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Yeah, Solasta has implemented this pretty well. They've implemented the "shield spell as reaction" rule and implemented a Solasta version of war caster feat which allows you to take 10 hp of damage before having to make a concentration check so you get two chances to maintain concentration even before a check. My mage kept concentration even when being level drained by a vampire.

Also when BG3 allows us to roll for our stats, lots of us will have casters with insanely high constitution wink

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Concentration is broken, when you cast a spell that requires concentration and lose it the next round from random crap more times than you don't it becomes a waste of time and space. Especially when some spells don't require a DC check and you just lose.

It's particularly bad in BG3 because there's so much incidental damage. Five seconds into every fight, the whole world is on fire. In tabletop, you mostly just take damage if something actually swings at you or directs a spell at you. In this game, you're often taking ticks of environmental damage literally every turn of every fight unless you spend fully half of your action economy getting out of ground effects. This is one of the million ways in which BG3 feels just like Divinity and not at all like BG/D&D. Just like in Divinity, combat is often an annoying lightshow of random shit happening all over the place, except to make it even worse, you mostly just have one and a half action per turn and can't afford to spend them on countering the ridiculous battlefield clutter.

In Divinity, at least you had two or three actions per turn, or even more with certain builds, and it made more sense to devote some of your actions to putting out fires or teleporting away or whatever. Not that BG3 should break the 5e action economy, but Larian should have designed the fights and gameplay environment to accomodate it. Instead they literally just made Divinity with D&D mathematics under the hood, which is such a massive disappointment. I'm starting to think tiefling is the best race for everything just because of the fire resistance...

There are so many fights in this game that pretty much go like this:

Enemy shoots a fire arrow/grenade/whatever at you, covering the entire party.

You move out of the way so you aren't literally standing inside of a fire.

Enemy shoots another fire arrow at your new location, adding more fire.

You move away again. Half the battlefield is now a smoky blaze.

Whaddayaknow, the enemy shoots ANOTHER fire arrow at you and...

It's just such awful, brainless, uncreative design. It isn't fun, it isn't good gameplay, it isn't a meaningful challenge, it's just a game that trolls the player and is annoying on purpose. It's like Larian's idea of encounter design is to just make combat as irritating as possible, just as their idea of storytelling is to make everything as silly and camp as possible. It's what made the Divinity series unenjoyable for me, and while I had hoped that they would steer away from that when they moved to a different franchise, they proved to me that they don't know any other way to do it. What I had thought was a quirk of the Divinity series was in fact just the only way Larian knows how to design games. There's none of the suspense of BG combat, none of the believable environments, just cartoon gameplay and troll design.

Last edited by Clawfoot; 04/01/21 12:51 PM.
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Have you played the latest patch, Clawfoot? I only tested it a little bit myself, I'm currently waiting for new classes and whatnot to be added before I make another deep playthrough, but what I want to say is, when I tested the freshest version the environmental/surface damage seemed to have been diminished a bunch.


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Originally Posted by Dexai
Have you played the latest patch, Clawfoot? I only tested it a little bit myself, I'm currently waiting for new classes and whatnot to be added before I make another deep playthrough, but what I want to say is, when I tested the freshest version the environmental/surface damage seemed to have been diminished a bunch.
Yeah, I noticed this too. I think they only deal damage when you walk into them/start your turn there/end your turn there now, which has severely decreased the amount of damage they do.


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I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game is good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

Last edited by Sharet; 07/01/21 11:51 AM.
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Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.
I always appreciate seeing some positivity on these forums. Thank you.


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I agree, the game is good. I'm enjoying it a lot. Of course, there is always room for improvement, but I'm really glad, I buyed it.


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Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

I agree with your last sentence but not with all the message...
I don't find the game "good"or "fun" at the moment, especially if we're talking about combats (which is very important to me).

It has an incredible potential but combats are bad and absolutely not "strategy" to me (steam say "strategy").
If the strategy is always the same I don't call this a good strategy game.

+ I'm not very fun... Throwing fork and jumping everywhere don't make me laugh a lot...

Last edited by Maximuuus; 06/01/21 03:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

Yes to all that. Like @flyimar I'm happy I bought it. But I'm also happy that Maximuus is relentless in his push to get 5th rules in the game. The devs listened and the feedback worked.

