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I've just started playing balders gate enhanced edition on my PC to fill in the gap between the next patch after 120 hours odd of early access (which is excellent). 9 odd hours in & you can see immediately how this & the sequel are nothing like BG3 the design philosophy are completely different in almost everyway the scope is bigger the combat is different & clearly designed for larger parties & faster paced combat.

The only thing the two games really have in common are the fact that they are D&D based games drawing on similar content. I agree absolutely that BG3 can be called BG3. BG 1&2 from what I can gather are much broader than just Balders Gate too so what's the drama?

Again early in the real issue I think is that fans of BG 1&2 have waited so long for someone to make a true sequel but for whatever reasons (maybe legal/copyright/license) its never happened - I can absolutely see why fans loved it already & if someone even rebuilt the originals from the ground up for modern next gen consoles & PC's - that would be absolutely fantastic & I could see myself losing 100's of hours in it.

But BG3 is Larian & they are using their design & IP built from their current games & to me thats fine - no better, no worse - but I can better appreciate why fans of the originals again feel like they have missed out - however financially Larian would have been stupid to try & start over on such a vast undertaking.

Back to OP topic - sorry I digress......I agree with the Utube clip broadly speaking its just a name & a marketing strategy about a game set in the D&D universe drawing on the reputation of the first 2 games - yes I get the point that it means people assume its a direct sequel but any small amount of research shows the difference between the old games & BG3 - not better or worse just different.

Last edited by Tarorn; 10/01/21 10:02 PM.
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"but any small amount of research shows the difference between the old games & BG3 - not better or worse just different."

Exactly!

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Larian is not even trying to honor the old titles. There is no throwing back to the originals , from the UI to art design, from mechanics to the tone of the writing.

I honestly think Fallout 3 did a better job of retaining the original's feel than BG3.

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Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
I honestly think Fallout 3 did a better job of retaining the original's feel than BG3.

What? No. I completely disagree.


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No need to argue anymore, whatever you want to call BG3 <DOS3> BG2 is still the king, and thank boo for that. It destroys BG3 in terms of atmosphere, content, music, npcs, dialogue, art style, UI, gameplay et etc...

Very poor decision by Larian to utilize the name BG3 , its so far off what it once was. But no one except fans of the first games seems to care so...who cares anymore what you call your games. 100% bate marketing. Oh and no worry, well just add Minsc for the fans and everyone will be happy...yea. thanks.

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 11/01/21 07:39 AM.
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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
No need to argue anymore, whatever you want to call BG3 <DOS3> BG2 is still the king, and thank boo for that. It destroys BG3 in terms of atmosphere, content, music, npcs, dialogue, art style, UI, gameplay et etc...

Very poor decision by Larian to utilize the name BG3 , its so far off what it once was. But no one except fans of the first games seems to care so...who cares anymore what you call your games. 100% bate marketing. Oh and no worry, well just add Minsc for the fans and everyone will be happy...yea. thanks.
Sorry, but no.

I find that BG3 blows BG2 out of the water in all areas you described except content (or will, with tweaking and more content, since we are in early access), thus far. But, hey you're welcome to your own opinion.

(Seriously, I loathed the BG1 and 2 interfaces. They were just awful for me, and the characterization felt flat as a pancake a lot of the time, but again, just my opinion)

Also, why isn't this in the BG3, DOS, and the D&D ruleset thread? I thought that's where all the discussion about whether BG3 is BG3 or DoS 3 was supposed to be contained. (and why isn't that in the megathreads?)

As a side note, when you say " But no one except fans of the first games seems to care so..." does that count those who consider themselves fans of BG 1 and 2, and see this as a worthy successor? I've seen at least a few of those floating around here.


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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
No need to argue anymore, whatever you want to call BG3 <DOS3> BG2 is still the king, and thank boo for that. It destroys BG3 in terms of atmosphere, content, music, npcs, dialogue, art style, UI, gameplay et etc...

Very poor decision by Larian to utilize the name BG3 , its so far off what it once was. But no one except fans of the first games seems to care so...who cares anymore what you call your games. 100% bate marketing. Oh and no worry, well just add Minsc for the fans and everyone will be happy...yea. thanks.


