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Joined: Jan 2021
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apprentice
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Other classes bring up an important point here: the way 5e works spellcasters get ranged cantrips that are essentially as good as (if not better than) ranged weapons. I agree it's kinda more arcade-y than classic D&D but it's kind of endemic of 5e and more than arrows might have to change for the feel you're wanting.

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nah- i play 5e now- spellcasters do have cantrips, but their effectiveness in baldurs gate has more to do with game balance and sticking to 5e rules than anything else. they change that , and they'll still be useful, just not as effective. besides - spellcasters are oh so squishy (as they should be) so its part of the balance

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Originally Posted by Ghost214
it doesn't nerf anything- in pen and paper - alot of the same bonuses that you get for ranged attacks for rogue and ranger - you get for melee also, again - its just d&d - you don't run out of arrows often, but it makes you aware so you thoughtfully attack. This is a turn-based rpg so some of that strategy kind of goes with the territory, unlike a fallout, elder scrolls etc...

If two classes both specialize in a specific weapon and get most of their damage from that weapon and only one of them needs to worry about suddenly not being able to use their weapon in combat then yes, that is a nerf to the guy with a bow.

Also not every DnD group tracks ammo. All the ones I've played we never bothered because tracking each arrow was tedious and we didn't want our bow users to suddenly not be able to use all their feats/fighting style/abilities just because they used their basic attack too many times.

Your comment about adding strategy would make sense of everyone had similar mechanics. Armor degraded. Swords dulled and chipped. But if only one class needs to worry about maintaining their equipment it is an unbalance that adds little actual strategic depth to the overall game. Just busywork.

The way special ammo is handled does add strategic layers, though. Do I want to use my acid arrow now, or save it for later? Or use my fire arrow to set off that oil? Or maybe poison my arrow to do extra damage? Will I need these special, one-off attacks later on? It is a much more compelling choice than "Can I get through the next fight with the arrows I have or should I run back to buy more?"

Spoiler: You should always run back to buy more. It is never a bad idea to run back and buy more.

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I've played in numerous tabletop D&D games. In the vast majority, we don't bother tracking ammo. There have been two where we actually tracked ammo (one of them was even a wilderness survival game, where it kind of makes sense) and it never became close to relevant in either of those games. No one ever came close to running out in either of those games.

I understand that they're physical objects and theoretically, you could run out of them, but how often does it actually happen to people? In those instances, is it because you didn't have the opportunity to get more ammo or was it because you forgot or just couldn't be bothered with it?

I count keeping enough ammo around as part of weapon upkeep. For melee weapons and spellcasters, that they are taking care of their tools is assumed. Why would we put extra work (and tedious work at that, not even fun stuff) on the ranged weapon users?

I could see interesting situations come up if, say, the DM had a little invisible imp running around stealing all of the PCs' ammo - that would force someone who is normally dependent upon their bow to search for less comfortable solutions to their problems. That's something I can engage with. Maintenance, I cannot.

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Originally Posted by Ghost214
its not a "hard" option - when it has happened, I had to do the rest of the dungeon in kind of a hybrid state - I managed to pull 1 or two arrows out of enemies and save them for flying stuff but all in all - my sneak attacks and everything worked the same in melee so there was a lot of attacking and disengaging while my tank kept enemies in place. yeah it was interesting. Makes you have to actually have strategy and think a bit in a way that pure melee classes don't have to (or dare i say, get to) a lot of times. Honestly everyone I've seen that plays a rogue or ranger well goes outside of the basic "I'm just gonna shoot arrows the whole time" --- Ive had fights where i had to play "second tank" as a rogue because we were fighting two "boss" type characters at the same time (barbarian, rogue, and warlock - i think we had a cleric who was down at the time) the first guy went after the barbarian and when the other got in the warlocks face, i knew he was done unless i took him. Soooo - High Dex, uncanny dodge,cunning action, swashbuckling and sneak attacks ftw. and i was a mostly ranged rogue. part of the charm of D&D.....either way, I'm hoping we lean more d&d than Skyrim and fallout, like a lot of people keep bringing up - I like those games, but they aren't even close. I feel like for the people that want that style of play, play the divinity games and wait for the sequel for those. Its still turn-based, but more gamey, more "zany" maybe. definitely more arcadey. which is cool - but this needs to be D&d

I've also used a rogue as a second tank, or as a swing melee, swooping from mob to mob for a "clean-up" hit here, a distraction there - but that was always a situational option - I didn't need to run out of arrows to force my hand. Maybe I want to fire an arrow at mob A and then dash behind mob B - to set up an OA down the road - I don't need an artificial arrow economy to decide on that tactic.

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