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Well that's the point your words carry.


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Under your interpretation perharps smile

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Technically, the imp isnt necessarily a "real" imp. It isn't the final form of some evil baker or low level mook. Find familiar puts a spirit of your choice (fey, celestial or fiend) into a form. Normally you only pick beasts, but the Pact of the Chain lets you pick other forms. So you could have a fey imp, a fiendish pseudodragon, or a celestial quasit (just kidding, no one ever picks quasit).

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Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
Technically, the imp isnt necessarily a "real" imp. It isn't the final form of some evil baker or low level mook. Find familiar puts a spirit of your choice (fey, celestial or fiend) into a form. Normally you only pick beasts, but the Pact of the Chain lets you pick other forms. So you could have a fey imp, a fiendish pseudodragon, or a celestial quasit (just kidding, no one ever picks quasit).

Sounds all like wishiwashi something to me.
Or rather that there are just many different types of Familiars. But it is not because of some "superior Familiar magic" that they take a form.
More like many beings which are all real and complete in what they are can 'become' a Familiar.

There is no Magic that makes a Spirit look like a Fiend. ( Appart from Polymorph. ) grin

If you pacted with a TRUE Fiend, probably not the little sh*t we can summon but a greater Devil even, they will simply allow you to call forth one of THEIR servants as aid for yourself.
This is how I have seen this little Fiends all this time. Of course this must not necessarily be what has occured.
Maybe we asked such a little, unimpressive Fiend himself, with a deal that let us even keep our Soul just because a little sh*t Devil like this is not impressive enough to sell our souls too.
Cause what can he give, huh?
I imagine this totally lowclass tiny Devils to be glad if you just offer them to be able to kill someone, aka doing Evil stuff for an Evil alignment creature, just to be willing to answer your call.

But Warlocks seem more powerful. They get access to abilitys far beyond just summoning a little Devil.
I imagine that the Warlocks we can play, are all at least in carhoots with a Cambion at least. weird



Juicy details asside - I doubt that Paladins, Clerics or Druids know about any of this and why would they? As they are opposing Deals with the "evil forces" by all means, right?
They wouldn't know why a creature looking 10/10 like a Devil, would follow you around without trying to slice your throat open immediately.
So everybody might assume you are one of this infamous fools making pacts with Devils and allowing them more influence and power of the people o Fae'run in one way or another.

Someone walking around with a Devil... HAH. As if they would not ask questions.
But hey the whole being a Drow part is also mostly unanswered and leaves more to desire.
Drow are infamous themself for being a type of super sketchy, evil Elf.

The few little mentions of it here and there are truly... cute. wink
Gives me hope for the final version.
Being of a highly infamous Race or walking around with a very infamous creature is not truly mirrored in the current version of the game.


I dunno about Tieflings but the Druids, who host many Elves as their members, they should be way more wary of Drows.
Ask the dwarfen Poison Ivy. ^^

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In previous editions of DnD, Magic users would often have fiends as familiars, and not necessarily evil magic users either. The assumption often is that you are in control and that creature is obeying you. In 4e, for example, I had a bound demon as a familiar and at a low level would summon a dretch to take care of my enemies. But at the time I was not evil (yet), and I had those things under control. Similarly, in Faerun, magic users employ lower level fiends often. They are easier to bound and/or trick into servitude, and there is the assumption that they can not do as much harm as a higher level fiend. Many of these magic users may be evil, but some are also good and use their conjuration/enchantment skills for heroics. So while a Druid or Cleric may not like it, it may be uncouth of them to jump to the immediate conclusion and have worse repercussions attacking the mage that is helping save their home or is keeping the devil weak and bound. That being said, more dialogue of discomfort or concern would be good, or even options (that might not necessarily be good aligned) that open up purely because the familiar is a fiend instead of other options.

