Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2020
Banned
OP Offline
Banned
Joined: Nov 2020
Its been something that just so weighed ever so lightly on my mind.
" Why the HELL is no one afraid of an actual Devil following us around? "
For testing purposes and conveniences sake we all just ignored this, right? Right? grin
That will not be just the norm that no one in Fae'run will care, right? ^^


So here is my quick fix suggestion: Just make it so that their invisibility is automatically activated.
Or that its actually even more -> as if they are in a wierd limbo between material and being in the Hells while they follow us around.
Imagine some dude walking past you,
and then you hear this wierd flying noise or walking sound.

People would think the Warlock is haunted at least.

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
I don't know about NPCs, but companions hate summonings by the the Warlock. Occasionally you see a small popup list of everyone getting a -5 attitude towards the caster (Wyll or the main character). Presumably if you did that near the NPCs in the grove, they'd have the same issue. Maybe not the Tieflings, they are part infernal themselves after all and spent time in Avernus so saw imps before. The druids would likely not like it much, though one could say they've been putting up with the Tieflings who they think are devils too.

I wish they'd fix the companions reaction though. Not liking it the first time, fine. But to keep hating on it makes playing a Warlock difficult to keep the companions' attitudes above neutral. Not to mention anyone at camp tends to be hostile if you come back with *any* summoned creature in tow.

Joined: Nov 2020
Banned
OP Offline
Banned
Joined: Nov 2020
Really? °_°
Never noticed that.
But I mean in general DEVILS have this giant bad reputation,
they are like the worst of the worst no matter their size and such...
and then we just walk around with one and nobody says ANYTHING. ^_^

Especially Druids are like "everything must be natural"-Hippies, right?

If a Devil is not something unnatural for the planets standarts, then what is?
Openly siding with a Devil or making a pact with him, the equivalent in our own world be to say an ISIS member is one's best pal. grin
Nobody trusts them ( until they want help from one wink ) and publicy its like everybody agrees...
... and then we, an outsider, walk in this united community of Druids and they just shrug it off. Yeaaaaaaaah right. grin


But hey even the Tiefs have a reason to cast us out!
Tiefs are seen as low-class, or "trash Devils" by more pureblooded or higher class Devils right?
And the Devils will not openly tolerate anyone deserting this... eternal War thingy, right? grin

If Tieflings see someone running around WITH A FULLBLOODED DEVIL, no matter how tiny, isnt that like really, really bad in terms for their location? ^^

Apparently the Erinyes could just send a group of 10 over,
with their super high base stats, maybe even 15 or even 20 and try to either kill or force every Tiefling back into the 9 Hells, or not!?
The Druids might even cheer them on for that -> if the Erinyes can convince the Druids that they are still non-fallen Celestials helping out some mortals. grin


  • I think being a Tiefling is way more hardcore and dangerous than LarianStudio thinks.

Joined: Nov 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Thieves Rule
I don't know about NPCs, but companions hate summonings by the the Warlock. Occasionally you see a small popup list of everyone getting a -5 attitude towards the caster (Wyll or the main character). Presumably if you did that near the NPCs in the grove, they'd have the same issue. Maybe not the Tieflings, they are part infernal themselves after all and spent time in Avernus so saw imps before. The druids would likely not like it much, though one could say they've been putting up with the Tieflings who they think are devils too.

I wish they'd fix the companions reaction though. Not liking it the first time, fine. But to keep hating on it makes playing a Warlock difficult to keep the companions' attitudes above neutral. Not to mention anyone at camp tends to be hostile if you come back with *any* summoned creature in tow.


I noticed this as well and was wondering why. After all it makes no sense for them to have such a reaction especially every time you summon your imp or what have you. After all they tolerate a Vamp in your party and a devil showing up trying to get you into a pact. I played a warlock once but when I seen the continued reaction from the other party members every time I summoned my imp I decided to re-roll my Tav

Last edited by DragonMaster69; 05/01/21 05:49 AM.
Joined: Jun 2020
addict
Online Content
addict
Joined: Jun 2020
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
they are like the worst of the worst no matter their size and such...

