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I didn’t know that the drow were not only cruel, but also sentimental, but after that I began to love the drow even more!

It is so touching and sweet when Minthara reciprocated and did not kill the Main Character, it is good to know that she is capable of love.
Drow trust is hard to gain, but so much the nicer

Such love and friendship is stronger than classical love and friendship, I would not be surprised if, in the end of the game, with MC romance with Minthara, she is ready to sacrifice her life for the main character, and before she dies, she remembers how she tried to kill us and says something very romantic

(but I don't want her to die)

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Originally Posted by Kadajko
Originally Posted by CopperCrate
Minthara is too much. Ordering the slaughter of innocent refugees is one thing, but when I find you trying to kill me and your defence is "I would totally have married you in another life but god said no." that's just a huge red flag. The whole Bond movie sleeping-with-then-killing-me I get, goes with the territory. But you need to slow down on the concubine talk, even if it's just speculative. We literally just met each other.

She said that she saw enough when you opened your mind, we don't know how much she saw but it could be a Lot. The only problem, like I said previously, she seems to like you regardless of your personality, regardless of any choices you've made.

Yeah, the relations I've had with her are still too quick and too shallow. I'm sure they'll punch the character up in terms of both dialogue and visuals, but she's really not in the same league as Lae and SH. We have our evils, and Karlach's the most likely next companion, and her whole "Gonna paint Baldur's Gate red with the blood of those who wronged me" doesn't strike me as all that light side of the Force. Can we get a female Dale Cooper or something?

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
It is so touching and sweet when Minthara reciprocated and did not kill the Main Character, it is good to know that she is capable of love.

Yeah because a healthy relationship is always wondering why your partner didn’t kill you. :P

I jest.

I don’t understand why people like her. Minthara is the epitome of evil. She wants power and control and is willing to destroy anything or anyone to achieve it. I understand choosing her side playing evil characters but objectively she’s awful.

But then again a lot of people just want to see pixelated nekkid bodies and you got to see hers which is probably why she’s so popular.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I don’t understand why people like her.

Everybody has their own reasons. Personally she got me with two lines:

1) ''I've never needed anyone, but I want you.''

2) ''I give you your life on the understanding that you belong to me now, and I to you.''

Always dreamed of romancing a character like that, never met one before in any game. For that kind of romance I'll happily slaughter those kids.

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Originally Posted by Kadajko
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I don’t understand why people like her.

Everybody has their own reasons. Personally she got me with two lines:

1) ''I've never needed anyone, but I want you.''

2) ''I give you your life on the understanding that you belong to me now, and I to you.''

Always dreamed of romancing a character like that, never met one before in any game. For that kind of romance I'll happily slaughter those kids.

I’ve never watched Twilight or saw any of the movies but those things seem like something I’d find in Twilight.

I don’t understand giving up your own morality to satisfy your need for a romance. As I said, I understand from an evil role play perspective but not when I am trying to play a decent or good character.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I’ve never watched Twilight or saw any of the movies but those things seem like something I’d find in Twilight.

Sure, why not, Twilight did quite a few things right ( for my taste ) when it comes to romance.

Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I don’t understand giving up your own morality to satisfy your need for a romance.

It's the same direction of need for companionship, you just substitute one for the other.

Originally Posted by spectralhunter
As I said, I understand from an evil role play perspective but not when I am trying to play a decent or good character.

It is a romance for evil characters, yes, since without metagaming you will never see it to begin with if you are playing a good character.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
It is so touching and sweet when Minthara reciprocated and did not kill the Main Character, it is good to know that she is capable of love.

Yeah because a healthy relationship is always wondering why your partner didn’t kill you. :P

I jest.

I don’t understand why people like her. Minthara is the epitome of evil. She wants power and control and is willing to destroy anything or anyone to achieve it. I understand choosing her side playing evil characters but objectively she’s awful.

But then again a lot of people just want to see pixelated nekkid bodies and you got to see hers which is probably why she’s so popular.