Oh and I really like being able to throw a fork. Seriously. Makes it feel like tabletop.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

Yes to all that. Like @flyimar I'm happy I bought it. But I'm also happy that Maximuus is relentless in his push to get 5th rules in the game. The devs listened and the feedback worked.

Oh and I really like being able to throw a fork. Seriously. Makes it feel like tabletop.

This is not TT. This is a video game grin

I want more D&D in combats for a better strategy vidéo game but I don't want a TT simulator.

I.E I'll be so glad if they choose to remove (or give us an option to) those terrible, slow, intrusive, immersion breaking dice rolls during dialogs^^
I'm fine with throwing forks if you like it... Even if I guess u never use such things in... A video game...

Last edited by Maximuuus; 06/01/21 10:53 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I'm fine with throwing forks if you like it... Even if I guess u never use such things in... A video game...

Thanks smile There are things I prefer about Solasta and things I prefer about BG. One of the things I like about BG is the art and how interactive the environments are. In Ethel's the frog tea pot can picked up and it's either charming or terrifying depending on your interpretation of her and it. Not to bash on Solasta -- at all -- but when there are only one or two things on a map to interact with it lowers the immersion value of the game.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

Yes to all that. Like @flyimar I'm happy I bought it. But I'm also happy that Maximuus is relentless in his push to get 5th rules in the game. The devs listened and the feedback worked.

Oh and I really like being able to throw a fork. Seriously. Makes it feel like tabletop.

Complaints should have a limit, there are people who will always be dissatisfied.


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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
but when there are only one or two things on a map to interact with it lowers the immersion value of the game.

Yeah I agree with that.
Interractions with items and so on are great.

I find it a bit tedious at the moment because there are too many empty things to open and because the UI is really ugly when you "highlight" 10 items on a table at the same time.

But this is things that could easily be improved.

In exemple, it could be cool to highlight all full containers and not empty one.... (even if you can interract with all of them)
It could be usefull to "write the name" of potions and other usefull items but just highlight forks, knife and "decorative" items you can take.
The description of items could also help us to understand what is usefull for the game and what is there for immersion ("décorative item", "misc. item", a specific color in the description popup,...).

To summarize I have 3 "problems" related to items/containers :
- I spend more time than I should opening empty containers
- Inventory management is tedious and the understanding of items is hard (especially at the beginning)
- The UI is a mess when there are too many items to highlight (text when there's many items close to each others)

But I share your tought. Solasta doesn't have enough items to interract with. At the moment and according to me, BG3 has too many that doesn't increase the gameplay value... Nor MY immersion.
At the moment those items/containers have a "bad" impact on my experience (this is not a deal breaker of course).

I think such a game should only have items whose utility (or not) is obvious.
But different people have different opinions.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 07/01/21 08:30 AM.
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Baldurs Gate had a Day / Night cycle on original release back in 1998.

Larian couldn't pull it off in 2020.

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BG 3 feels for me out of balanced. Maybe the Level cap, maybe the leak of races. That's will be finally clear, when it's comes to the final release. Year sure, it's early access. But also I'm missing a lot of communication from the side of Larian. For my understanding, EA is primarily for testing, not for the playing. But what would now new implemented or for what they're working for in the EA Release, it's always not so clear. With the hotfixes there come some Patch notes, but me I would prefer, to know before at what Working Larian actually. I had to pay €60 (like $65) and make me nervous, not to know what happened.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

I agree with your last sentence but not with all the message...
I don't find the game "good"or "fun" at the moment, especially if we're talking about combats (which is very important to me).

It has an incredible potential but combats are bad and absolutely not "strategy" to me (steam say "strategy").
If the strategy is always the same I don't call this a good strategy game.

+ I'm not very fun... Throwing fork and jumping everywhere don't make me laugh a lot...


Idk man, I think you are focussing too much on the combat. It's important of course, one of the most important things, but this is an RPG, not an X-com like strategy game. I think it is unfair to say the game isn't fun because you find the combat repetitive and don't take into account all the roleplaying aspects of it.
Yes, the combat has currently some exploits which need to be addressed (jump nonsense), and they will, but in general I think is all well and good for a party of lv4 characters. Most of the combat options for each class open up from lv5 and beyond, it's normal that, at the moment, some encounters are going to be repetitive.

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Originally Posted by Sharet
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

I agree with your last sentence but not with all the message...
I don't find the game "good"or "fun" at the moment, especially if we're talking about combats (which is very important to me).

