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+1 for being able choose when and how my team uses their one (1!) reaction per turn. Paladin smiting, Eldritch Knights using Shield spell, opportunity attacks are great examples of why a reaction disk of would be great. Have options to let the AI decide how to automatically react if some people actually prefer that is fine by me. But that is one thing Solasta does far better than BG3, IMO.

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Yeah I rather have player control and agency and capacity to make informed choices than "LOL THE BATTLE SURE WENT FAST".

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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by fallenj
companions? CC Zealots and use counter when you think your going to needed it. Line of sight, use companion as meat shield, what's your inventory, potions?, cleric?, grease bottle? Barrels around? where are we? How many turns till he usually casts death?

There is usually a good amount of choices you can do in any given scenario

Counterspell isn't in the game yet from what I can gather its a 5th level spell (3rd level spell slot). I know there is a couple reaction spells for warlock already in the game, do you guys cry yourself to sleep when something doesn't work like you wanted it to? Use another tactic or maybe save scum.

I asked you a very simple question. I defined the example. The turn order is set; everybody mentioned in the initiative is mentioned. That is the scenario. There is no save-scumming for a better situation; this is the encounter I'm defining. It's turn one. That is the turn order as rolled; the lich is going to cast finger of death on you. The zealots are going to cast minor buff spells or cantrips. That is the entirety of the scenario; a door has just slammed shut behind you, leaving you in a blank, empty, round room that is 30 feet across.

Your goal is to counterspell the finger of death, because not doing so will result in your death from the base damage alone, even if you make the save. How do you do it?

Any sane implementation of the rules allows you to do this, straight up, without fussing; it's a tactical decision that you as a player can make - to not use your reactions on things that you don't want to use them on, and to use them on things that you do. It's your choice.

You could certianly try to crowd control the zealots, as you mentioned. You try that - it only sticks to one of them. Now what? You just die and reload, and hope it sticks to both of them next time? Why do you feel that that is better than being able to choose when and when not to use your own spells?

Your made up scenario is based on one character which doesn't involve bg3, its a bad test/scenario and your tunneling the outcome in your favor.

This doesn't prove anything. Sorry btw I didn't make my answer simple enough for you.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Your made up scenario is based on one character which doesn't involve bg3, its a bad test/scenario and your tunneling the outcome in your favor.

This doesn't prove anything. Sorry btw I didn't make my answer simple enough for you.

Okay. How would you automate paladin smites? That’s a simple general question.

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I don't know if 5e changed it but smite is a paladin spell attack. Like magic missile for wiz.

did they auto basic attacks? Let me know when they auto basic attacks so I can watch you people complain about something else.

So in this scenario you want to compare a basic spell attack to reaction skills / spells. An why you can choose basic actions while you can not choose when to do a reaction. Why do you think Larian did it this way? Why do you think any game would do it this way? My answer would be still the same from previous posts, scroll up and reread them.

amazing

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In 5e, Divine Smite is neither a spell attack nor a reaction, it's a class feature that you can tack onto a successful melee attack.

That said, it is indicative of the kinds of choices that players need to be able to make and currently cannot (or are currently made in a way that is both awkward and doesn't follow 5e rules). Examples off the top of my head include reactions, sneak attack, battle master maneuvers, and divine smite.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
I don't know if 5e changed it but smite is a paladin spell attack. Like magic missile for wiz.

did they auto basic attacks? Let me know when they auto basic attacks so I can watch you people complain about something else.

Yes it is but how do you implement it on auto fire?

You can use smite on a hit but you can also increase damage by suing higher level spell slots. There’s a lot of choices involved that can’t be satisfied with a toggle. It has to function like a reaction in Solasta.

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Anyway whatever they're saying reactions are an AWESOME opportunity to improve TB and lead to a less static system.

Having things to do when it's not your turn is something totally missing in many TB games and Baldur's Gate 3 even doesn't have the ready action (which is called "ambush" or something like that in other games).

If they find a good solution, and I would say a better solution than in Solasta... BG3 could totally define what the TB genre should be.

It works in Solasta and you never wait doing nothing during ennemies turns. It add a lot of depth to combats, a lot of things to do and to manage whatever it's your turn or not.
But it slow the flow of combats (not their duration).

I'm not sure the way they manage reactions would suit BG3 but Larian definitely have to find something to implement proper reactions. That's an important part of D&D (action economy, classes balance, classes features, "realistic" or "reactive" combats...) and it add a huge value to TB combats.

The real question is how...

What we have at the moment is cheap and that's a fact.
I personnaly think BG3 deserve better than cheap mechanics.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 09/01/21 07:36 PM.
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It might slow things down but later powers and certain class abilities really do depend on reactions, in fact one of those powers was made weirdly with hellish rebuke requiring casting before, which actually can make it proc on the wrong thing and goes against the purpose of the spell.

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
In 5e, Divine Smite is neither a spell attack nor a reaction, it's a class feature that you can tack onto a successful melee attack.