And in current 5e, surface drow have become more and more of a thing so they are not considered as sketchy as they used to be as there are more interacting with the people.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
And in current 5e, surface drow have become more and more of a thing so they are not considered as sketchy as they used to be as there are more interacting with the people.

[Linked Image from emojis.wiki]


Can it be, that Fae'run is suddenly not so cool anymore?

Why even have something as unyielding in their own evil ways as the Drow when suddenly "Drizzt" clones seem to be way more of the norm?
Aaaaaaaaah sh*t it is happening again!!
The exception was so cool now everybody clones it until its ruined and becoming another form of meaningless norm.

This is what I feel from that clarification.
°sigh°

Thats so dumb.
But hey I guess it kinda mirrors progress in the forgotten Realms.
Similar to how World of RacewarCraft evolved. wink
The Horde of now is also just a complete joke to what it was in Vanilla.

Everybody that is cool must be watered down sooner or later.
What a sh*tshow.


AAAH and now I regret everyting.
A Mod - please just close this topic.


I am a Kelemvor hater anyways and would sell my soul over 9000 times sooner to a Devil, as to let this pathetic, poor excuse of a "Hades god" judge me.
Way cooler to be an eternal brainless Devil maggot, as to be stuck as a screaming face frozen in time forever in this wall of the humiliated.

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I agree with you on FR becoming watered down, but I wouldn't sell my soul to the devil, it's a really bad deal.
The reason the lore is changing into this lukewarm garbage is because WoTC wants to make more money so they are going for popular appeal. That is why races mean nothing anymore and you have people here who unironically and smugly gloat about this, as if it was a good thing. It is a good thing to them because it offends more oldschool players whom they hate because they want meaningful restrictions. It's just how the world works now, everything becomes garbage so that it can be monetized better.

Welcome to late stage capitalism.

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Originally Posted by Bruh
I agree with you on FR becoming watered down, but I wouldn't sell my soul to the devil, it's a really bad deal.
The reason the lore is changing into this lukewarm garbage is because WoTC wants to make more money so they are going for popular appeal. That is why races mean nothing anymore and you have people here who unironically and smugly gloat about this, as if it was a good thing. It is a good thing to them because it offends more oldschool players whom they hate because they want meaningful restrictions. It's just how the world works now, everything becomes garbage so that it can be monetized better.

Welcome to late stage capitalism.
You've had adequate warnings about your posting style and behaviour. This latest post shows that you have not learned the lesson of not being insulting, so I am giving you a week away to consider how to express yourself with more civility in future.

EDIT: And, given you have already tried to bypass past suspensions and bans by creating Alt accounts, your original 7-day suspension is now a permanent ban.

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Hahahaha, Bruh - you make me smile! ^^
Originally Posted by Bruh
Welcome to late stage capitalism.

Appart from that, I agree with about anything you said.
This is not bound to capitalism, just to... this unrealistic expectation that everybody in the world is somehow a happy family.
And the fact that people are consumers at their core with no real traditional values and pride in anything.
Rootless people who do not truly understand people who PRIDE themself in their roots.
A more and more appearing phenomen in the west in general.

The last barrier -> their own visual appearance which they cannot help but to identify with.
I think almost: " Thanks god. At least some aspect that makes us unique. "

But yeah this wierd "equalizationing" stuff is happening all over older franchises, to an extend that really makes you think
" It would have been better, if 'Franchise X' would have just ended with the last season, or game, or series. And not been continued until it became THIS. "
In old Fae'run, being Drizzt was being a rebell.
Now... being a true prideful and unchanging Drow with title and good old Drow-culture cruelty, now THAT is being the rebell.

Seeing it this way it might really be amusing to play an convinced follower of some evil path just for the lulz.
Betray peoples expectations with the so underrated tradition of the expected, that it becomes the unexpected again. grin

Hmmm.
Oh well.
At least the Tieflings are still loathed in BG3 for their appearance.
Hope is not lost for realistic rejection of something distrustful looking.