Honestly, even for what we were shown so far, her character development is pretty complex.
SPOILERS BELOW


- She comes from a evil society, from noble house (Bae)nre (no pun intended, totally) where showing good emotions/actions is going to get you in big trouble. Abadoning the official faith in Lolth is easy way to put yourself in danger in Underdark and even if you escape, there is no guarantee that you will be safe from worshippers of Lolth. Everyone is taught to act evil, backstab each other, betray the friends etc.)
- Dialogue with Minthara indicates, that she despises the cruelty of Lolth, which is probably the reason why she has left the Underdark (and she joined the Absolute cult to protect herself, looks like)
- She is not without doubts in the Absolute, as indicated by the dialogue with her selecting proper dialogue option after the talk in the camp (she responds to you, saying that she wishes that it would be true, that she could resist the Absolute)
- If you treat her well, when she does come to presumably kill your player character after the night, she is full of conflict, regret, sadness and it's obvious that she is forced to do what she doesnt't really want to happen. Besides, persuading her is a guaranteed success, on 2 saves, the rolls were 1 without any buffs and 5 when I had +4 buff to persuasion via effect, so it indicates that she actually doesn't want anything bad to happen to you. As the conversation with her goes forward, she shows that she is genuinely worried about you, that she does care about your character and is willing to risk her position/life by letting you go, as she is defying the order clearly given by her superiors and trusts you, that you won't come back to Goblin camp (as this would put her in big troubles)
- She depises the backstabbing that is everywhere in the drow society, as it caused her to lose family members, friends and even loved ones.
- Her mind is full of fear, especially because of her past, where she expected a knife in the back every day. In other words, she is very afraid of dying and considers her life to be very valuable ("Goblins are expendable, I am not")
- In one of dialogues, it is indicated that her cruel behaviour towards her subordinates is reasoned with ("the need for strong hand in leadership, or they will disperse"), as she leads really simple creatures (goblins, ogres, etc) who likely only accept authority from someone stronger than them.
- One person genuinely trusting and caring about her -> PC was more than enough to show than she can show mercy, trust others, love them, care about them etc. Judging from where she came, it is understandable that she would have big problems with any of actions described above. Yet, she did change and it's very likely that it will go further.
- Voice acting and mimics, especially during the whole dialogue in camp, are insanely well done. You can see how much does she care/depise our PC, depending on your actions.



Based on those points, I could describe her as a tragic villain, who is acting evil because of her past and upgringing, although she is capable of being redeemed as shown by pretty big change already. Her current alignment is Lawful Evil, but she does show a huge possibility of it transforming into Lawful Neutral or even Good. Seeing that she isn't completely evil or without doubt humanizes her to great degree and that's why I find her character interesting.

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Originally Posted by TheOnlyRealTav
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
It is so touching and sweet when Minthara reciprocated and did not kill the Main Character, it is good to know that she is capable of love.

Yeah because a healthy relationship is always wondering why your partner didn’t kill you. :P

I jest.

I don’t understand why people like her. Minthara is the epitome of evil. She wants power and control and is willing to destroy anything or anyone to achieve it. I understand choosing her side playing evil characters but objectively she’s awful.

But then again a lot of people just want to see pixelated nekkid bodies and you got to see hers which is probably why she’s so popular.


Honestly, even for what we were shown so far, her character development is pretty complex.
SPOILERS BELOW