That said, it is indicative of the kinds of choices that players need to be able to make and currently cannot (or are currently made in a way that is both awkward and doesn't follow 5e rules). Examples off the top of my head include reactions, sneak attack, battle master maneuvers, and divine smite.
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by fallenj
I don't know if 5e changed it but smite is a paladin spell attack. Like magic missile for wiz.

did they auto basic attacks? Let me know when they auto basic attacks so I can watch you people complain about something else.

Yes it is but how do you implement it on auto fire?

You can use smite on a hit but you can also increase damage by suing higher level spell slots. There’s a lot of choices involved that can’t be satisfied with a toggle. It has to function like a reaction in Solasta.

Generally sounds like a feature you would choose what level of smite and toggle it. That would be my guess to keep the game flowing, but who knows what Larian will do.

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
What we have at the moment is cheap and that's a fact.
I personnaly think BG3 deserve better than cheap mechanics.

Truthfully we are still in EA, who knows what they'll rearrange / redo mechanic wise. Not only that but possibly pushing back full release with covid still active, along with special edition even after full release (if they go that route like they did for DOS 1 & 2).

With this not just a single player game but also a multi presuming my buddy will take 30 minutes instead of 5 if they go this route. Can't wait it'll be punching monitor fun.

Originally Posted by CJMPinger
It might slow things down but later powers and certain class abilities really do depend on reactions, in fact one of those powers was made weirdly with hellish rebuke requiring casting before, which actually can make it proc on the wrong thing and goes against the purpose of the spell.

Later levels presuming it'll get even worse, that is if opportunity attack increase, so instead of just one OA you have multi and you'll be ask for each one.

Hellish rebuke was one of the warlock spells I was referring to earlier, you prep before hand and stays on you till it procs.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Generally sounds like a feature you would choose what level of smite and toggle it. That would be my guess to keep the game flowing, but who knows what Larian will do.

Later levels presuming it'll get even worse, that is if opportunity attack increase, so instead of just one OA you have multi and you'll be ask for each one.

Hellish rebuke was one of the warlock spells I was referring to earlier, you prep before hand and stays on you till it procs.

Having multiple toggles you have to switch seems a whole lot more cumbersome than a reaction window when you make a hit. Especially I can see people forgetting to set it properly before each attack.

According to 5E rules, you can only have one opportunity attack per round.

Honestly, your method of just having toggles just means we'll have lots of toggles to manage. I don't see how that's easier and more intuitive than having a reaction option window pop up when an event occurs that allows you to use a reaction.

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Yeah, but you don't necessarily want it to proc on the first enemy to hit you, saving it for another. Therfor, the current system actually removes player choice in how combat goes. I ahve actually has situations where a smaller enemy procs OA and then the bigger enemy walks away scott free even though I wanted to prevent the bigger enemy from moving, I didn't care about the small fry. Therefor I would like to be able to toggle on or off if I want to be prompted for OA/reactions or not.

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So, just to be clear... Fallen suggested that for smites, the solution might be to have the option to toggle the smite on, that you'd have to select and toggle from a choice of multiple different toggle options that are all visible on your screen independently (smite level), to activate if you hit - something that you would need to deliberately do before hand, before attacking, and then need to toggle off again after you swing your weapon, so that you don't continue to burn spell slots every weapon swing... And they are suggesting that that is a better way and preserves combat flow and speed more than having an automated question come up when you hit where you can click once, in a pause that takes less than a second, to choose whether to smite and what level if so (can be done with one click, and certainly in the solasta implementation, the reaction pop-ups are usually on screen for less than a second and do not, in fact, slow down combat in any tangible way at all, compared to the time it takes to just straight up make your move or make a decision about how to react on your turn). That's what it sounds like they're saying here. Is that what they're saying?

So you know, Fallen, since you seem to be making many broad assumptions about 5e rules without actually knowing (please don't do that - do your research first, it helps everyone): no, you do not get more reactions per turn as you level up; you only ever have one, whether you're level one or level twenty.

If deciding whether to cast shield or not when attacked causes your friend a decision gate which takes them twenty extra minutes to resolve, that's entirely on your friend and nothing to do with the game. You likely spend longer on your own turn moving barrels around and shimmying your character carefully around the enemy to ensure that the auto-path AI doesn't proc an unnecessary OA on you. Exaggerating to extreme values does not serve to enhance your argument - it actually weakens it, because it demonstrates that you need to push to extremes and treat them as normal just to make your stance look tenable... which is usually an indication that it's not.

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What? I mention toggle for one ability, it would be equal to I think they did spells like this. Where you have say smite on your action bar, you click it it pops up a list of levels you can have for smite and click on that. Popup on your action bar that extending out showing what to chose kind of like how totems were on WoW a long time ago for shamans.

Just a idea, I'm not creating the game so who knows what it'll be.

At least I'm not ripping features from another game and throwing a fit cause its not like that.

Originally Posted by spectralhunter
According to 5E rules, you can only have one opportunity attack per round.

There used to be a feat you could take that increased the amount of OA you could do in a single round. don't really know if they transferred it over to 5e or not though.