No, that's not accurate.

Quote
Especially Druids are like "everything must be natural"-Hippies, right?

No, that's not accurate.

Quote
Openly siding with a Devil or making a pact with him, the equivalent in our own world be to say an ISIS member is one's best pal. grin

No, that's not accurate.

Quote
Tiefs are seen as low-class, or "trash Devils" by more pureblooded or higher class Devils right?

No, that's not accurate. Tieflings are not hellspawn. They have never been hellspawn. Their original entry in their very first official publication made no mention whatsoever of the hells or the abyss, and cast them as plane-touched. they have always been plane-touched.

Quote
And the Devils will not openly tolerate anyone deserting this... eternal War thingy, right? grin

No, that's not accurate.

Quote
If Tieflings see someone running around WITH A FULLBLOODED DEVIL, no matter how tiny, isnt that like really, really bad in terms for their location? ^^

No, it isn't, not necessarily. It may be, but not necessarily. Many arcane casters use imps or quasits as familiars, and have done for many, many years. It says nothing about their own alignment or goals.

Quote
with their super high base stats, maybe even 15 or even 20 and try to either kill or force every Tiefling back into the 9 Hells, or not!?

No, that's not accurate. Tieflings are not from the hells.

Joined: Nov 2020
Banned
OP Offline
Banned
Joined: Nov 2020
^
That post... seems not accurate (with information).
Just disagreeing and providing not a short drop of info as to why, brilliant. wink
Well - for people officially not being Devils, the people of Fae'run (the Druids too) call them Hellspawn & Foulblood, or a Devilchild quite often.


And from what I have seen a Tiefling is simply a 3/4 Mortal and 1/4 Devil, bloodline-wise.
Enough infernal heritage to make them look kinda Fiendish, but they have no destructive or infernal Urges that truly control them.
Their personalitys shape accordingly to how the world treats them.

While a Cambion seems to think of itself as superior because of its devlish heritage and is most likely to side with the Lords of the Hells.

Joined: Jun 2020
addict
Online Content
addict
Joined: Jun 2020
I tried providing evidence and citing official lore sources last time; you didn't care or listen. What reason have I to suppose you would this time?

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Niara
I tried providing evidence and citing official lore sources last time; you didn't care or listen. What reason have I to suppose you would this time?

Aren't you misremembering Bruh as Baldu?


Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
they are like the worst of the worst no matter their size and such...

No, that's not accurate.

Devils are definitely among the worst of the worst no matter their size. Followed maybe only by Demons, Daemons, and Unspeakable Things From Even Further Beyond Our Imagination That We Can't Even Perceive. And mimes.


Originally Posted by Niara
Quote
Especially Druids are like "everything must be natural"-Hippies, right?

No, that's not accurate.

While it's certainly correct that Druids are not necessarily hippies, infernal beings are 100% the kind of thing Druids are supposed to defend the world from, in my view.


Originally Posted by Niara
Quote
Openly siding with a Devil or making a pact with him, the equivalent in our own world be to say an ISIS member is one's best pal. grin

No, that's not accurate.

Not touching the joke, but it's certainly not a sign of good character.


Originally Posted by Niara
Quote
Tiefs are seen as low-class, or "trash Devils" by more pureblooded or higher class Devils right?

No, that's not accurate. Tieflings are not hellspawn. They have never been hellspawn. Their original entry in their very first official publication made no mention whatsoever of the hells or the abyss, and cast them as plane-touched. they have always been plane-touched.

Tieflings were literally claimed by the number one devil as his own.

And while Tieflings are not devil or demons in any way, they are certainly spawned by the hells. You know enough about Tieflings that I am certain you are aware that they became Lower-Plane-related by the second publication that featured them, when they were further split into Tieflings, Aasimar, and Genasi.


Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by Niara
Quote
And the Devils will not openly tolerate anyone deserting this... eternal War thingy, right? grin

No, that's not accurate.