- She comes from a evil society, from noble house (Bae)nre (no pun intended, totally) where showing good emotions/actions is going to get you in big trouble. Abadoning the official faith in Lolth is easy way to put yourself in danger in Underdark and even if you escape, there is no guarantee that you will be safe from worshippers of Lolth. Everyone is taught to act evil, backstab each other, betray the friends etc.)
- Dialogue with Minthara indicates, that she despises the cruelty of Lolth, which is probably the reason why she has left the Underdark (and she joined the Absolute cult to protect herself, looks like)
- She is not without doubts in the Absolute, as indicated by the dialogue with her selecting proper dialogue option after the talk in the camp (she responds to you, saying that she wishes that it would be true, that she could resist the Absolute)
- If you treat her well, when she does come to presumably kill your player character after the night, she is full of conflict, regret, sadness and it's obvious that she is forced to do what she doesnt't really want to happen. Besides, persuading her is a guaranteed success, on 2 saves, the rolls were 1 without any buffs and 5 when I had +4 buff to persuasion via effect, so it indicates that she actually doesn't want anything bad to happen to you. As the conversation with her goes forward, she shows that she is genuinely worried about you, that she does care about your character and is willing to risk her position/life by letting you go, as she is defying the order clearly given by her superiors and trusts you, that you won't come back to Goblin camp (as this would put her in big troubles)
- She depises the backstabbing that is everywhere in the drow society, as it caused her to lose family members, friends and even loved ones.
- Her mind is full of fear, especially because of her past, where she expected a knife in the back every day. In other words, she is very afraid of dying and considers her life to be very valuable ("Goblins are expendable, I am not")
- In one of dialogues, it is indicated that her cruel behaviour towards her subordinates is reasoned with ("the need for strong hand in leadership, or they will disperse"), as she leads really simple creatures (goblins, ogres, etc) who likely only accept authority from someone stronger than them.
- One person genuinely trusting and caring about her -> PC was more than enough to show than she can show mercy, trust others, love them, care about them etc. Judging from where she came, it is understandable that she would have big problems with any of actions described above. Yet, she did change and it's very likely that it will go further.
- Voice acting and mimics, especially during the whole dialogue in camp, are insanely well done. You can see how much does she care/depise our PC, depending on your actions.



Based on those points, I could describe her as a tragic villain, who is acting evil because of her past and upgringing, although she is capable of being redeemed as shown by pretty big change already. Her current alignment is Lawful Evil, but she does show a huge possibility of it transforming into Lawful Neutral or even Good. Seeing that she isn't completely evil or without doubt humanizes her to great degree and that's why I find her character interesting.

Thank you so much! You wrote what I wanted to convey, but I was too lazy to write a lot. Hopefully the developers will reveal her character even better and give a lot of Minthara content, they are in the right direction.

Minthara is a complex personality, and it would be nice if in a "good" passage you could leave her alive and interact with her. It would be very strange to change her alignment after we went the evil way and committed the genocide of the Druid grove, then it seems logical to continue playing for Law evil. The Law Evil is very pleasant to play, unlike chaotic evil. But I want to romance her both as an evil hero and as good, with different playthroughs and different Minthara content. I want more players to get to know Minthara better, not just those who play for evil.

She can become the most popular companion and one of the best characters in RPG video games if Larian does everything right.

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@OneManArmy

Hello just recenlty joined the forum, moslty i'm lurker and not very vocal, but i'm a great fan of Minthara like you! My love for Drow's romance started with Viconia into Bg and i'm happy to see Larian gave us a chance to have properly Drow Romance for us.

I hope they will make her a full companion later in the game and i hope you can finally give a full evil playthrough instead of Bg2 where you often were forced to get some good choices.

Also in the first run i miss the whole romance and i replayed it expecially for it because in the game you have 0 reasons to join the whole Minthara plan except for fall in love her madly at first sight and start doing mindlessly her biddings.

I hope they will give us more reasons to follow her at the start

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I've been slowly working through my evil playthrough to score the romance with Minthara and only just recently wiped out the Druid Grove to win her over during the party back at my camp. Boy, the devs sure poured their heart and soul into that rather spicy night with her. I approve!

Funny too how those scenes got finished way before the pc's own companion romances!

Anyway, I do like all of the speculations herein about Minthara's conflicted nature and while I highly doubt that she will be added as a full companion during the completed version of the game, I would very much like that to be the case.


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Originally Posted by Capt.Wells
I've been slowly working through my evil playthrough to score the romance with Minthara and only just recently wiped out the Druid Grove to win her over during the party back at my camp. Boy, the devs sure poured their heart and soul into that rather spicy night with her. I approve!

Funny too how those scenes got finished way before the pc's own companion romances!

Anyway, I do like all of the speculations herein about Minthara's conflicted nature and while I highly doubt that she will be added as a full companion during the completed version of the game, I would very much like that to be the case.

Why not? I'm pretty sure Halsin will be our companion, but if you choose evil way, then Minthara should be with you instead of Halsin.


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I wrote this in other thread, but it applies to same question, so I decide to take this part of the post here as well.