Then again we are carrying Tadpols in our heads grin and we are not turning, breaking with another very hard to negotiate tradition. grin
Even if this condition our characters have, tends to be the specialness that drives the plot.
Just how we were "scource sensitives" in DivinityOriginalSin2.



Originally Posted by Sadurian
You've had adequate warnings about your posting style and behaviour. This latest post shows that you have not learned the lesson of not being insulting, so I am giving you a week away to consider how to express yourself with more civility in future.

It was that mention of 'capitalism' was it? grin
Was that really so bad what he wrote? A bit on the gloomy side maybe. But not entirely unrelatable.

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Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
Technically, the imp isnt necessarily a "real" imp. It isn't the final form of some evil baker or low level mook. Find familiar puts a spirit of your choice (fey, celestial or fiend) into a form. Normally you only pick beasts, but the Pact of the Chain lets you pick other forms. So you could have a fey imp, a fiendish pseudodragon, or a celestial quasit (just kidding, no one ever picks quasit).

I don't think this matters as to what it would look like to others.


Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
There is no Magic that makes a Spirit look like a Fiend. ( Appart from Polymorph. ) grin

It's not like spirits have much of a form to begin with. They are pretty much shapeless in conception and takes shape when they enter the material world.

And yes, there is such magic. That's exactly what Find Familiar does.


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Anyone who thinks that exiled Drow living on the surface is a new thing that WOTC made specifically for 5e clearly hasn't been following the racial migration and progression of Drow from 2e onward.

Drow have been migrating away to the surface for quite a while now, although in the old days their numbers were relatively few, a small number of small communities that lived in secrecy. The Drow underwent a significant racial split in the absence of lolth in the 3rd era, most went to follow the other dark seldarine, but a not insignificant amount took the opportunity to swap over to Eilistraee, whose main things is that she encourages Drow to leave Lolth society behind and migrate to the surface. Eilistraee was later killed by Lolth at the end of the 3rd era for this after she returned from her godly sabbatical. After that, some of the Drow swapped back to Lolth, but at this point Eilistraee had several thousand followers preaching her doctrine, and the loss of a couple hundred was considered to be acceptable.

Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, and all the other Drow gods who got killed off ages ago were revived at the beginning of 5e, lots of Gods were brought back actually, including Myrkul, the shithead. but past events still remain, and the significant population of Drow that were already living on the surface remained where they were.

Does this mean that the "old" Drow have suddenly ceased to be? No, don't be an idiot. I don't understand people who think like this. Your traditional fem-dom Drow still exist, they haven't been erased. There are still more evil Drow than there are good Drow, and prejudice against Drow is still rife amongst many communities, who likely don't care about whether you are a surface Drow or an Underdark Drow. But this gives people another option for playing their characters beyond being a super evil nasty Drow, or being a Drizz't wannabe.

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Originally Posted by Piff
I don't understand people who think like this. Your traditional fem-dom Drow still exist, they haven't been erased.

" Uuhhhh. " grin


Thats good. wink

Originally Posted by Piff
There are still more evil Drow than there are good Drow, and prejudice against Drow is still rife amongst many communities, who likely don't care about whether you are a surface Drow or an Underdark Drow. But this gives people another option for playing their characters beyond being a super evil nasty Drow, or being a Drizz't wannabe.

It is not about only the character itself. It is also the world around them.
As long as the traditional surface dweller Races dont start treating any bypassing Drow like they would any other Elf, I am good.
It would be stupid if I see "virtue signaling" and more and more "wannabe-antiracist" in the game.

A few, yes? Gladly.
Many? Hell no!
There is a certain charm to the originality of things.

Star Wars too has evolved into SJW Wars with the times. Noticably so.
And fans are not really taking it well and refuse to accept any Movie after "Return of the Jedi" after all.
Which is probably a good thing.
Didnt liked how they massacred ma boi Han Solo.

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