It’s really sad but right now there is more truth to it than I wished.

Game is still EA though! But the fact that larian fell silent and not only evading all the critics but stoped communicating at all gives this opinions even credit 😢

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Curious, wonder if people think fallout 3 and 4 are not fallout games?

Baldurs gate games are named after a city right? Wonder if well see that city in say act 3.

Last edited by fallenj; 11/01/21 07:32 PM.
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They are extremely shitty fallout games not worthy of the name


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Originally Posted by Dexai
They are extremely shitty fallout games not worthy of the name
ROFL, this is pretty much what I was expecting.

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Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
It’s really sad but right now there is more truth to it than I wished.

Game is still EA though! But the fact that larian fell silent and not only evading all the critics but stoped communicating at all gives this opinions even credit 😢

There have also been good signs. They did remove surfaces from cantrips. They just need to continue that process until we get a DnD game.

One of the problems with the click bait-y title (and I've said I don't think it was intentional) is that the trolls have poisoned the well. So when someone says "this game plays more like DOS than D&D" their opinion is conflated with those who are just saying it for the lulz.

And I don't agree with the three bullet points at all. The people focusing on the city are a tiny minority. BG4 can take place in Calisham for all I care if the game feels like BG2 in terms of party interaction and heroic narrative.

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It’s really sad but right now there is more truth to it than I wished.

Game is still EA though! But the fact that larian fell silent and not only evading all the critics but stoped communicating at all gives this opinions even credit 😢


This is what I meant old balders gate game fans thinking that Larian wanted to make exactly the same game - that ship has long since sailed & there will be a reason why nobody has tried in the past 20 odd years because as i said earlier a true successor to BG1&2 would be amazing.

But what Larian are doing now is amazing too - I believe that the finished game may not be like BG 1&2 but will be deserving of their recognition in a new game for modern times -I truly hope someone does try for a true successor but the more I play BG enhanced edition the more I think Pillars of Eternity might be as close as we will get...hope im wrong about that ...

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Originally Posted by Tarorn
It’s really sad but right now there is more truth to it than I wished.

Game is still EA though! But the fact that larian fell silent and not only evading all the critics but stoped communicating at all gives this opinions even credit 😢


This is what I meant old balders gate game fans thinking that Larian wanted to make exactly the same game - that ship has long since sailed & there will be a reason why nobody has tried in the past 20 odd years because as i said earlier a true successor to BG1&2 would be amazing.

But what Larian are doing now is amazing too - I believe that the finished game may not be like BG 1&2 but will be deserving of their recognition in a new game for modern times -I truly hope someone does try for a true successor but the more I play BG enhanced edition the more I think Pillars of Eternity might be as close as we will get...hope im wrong about that ...
Well, Pillar of Eternity newest game is a commercial failure though, and the company has to rethink about if they would attempt another one. I'm more curious about the demand for these types of game in term of whether they could attempt a large triple AAA type of game, but smaller games like these would probably still come out if the dedicated fanbase is there. Old players have the nostalgic factor and they are used to and are fine with these mechanics, but I do think developers have to think how a new player would think when they pick up a game. I kinda understand it when I try to introduce an older game to a new friend or something, for one reason or another, they just couldn't get into it. I do hope for more CRPG games to succeed though since I quite enjoy it, but the mechanic/gameplay is a bit uncertain for me.

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Originally Posted by Tarorn
It’s really sad but right now there is more truth to it than I wished.

Game is still EA though! But the fact that larian fell silent and not only evading all the critics but stoped communicating at all gives this opinions even credit 😢


This is what I meant old balders gate game fans thinking that Larian wanted to make exactly the same game - that ship has long since sailed & there will be a reason why nobody has tried in the past 20 odd years because as i said earlier a true successor to BG1&2 would be amazing.

But what Larian are doing now is amazing too - I believe that the finished game may not be like BG 1&2 but will be deserving of their recognition in a new game for modern times -I truly hope someone does try for a true successor but the more I play BG enhanced edition the more I think Pillars of Eternity might be as close as we will get...hope im wrong about that ...