- Minthara if looted, just like companions loses all the equipment and the change is visible on the model. (loses the shield/armor/weapon)
- There is an romance option for her. (currently only an option for companions, might change in the future)
- Has a tadpole in her head, just like rest of companions so far, while still having possible friendly-ending interactions which hint further co-operation (this might not be true in the future).
- I have read that in game files one of companions in hinted to be a drow.
- Wiki displays her as a potential companion
- Probably will be possible to recruit late act 1/early act 2 if she survives, won't be possible to recruit as soon as others
Source
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1086940/discussions/0/2969520311927202564/
Above for drow companion, with a bit of other information regarding possible companions, one of them being the poor unlucky windmill gnome.
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Minthara
Link for wiki is above

Seeing the positive reaction of people both towards her and Halsin, besides those things mentioned above, makes it even more likely.
As for the conflicted nature, while she is definitely (initially) an evil character, she does have a potential to either become someone better or even worse than before.
If you do the romance story with her,
You can deduce that the whole party and the spending the night together part was her just being sent to kill the Player Character, homever she can't really bring herself to do it (100% success persuasion check, even without tadpole power) and reacts in completely opposite way, selflessly helping you, while putting herself de facto in a tough situation, would you want to expose the fact that she did help you. When someone taught since early years to not trust anyone, living in danger and without any real friends for years and apparently liking prestige, power so much decides to help you, in such a way, you know that there is someone else under all of this persona shown to you. Even if it's deep, really deep inside and it if it takes time for it to show.

In older Dungeons and Dragons game, Neverwinter Nights:Hordes of the Underdark, you could have a drow companion - Nathyrra, who was a redeemed Red Sister (elite drow assassins sworn to serve the Valsharess). She also, until a specific point, was definitely evil character, until something broke her (in that case, the mercy and the good of the Seer). We need to remember than many of the drows act evil simply because of how big impact their society, upbringing and religion has on them. They aren't born merciless and traitorous. If someone dedicates to show them that they can be better, resulting in a huge change (or they can become even more evil, obviously it's not one sided).

So there is sense for her to still survive the "good" storyline. If we have an option to spare her after the siege battle.

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I'm hoping that NPCs like Minthara or Halsin or Sazza are the actual model for non-companions and how they will be introduced in the game. The way Lae'zel and Shadowheart are introduced in the prologue and then right at the beginning on the beach seems reasonably well done, a couple interactions. Wylls introduction at the gate is kind of camp, but brings him into the storyline. Gale and Astarion I think both feel a bit forced in the way they are introduced. The way the dialogue is written and how the cinematics play out, Gale and Astarion could both come into the story later I think, rather than immediately.

I'm guess a Ranger companion will materialize, since its the only class currently available for the PC but that doesn't have a companion yet. Halfling might work for that, though I'd like to see a human female for balance since we already have Gale and Wyll as humans.

Minthara would be a good alt for Shadowheart, both elves-ish and clerics, especially if Minthara was more STR/Con oriented for heavier armors and tank up battlepriestess mode, so its not just a rehash of Viconia from BG1/2.

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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I'm hoping that NPCs like Minthara or Halsin or Sazza are the actual model for non-companions and how they will be introduced in the game. The way Lae'zel and Shadowheart are introduced in the prologue and then right at the beginning on the beach seems reasonably well done, a couple interactions. Wylls introduction at the gate is kind of camp, but brings him into the storyline. Gale and Astarion I think both feel a bit forced in the way they are introduced. The way the dialogue is written and how the cinematics play out, Gale and Astarion could both come into the story later I think, rather than immediately.

I'm guess a Ranger companion will materialize, since its the only class currently available for the PC but that doesn't have a companion yet. Halfling might work for that, though I'd like to see a human female for balance since we already have Gale and Wyll as humans.

Minthara would be a good alt for Shadowheart, both elves-ish and clerics, especially if Minthara was more STR/Con oriented for heavier armors and tank up battlepriestess mode, so its not just a rehash of Viconia from BG1/2.

Ranger NPC / preset player character is Minsc.