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I wish that Tactical Adventures had the same money and resources that Larian does and I really hope that they get to a well-known and respected AAA level.
Their take on a D&D game is so refreshing. None of the UI or mechanics bloat, no relying on cinematics for every single minor interaction, and characters don't feel like superheroes thanks to a catch-all convenient story hook.
The reactions are just one tiny thing that Solasta does way better than BG3 in its current state.
And although more simplistic, the game feels substantially more optimized for an Early Access game. The Div 4.0 engine was a mistake.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

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Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I wish that Tactical Adventures had the same money and resources that Larian does and I really hope that they get to a well-known and respected AAA level.
Their take on a D&D game is so refreshing. None of the UI or mechanics bloat, no relying on cinematics for every single minor interaction, and characters don't feel like superheroes thanks to a catch-all convenient story hook.
The reactions are just one tiny thing that Solasta does way better than BG3 in its current state.
And although more simplistic, the game feels substantially more optimized for an Early Access game. The Div 4.0 engine was a mistake.

Can't say I agree with you, generally dropped that game after a little bit and will continue when it goes live. While BG3 I've played multi play throughs single and multi along with more to come and mods possibly pushing more.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
What? I mention toggle for one ability, it would be equal to I think they did spells like this. Where you have say smite on your action bar, you click it it pops up a list of levels you can have for smite and click on that. Popup on your action bar that extending out showing what to chose kind of like how totems were on WoW a long time ago for shamans.

Just a idea, I'm not creating the game so who knows what it'll be.

At least I'm not ripping features from another game and throwing a fit cause its not like that.

Not trying to pick on you but you accuse others of ripping off features but then present an example feature ripped from WoW...

I had a feeling you liked MMO layouts from your comments. I don't know if that will work with BG3. Spell casters like wizards will have around 20 unique spells available at level 10. That's not to mention special abilities, scrolls and other objects that will clog up that hotbar. The old MMO layouts to me are archaic at this point.

The Solasta layout is very well done. It changes as you expend actions whether they be full actions or bonus actions. It's very elegant for the game. I agree with the critics, it looks too modern for a fantasy setting game but that is a detail that can be remedied. It may also be too big and has a lot of wasted space, again something that can be fixed. And why not rip off the UI? Practically every MMO out there rip each other off and most function the same.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by fallenj
What? I mention toggle for one ability, it would be equal to I think they did spells like this. Where you have say smite on your action bar, you click it it pops up a list of levels you can have for smite and click on that. Popup on your action bar that extending out showing what to chose kind of like how totems were on WoW a long time ago for shamans.

Just a idea, I'm not creating the game so who knows what it'll be.

At least I'm not ripping features from another game and throwing a fit cause its not like that.

Not trying to pick on you but you accuse others of ripping off features but then present an example feature ripped from WoW...

I had a feeling you liked MMO layouts from your comments. I don't know if that will work with BG3. Spell casters like wizards will have around 20 unique spells available at level 10. That's not to mention special abilities, scrolls and other objects that will clog up that hotbar. The old MMO layouts to me are archaic at this point.

The Solasta layout is very well done. It changes as you expend actions whether they be full actions or bonus actions. It's very elegant for the game. I agree with the critics, it looks too modern for a fantasy setting game but that is a detail that can be remedied. It may also be too big and has a lot of wasted space, again something that can be fixed. And why not rip off the UI? Practically every MMO out there rip each other off and most function the same.

its a ui feature that is used in multi games including from what I understand this one also. nor am i throwing a fit if it doesn't come true.

ill agree that solasta does have a nice ui but they shaped it like a mobile game with big blocky grey squares, doesn't really look that great. Hope they change it up before launch.

and ya ive played wow since vanilla and returned for each expansion, currently returned to swtor.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I wish that Tactical Adventures had the same money and resources that Larian does and I really hope that they get to a well-known and respected AAA level.
Their take on a D&D game is so refreshing. None of the UI or mechanics bloat, no relying on cinematics for every single minor interaction, and characters don't feel like superheroes thanks to a catch-all convenient story hook.
The reactions are just one tiny thing that Solasta does way better than BG3 in its current state.
And although more simplistic, the game feels substantially more optimized for an Early Access game. The Div 4.0 engine was a mistake.

Can't say I agree with you, generally dropped that game after a little bit and will continue when it goes live. While BG3 I've played multi play throughs single and multi along with more to come and mods possibly pushing more.

It's the polish. BG3 is definitely very beautiful and slick. AAA graphics and voice action goes a long way, not gonna lie. And BG3 does have all of D&D content available.

If TA had Larian money and were able to make their game as beautiful and polished as BG3 with the FULL official D&D rules? I'd never even consider BG3 since other than it's shiny features, it's a pretty shallow game tactically due to DOS game mechanics.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
its a ui feature that is used in multi games including from what I understand this one also. nor am i throwing a fit if it doesn't come true.

ill agree that solasta does have a nice ui but they shaped it like a mobile game with big blocky grey squares, doesn't really look that great. Hope they change it up before launch.

No one is throwing a fit, well at least I'm not. I am just being critical to Larian when I think they need critical suggestions.

I won't disagree on how it looks. It completely looks out of place. At least we can agree on that. laugh

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