It has an incredible potential but combats are bad and absolutely not "strategy" to me (steam say "strategy").
If the strategy is always the same I don't call this a good strategy game.

+ I'm not very fun... Throwing fork and jumping everywhere don't make me laugh a lot...


Idk man, I think you are focussing too much on the combat. It's important of course, one of the most important things, but this is an RPG, not an X-com like strategy game. I think it is unfair to say the game isn't fun because you find the combat repetitive and don't take into account all the roleplaying aspects of it.
Yes, the combat has currently some exploits which need to be addressed (jump nonsense), and they will, but in general I think is all well and good for a party of lv4 characters. Most of the combat options for each class open up from lv5 and beyond, it's normal that, at the moment, some encounters are going to be repetitive.

Combats are going to be repetitive at all levels with Larian's custom rules.

We'll still have to take advantage from highground for ranged.
We'll still have to take advantage from backstab for melee.
We'll still jump to disengage (and backstab)

Many D&D features and spells will still be useless and the difficulty will still be balanced arround the few OP custom mechanics.

Lvl 5+ is probably going to be worse if they don't go back and start trusting D&D a bit more. At the moment the difficulty level is a joke and it's gonna be hard to do something consistent when we'll cross the gap at lvl 5.

So yeah many things are good (graphics, animations, exploration or quests "paths",...) and many other are not finished... but combats, action economy and ressources management is the main feature we have to test in this EA after the first playtrough.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 08/01/21 06:14 AM.
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I have to admit I am also rather pessimistic.

What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

We will get higher levels with more powerfull spells, then they will not be used that much, because it's far easier to get similiar effects by just running around an enemy.
Then Larian wants to change these spells to make them more appealing, and in the end we get something that ist a DnD game only by name and nothing else.

I sure hope I am wrong, though.

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Originally Posted by daMichi
What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

Oh ?! Can someone give me a link to that interview ?

The Bless spell is one the major offenders, as far as my problems with the current spells go. So I'd very much want to read whatever anyone at Larian said about this spell.


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Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
Originally Posted by daMichi
What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

Oh ?! Can someone give me a link to that interview ?

The Bless spell is one the major offenders, as far as my problems with the current spells go. So I'd very much want to read whatever anyone at Larian said about this spell.

I think it's from this magazine.

An excerpt of it was posted on the Beamdog forums containing comments about Bless.

"You’ve opted for Early Access, which has served you well in the past – what’s EA’s appeal?

There are several. The feedback is superimportant – we learned that when we released the first Original Sin. We released via Early Access on that partially to get money right in the middle of production. [And it’s not even like] we didn’t say this in public. You do Early Access to get another boost of money – it’s not a lot, but it will help. Then, instead of your QA team and designers, you have thousands of people playing your game and they have a lot of opinions. If two people give you a certain opinion, that’s OK, but if thousands of people have the same opinion then you probably need to listen to them and you probably need to change it around.

During Early Access, we also get a lot of anonymous data – it tells us where people are dying, or where they’re levelling up, or what weapon they picked up and equipped, and so on, so we gain a lot of insight into what people are experiencing, and we learn from that and change the game, the rules, the balancing. It allows us to make the game a lot better by the time it releases because you have thousands of people playing it, and that gives you a lot of statistics to work with.

This also goes back to when we first worked on Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity – we had a very active forum on Larian. com, and we had a small, vocal fan base. They were constantly giving us feedback and ideas, and when I think back on those days, what we’re now doing in Early Access is similar, only a thousand times bigger. We’re getting a lot of feedback and a lot of ideas now.

One thing that we learned from the statistics is that people are completely uninterested in a lot of buffing and debuffing spells – we have stats where you can see how many people are using what spell and how often they’re using it, and that made us realise every magic spell that we put in an RPG needs to have this ‘oomph’ factor.

You have to want to click it, or you’ll never click it. You cannot sell a bless spell to people. It’s boring. They don’t care – they want to see fireworks, they want to see damage. If you talk to someone about balancing in the Original Sin games, they’ll say the buffing and debuffing is overpowered, but we make it overpowered on purpose because otherwise people are not going to click it.

We make them want to click it. We keep on changing the description and the balance until we see in the statistics that usage of that particular spell is going up. So yeah, we really learn a lot of our own game by
putting it in Early Access
.


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