. DOS games are ok as a separate breed and I have plenty of friends who liked the series. But I'm yet to see a single person with a genuine addiction to replay the game several times. What I'm seeing today pretty much confirms my suspicions. BG3 is just another DOS remake with some features added/removed. What really annoys me is that this is going to taint the very name of Baldur's Gate. Similar to Diablo 3 vs Diablo 2. Why couldn't they just come up with a different title, unrelated to BG? Is it always all about money? Or just add some new names to the hall of fame created by talented people long gone?

BG2 is a masterpiece

BG3 is just another game, one of many decent DnD attempts - IceWind Dale, NeverWinter Nights, Dragon Age. You can inflate its scores to 95% on steam, but you can't make it a masterpiece. Certainly not worth 80$ in my opinion. I'd much rather replay NVN at this point.

But if, once fully refined and polished, it changes to the point of challenging the best games of its genre - I might rethink my view. Been waiting for 20+ years to see a true BG2 evolution. Still waiting.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
There is actually a big problem with 5e rules where it is way to easy to break a spell that requires concentration. There is no concentration skill nor is feats as frequent as they used to be in 3.5 or pathfinder. Which both would buff the ability to stay focused on the spell while in battle. With the lackluster focus on concentration in the rules, those spells become more of a waste of time and unnecessary feature.
There is actually a feat that gives advantage on saving throws to maintain concentration called War Caster. I'd say it should be implemented on a full release, but at this point I don't know if some feats will be left out on purpose.

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If that's true, it would generally fix the problem. Guess it depends on level and implementation.

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