It's pretty accurate. But I'm assuming what you're actually responding to is the insinuation that all Tieflings are deserters from the Blood War, right? Which isn't true by the way, @Baldu, because Tieflings aren't fiends and not part of the fiendish armies fighting there.


Originally Posted by Niara
Quote
If Tieflings see someone running around WITH A FULLBLOODED DEVIL, no matter how tiny, isnt that like really, really bad in terms for their location? ^^

No, it isn't, not necessarily. It may be, but not necessarily. Many arcane casters use imps or quasits as familiars, and have done for many, many years. It says nothing about their own alignment or goals.

That's one of the reason casters are feared though... A general propensaity towards seeking the aid, advice, and guidance of infernal beings.


Originally Posted by Niara
Quote
with their super high base stats, maybe even 15 or even 20 and try to either kill or force every Tiefling back into the 9 Hells, or not!?

No, that's not accurate. Tieflings are not from the hells.

This one is entirely correct. @Baldu -- Tieflings are mortals and only distantly related to the lower planes. The ones ingame, if I understand correctly, probably mostly used to be human until recently when the city they lived in got dragged into hell and every person with even the slightest drop of fiendish blood up and turned into a Tiefling or something.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Nov 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Nov 2020
To the original topic, maybe a fix to this would be that some characters have lower approval if you have a summon out, therefor trusting you less? Like many wizards and other magical beings wouldn't care but a druid or paladin might, and while they would not be outright hostile the lower approval would show they don't trust that? If the system was to be made more comprehensive, could apply to other types of summons like fey or such and summons added later. I do think the lack of reaction to the devil/demon can be... odd at times, even when considering how lower level fiends are often made into slaves and servants by wizards/warlocks, but I also don't want summoning type characters to get heavily penalized cause Summoning is the thing I love.

Joined: Jan 2017
G
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
G
Joined: Jan 2017
How about, instead of it just messing with the very fuzzy approval concept, it starts a conversation:
"Hey, aren't those the things that we just had to fight through to get out of the hells? Why are you bringing them here?"
"Oh, this one is harmless to us - I just use it for my work. Nothing to worry about." or "Oh, it's a fey - it just looks like an imp."
"Well you might not want to have that thing out in the open - it's kinda freaking people out."

Unexplained changes to already poorly explained numbers aren't helpful for letting the player know what's going on and why. Have a conversation.

Joined: Dec 2020
B
Banned
Offline
Banned
B
Joined: Dec 2020
Claiming that tieflings are not hellspawns is false. They are.
Tieflings all have infernal heritage, be it baatezu or tanar'ri, or yugoloth.
They are literal spawns of evil. And yeah, druids who are supposed protectors of nature, are not supposed to be happy about them, the same way they are not supposed to be happy about the encroachment of civilization on their own territory. Personally I think that the portrayal of druids as these very strange hippies who somehow always end up being diplomatic and nice is nonsensical.
But then tieflings being nice and an ethnic group of their very own is also nonsensical, because tieflings were supposed to be rare and often come about as the offsrping of 2 normal humans who have a devil or two up in their bloodlines.
Personally I feel like much of the race-hysteria could be resolved in the game if different races simply couldn't have babies together.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Bruh
Claiming that tieflings are not hellspawns is false. They are.
Tieflings all have infernal heritage, be it baatezu or tanar'ri, or yugoloth.

By the definition that every human with infernal bloodline that hasn't manifested in tieflinghood is, yes. By the definition of being fiends, no.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Jun 2020
addict
Online Content
addict
Joined: Jun 2020
Sorry, I'm tired and a little burned out, and I'm responding more waspishly than I should.

Tieflings aren't hellspawn - that's a racial slur. They are born on the material plane (generally), and are 'spawned' by mortal parents; elves, humans, dwarves, halflings etc., not by any hell-born creature. They *might* have a fiendish ancestor somewhere back along the line; *probably*, even. They don't necessarily have one... This is because they are plane-touched, and not fiends. Plane-touching can come about in a variety of ways, and direct siring and interbreeding is only one of them. If you don't know (and you won't in most cases), then by all means be cautious, but don't make assumptions. Almost no tiefling alive today decided to become one. Most were born that way with no say in the matter. It has no bearing on their individual personality or propensities towards good and evil, save in the way they are often treated (without just cause, usually) by ignorant or racist people. Characterising a tiefling as hellspawn is just a derogatory, and not something anyone who considers themselves a good person should engage in.