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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I'm hoping that NPCs like Minthara or Halsin or Sazza are the actual model for non-companions and how they will be introduced in the game. The way Lae'zel and Shadowheart are introduced in the prologue and then right at the beginning on the beach seems reasonably well done, a couple interactions. Wylls introduction at the gate is kind of camp, but brings him into the storyline. Gale and Astarion I think both feel a bit forced in the way they are introduced. The way the dialogue is written and how the cinematics play out, Gale and Astarion could both come into the story later I think, rather than immediately.

I'm guess a Ranger companion will materialize, since its the only class currently available for the PC but that doesn't have a companion yet. Halfling might work for that, though I'd like to see a human female for balance since we already have Gale and Wyll as humans.

Minthara would be a good alt for Shadowheart, both elves-ish and clerics, especially if Minthara was more STR/Con oriented for heavier armors and tank up battlepriestess mode, so its not just a rehash of Viconia from BG1/2.

Ranger NPC / preset player character is Minsc.


I can agree with the preset player character being Minsc only if you get Boo as well

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Oh I suppose that makes sense, I had forgotten Minsc was a thing. So 3 male human companions then at a minimum?

I gotta imagine we get at least 1 human female companion?
If it works out like I'm hoping, the archetypes we know we have now...

Priests:
Shadowheart F Half-Elf Cleric

Rogues:
Astarion M Elf (Daywalker) Thief

Warriors:
Lae'zel F Gith Fighter
Minc M Human Ranger

Wizards:
Gale Human Human Male Mage
Wyll Human Human Male Warlock

For a good solid BG game each traditional archetype should have like 4 alts to choose from...For a start these are top contenders from EA act 1 so far.

Minthara F Cleric
Halsin M Druid
Kagha F Druid

Alfira F Tiefling Bard
Sazza F Goblin (Thief?)
Florrick F Elf Mage/Sorcerer?

A Human Female something?
A Dwarf?

Probably I'm only going to get 3 alts, if that, but I'd like a dozen on top of the 5 origins + Minsc for 16-18 companions total. That'd feel at least on the level of BG2 for companions.

Like 16 npcs where 8 are Origin and 8 have intro questlines, but are intended just as companions (not protagonists).

Then add in an option to recruit player created Mercs with just barks and a more limited merc arch, and I think the game would stand up to its predecessors.
Its important that we have a decent mix of companions though. I'd vote for Minthara for sure

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I want people to say after release, "Dragon Age has Morrigan, The Witcher has Yennefer, and Baldurs Gate has Minthara"

I think it's real, so Larian needs to work more on Minthara. She has a lot of potential

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
I want people to say after release, "Dragon Age has Morrigan, The Witcher has Yennefer, and Baldurs Gate has Minthara"

I think it's real, so Larian needs to work more on Minthara. She has a lot of potential

Those are the characters you compare her to? She is so different, atm atleast, I hope to God she has nothing in common with the other two examples.

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I do have one question on the path to get Minthara I lost Wyll as he leaves the party during the party after defeating the druids, which was really bad for my party formation. Is there a way to keep Wyll and finish the path to get Mintharas after druids are slaughtered?


I don't like Gale and i am trying to do an all caster party. This party i went as a Gith Wizard and playing him more as a more caster focused eldritch knight, closer to the really old AD&D 2e optional class militant Mage which was more like a fighter that traded weapon specializations for wizard spell usage. For party i picked wyll, shadowheart, and temporally Leazel as an eldritch knight and had planned on replacing her with Minthara. The gith part gives him racial proficiency in armor upto medium, and weapons like shortsword, longsword, and greatsword, he is going with greatsword and wearing gith half plate as a wizard, i did strength low only because i know how to get the headband of intellect quickly, and had given wyll til he left medium armor procency with the extra point into dex to let him use medium armor and a shield, so it wasa full caster party with all of them wearing medium armor

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Originally Posted by soulstalker
I do have one question on the path to get Minthara I lost Wyll as he leaves the party during the party after defeating the druids, which was really bad for my party formation. Is there a way to keep Wyll and finish the path to get Mintharas after druids are slaughtered?

Every time this question is asked everyone always answers - no.

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