Yes, they are supposed to be less common; current world events explain the reason they aren't, right now. IT is true ,and an interesting aspect, theat they are often thought about as a race of peopl , but they aren't, truly.... they're just people who, by virtue of their existence don't have any kind of unified culture or history. A tiefling born to elven parents and raised by them would have elven values and customs, and halfling-born tiefling would have halfling culture and custom. Tieflings abandoned or raised from orphanhood often have no cultural background or norms at all, save those they developed in whatever city they grew up in. These would be interesting conversations and character-building explorations to go through - these are the kinds of things that should show up in racial dialogue tags. Not one-off racially-motivated remarks or insults.

The 'no matter how small' is the objectionable part; an imp is just an imp. I'd be far more concerned about someone I saw traveling the darkened streets of baldur's gate with a pacted red cap in tow ready to break some kneecaps, than I would a mage with an imp carrying their books. An imp is not the worst of the worst, and using one is not equivalent to wearing a sign saying that you're friends with terrorists. Someone commanding higher-order fiends would definitely be worthy of concern. Imps, not so much.

Druids must certainly defend the balance, in their personal view of it, and follow a version of whatever natural philosophy their particular circle holds. They are not "'everything must be natural' hippies."; that's ridiculous.

Bruh, if you met an aasimar would you automatically fall all over yourself to befriend them and treat them like an awesome person and presume the very best of them right off the bat without any evidence of the sort of person they are? Somehow I doubt you would; so why give the inverse of that to tieflings? If you would, then how would you feel about it when that aasimar shows you this really cool spot off the beaten track where they can break your legs and steal all of your stuff for being so gullible?

I'm not going to engage with this topic any more; I'm sorry for being aggressive. It's taking up too much of my time and energy, and I'm already being encouraged by people I trust to not engage with the forum discussions as much.

On Topic:

The reason people react badly to you summoning is becuase it's treated in the game design as an aggressive or hostile action, and people don't like you doing it near them. Non-standard summons also cause comments, but the attitude strikes come from summoning too close to a person's general proximity, or from a character seeing you do so to someone else. At least, that has been my experience of it so far. You get the same attitude strikes from throwing a damaging AoE spell close to an NPC, but not hitting them with it, I believe.

Joined: Nov 2020
Banned
OP Offline
Banned
Joined: Nov 2020
Thank you for your clarification, optimistically apocalyptic Fishman. grin


@more to the original meaning of this topic

As lore indicates there are 3 types of orders, or classes, that have a high problem with unholy or infernal beings.
° Paladins ( of course)
° Clerics ( which have always been less armored and more magical Paladins to me)
° Druids ( just like Clerics & Paladins they are enforcers of divine wills, but they tend to listen more to Deitys associated with nature )


Of course a shady Cleric of Shar like Edgyheart, or a "rogue Paladin" like Anders would probably not even blink when they see my Warlocks little Fiends.
But a whole group of Druids or a group of Tiefling refugees which are basically only on the run because of the Hells messed up their lifes?
I do not expect deaththreats and drawn weapons right away.

But not even a mentioning of the summoned Fiends?
It feels very lacking and immersion breaking to me.
Have our Warlocks justify themself.
Tieflings persuasion roll: " This one is my servant and I control it completely. It serves me, not the other way around. But if you hate to see it, I can send it back to the Hells for the meanwhile. "
Druids persuasion roll: " This is like a tool, a blade, or a Slave to me. It helped me to defend your Grove from the Goblin attack. It shall not be a thorn in your side. "

Making it invisible or force it to stay behind might make it easier though.
Something, anything! grin It is a bloody Devil after all.



Originally Posted by Niara
Tieflings aren't hellspawn - that's a racial slur.
>snort
I doubt many of this slur users do even know that but believe it to be so.
Makes me wonder if a Tiefling is born looking like one of is the appearance changing very quickly during its growth?

It seems a BaldursGate3 design choice to give them this "demonic eyes".
But this design is definitely not helping in having more clarity about the topic.
Everyone knows Jester of critical Role I guess. She feels a lot less "demonic" just by having "Humanoid eyes".

Last edited by JustAnotherBaldu; 06/01/21 04:17 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Niara
Sorry, I'm tired and a little burned out, and I'm responding more waspishly than I should.

Take care of yourself first and foremost, Ni. Don't overclock yourself for the sake of analysing computter game wink . I saw you mentioning similar in another thread and even though I think you are some of the most insightful regulars on here I do hope you don't wear yourself down.



Originally Posted by Niara
Tieflings aren't hellspawn - that's a racial slur. They are born on the material plane (generally), and are 'spawned' by mortal parents; elves, humans, dwarves, halflings etc., not by any hell-born creature. They *might* have a fiendish ancestor somewhere back along the line; *probably*, even. They don't necessarily have one... This is because they are plane-touched, and not fiends. Plane-touching can come about in a variety of ways, and direct siring and interbreeding is only one of them. If you don't know (and you won't in most cases), then by all means be cautious, but don't make assumptions. Almost no tiefling alive today decided to become one. Most were born that way with no say in the matter. It has no bearing on their individual personality or propensities towards good and evil, save in the way they are often treated (without just cause, usually) by ignorant or racist people. Characterising a tiefling as hellspawn is just a derogatory, and not something anyone who considers themselves a good person should engage in.

This feels like semantics to me, whether a fiend is personally involved in the origin of the bloodline or whether it's because of mystical circumstances they're still spawned by the Lower Planes and thus fit the descriptor of hellspawn.

I also feel that even if it's wrongheaded per se it's not relatable to racism and ignorance as in real world hate and ignorance when in-setting characters think of Tieflings as hellspawn or fiendish. Regardless of the individuals themelves Tieflings do bear a mark of the hells on them and people who can recognise that should fear and shun them. Anything else just completely dissolves the narrative of Tieflings being stigmatized and othered.


Originally Posted by Niara
Yes, they are supposed to be less common; current world events explain the reason they aren't, right now. IT is true ,and an interesting aspect, theat they are often thought about as a race of peopl , but they aren't, truly.... they're just people who, by virtue of their existence don't have any kind of unified culture or history. A tiefling born to elven parents and raised by them would have elven values and customs, and halfling-born tiefling would have halfling culture and custom. Tieflings abandoned or raised from orphanhood often have no cultural background or norms at all, save those they developed in whatever city they grew up in. These would be interesting conversations and character-building explorations to go through - these are the kinds of things that should show up in racial dialogue tags. Not one-off racially-motivated remarks or insults.

It would have been interesting if Larian had treated the Tieflings group as less like a nation and more like a community that's come together out of necessity where the some of people weren't even Tieflings before the events of Escape From New Dis City (if I understand things correctly). Less person-being-tired-of-casual-racism rolling their eyes about people in Elturel not treating them well (as if the people of Elturel had not just been through a major hell-related trauma) and more person-expressing-their-own-trauma-of-suddenly-becoming-Tieflinated, and if there were non-tiefling humans there who had found themselves exiled because they'd rather stay with their relatives than abandon them, and fractures between Old Blood Tieflings who were a community before the events and New Blood people who have become part of it since the Descent.

My favourite Tieflings (aside from Mattis obviously), on a related note, are the three friends arguing about whether they should stay or make their own way to BG; simply because they are the only example of drama or conflict within the group -- the only people that make the group seem alive.


Originally Posted by Niara
The 'no matter how small' is the objectionable part; an imp is just an imp. I'd be far more concerned about someone I saw traveling the darkened streets of baldur's gate with a pacted red cap in tow ready to break some kneecaps, than I would a mage with an imp carrying their books. An imp is not the worst of the worst, and using one is not equivalent to wearing a sign saying that you're friends with terrorists. Someone commanding higher-order fiends would definitely be worthy of concern. Imps, not so much.

I definitely disagree. Of course imps are just imps and only arch-devils are arch-devils -- but this is almost literally degrees in hell. Cavorting with fiends should worry and scare people. Showing up with one in tow should yield you glares, hushed whispers, cold shoulders, and bad reputation.


Originally Posted by Niara
On Topic:

The reason people react badly to you summoning is becuase it's treated in the game design as an aggressive or hostile action, and people don't like you doing it near them. Non-standard summons also cause comments, but the attitude strikes come from summoning too close to a person's general proximity, or from a character seeing you do so to someone else. At least, that has been my experience of it so far. You get the same attitude strikes from throwing a damaging AoE spell close to an NPC, but not hitting them with it, I believe.

This is a very good point, and I do think you hit the head of the nail on what's happening.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Dec 2020
B
Banned
Offline
Banned
B
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Niara
Tieflings aren't hellspawn - that's a racial slur.
Yes they are hellspawn. Also they are now a homogenous race of their own unlike before, so yes they are even more definitely hellspawn then before.
Also I just fell of my chair laughing.
Imagine this situation:
You die and end up going to hell where you are destined to eternally toil under an opressive regime of archdevils in an eternal torturous war against demons and constant plotting and one-upmanship amongst fiends.
BUT at least you are not racist.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, shit man, that's the hill you're going to die on? Okay xD

Last edited by Bruh; 06/01/21 12:07 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Bruh
Originally Posted by Niara
Tieflings aren't hellspawn - that's a racial slur.
Yes they are hellspawn. Also they are now a homogenous race of their own unlike before, so yes they are even more definitely hellspawn then before.
Also I just fell of my chair laughing.
Imagine this situation:
You die and end up going to hell where you are destined to eternally toil under an opressive regime of archdevils in an eternal torturous war against demons and constant plotting and one-upmanship amongst fiends.
BUT at least you are not racist.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, shit man, that's the hill you're going to die on? Okay xD
Hellspawn is a classification that does not apply to tieflings, and in fact does not exist in 5e outside of being an insult.

Tieflings are in fact planetouched

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tiefling

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hell_Spawn_(3.5e_Template)


Lover of non-haughty elves and non-smutty lesbian romance
"1404. I will not spoil the adventure's mandatory ambush by using the cheesy tactic of a "scout"." - From "Things Mr. Welch is no longer allowed to do in a (tabletop) RPG"
Joined: Dec 2020
B
Banned
Offline
Banned
B
Joined: Dec 2020
We can call them fiendspawn too. I will just stick to hellspawn though.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Bruh
Originally Posted by Niara
Tieflings aren't hellspawn - that's a racial slur.
Yes they are hellspawn. Also they are now a homogenous race of their own unlike before, so yes they are even more definitely hellspawn then before.
Also I just fell of my chair laughing.
Imagine this situation:
You die and end up going to hell where you are destined to eternally toil under an opressive regime of archdevils in an eternal torturous war against demons and constant plotting and one-upmanship amongst fiends.
BUT at least you are not racist.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, shit man, that's the hill you're going to die on? Okay xD

Nobody goes to hell for not using the word hellspawn.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Dec 2020
B
Banned
Offline
Banned
B
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Dexai
Originally Posted by Bruh
Originally Posted by Niara
Tieflings aren't hellspawn - that's a racial slur.
Yes they are hellspawn. Also they are now a homogenous race of their own unlike before, so yes they are even more definitely hellspawn then before.
Also I just fell of my chair laughing.
Imagine this situation:
You die and end up going to hell where you are destined to eternally toil under an opressive regime of archdevils in an eternal torturous war against demons and constant plotting and one-upmanship amongst fiends.
BUT at least you are not racist.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, shit man, that's the hill you're going to die on? Okay xD

Nobody goes to hell for not using the word hellspawn.
LoL Gotcha moment laugh
That's not what my point was though.

Last edited by Bruh; 06/01/21 02:50 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5