I'd say Pathfinder:Kingmaker is actually as close as we'll get to a spiritual successor. PoE is amazing in its own right, but its setting and themes are way, uh, "muddier" than the OGs. Not exactly darker, just more down to earth. P:K fits the bill pretty well.

Last edited by Innateagle; 11/01/21 09:26 PM.
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The main complaint about Baldur's Gate 3 is that the game has absolutely nothing to do with the old games (at the moment).

I guess no reasonable old fan waited from Larian a game as close as the old BG than P:K and PoE are.
Those games are successors... Larian has to create a rebirth.

BG video games are not only a matter of the city, of the rules, of RTWP, of Bhaal, of isometric 2D,...

It's also a party of 6, more than 15 companions to recruit, all of them are memorable and have an incredible presence during the whole game.
It's also an epic journey in which you travel accross many locations, villages and dungeons on a worldmap, in which time matter and in which nights are dark... in wich you can die at every corner because of an unexpected encounter and in which death is more meaningfull than 200 gold coins.
It's also a control mechanic, an ambiant, a setting in which inn, trading and church are important and in which you have to manage (a bit too much) an inventory.
It's a story you could read in a book in which everything looks realistic according to the reality of the world (except the pause for convenience).
But maybe you read it... Because it became a book.

Baldur's Gate 3 could have... And probably should have taken a few of those things and improved them for a new game. I hope it's not too late.

A few things in the old games could have lead to something enjoyable for everyone in a modern game... Even with TB, even with verticality, even with surfaces, even with Larian's strange sense of humor and vision of "romance".

And many of those "trolls" wouldn't have the feeling that Larian is erasing all they loved for decades...

Because nearly no fans only loved BG1/2 because of Bhaal, of the city, of Minsc or of D&D.
These are just a small part of the games and the history shows us that even with this, you can have two games that have nothing to do with each other.

Anyway BG3 is on the road and it's anyone's choice to continue or not.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 12/01/21 12:42 AM.
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Originally Posted by fallenj
Baldurs gate games are named after a city right? Wonder if well see that city in say act 3.

/This

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Originally Posted by zyr1987
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
No need to argue anymore, whatever you want to call BG3 <DOS3> BG2 is still the king, and thank boo for that. It destroys BG3 in terms of atmosphere, content, music, npcs, dialogue, art style, UI, gameplay et etc...

Very poor decision by Larian to utilize the name BG3 , its so far off what it once was. But no one except fans of the first games seems to care so...who cares anymore what you call your games. 100% bate marketing. Oh and no worry, well just add Minsc for the fans and everyone will be happy...yea. thanks.
Sorry, but no.

I find that BG3 blows BG2 out of the water in all areas you described except content (or will, with tweaking and more content, since we are in early access), thus far. But, hey you're welcome to your own opinion.

(Seriously, I loathed the BG1 and 2 interfaces. They were just awful for me, and the characterization felt flat as a pancake a lot of the time, but again, just my opinion)

Also, why isn't this in the BG3, DOS, and the D&D ruleset thread? I thought that's where all the discussion about whether BG3 is BG3 or DoS 3 was supposed to be contained. (and why isn't that in the megathreads?)

As a side note, when you say " But no one except fans of the first games seems to care so..." does that count those who consider themselves fans of BG 1 and 2, and see this as a worthy successor? I've seen at least a few of those floating around here.

It has been long time indeed since I played Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 I was perhaps not even adult 18 then keep my age mystery.. personally I liked most BG1 and its expansion the Werewolf Island ...

In their time BG1 and BG2 were the best games in their genre and are still today great games for those want to play them. Hard to compare to say any game that is example FPS shooter but in their fantasy genre best games!

BG1 and BG2 has very good characters and story liked it very much indeed.


BG3 camera control.... you know it took me quite a while to get used to it and it is not the best camera control out there. I even had on my countrys forums that talked about BG3 help some player that was completely lost in how to use BG 3 camera.
Oh sure I know how to use it, but even the O tactical field does not impress me.

I still LOVE this game! I would rate this game 9/10. That does not mean it is perfect. People have right to wish for more. I like the story and combat and the Crypt area was lovely Horror area, the characters though I do hope we also can get good characters in Act 2 that can join the party. Do not get me wrong I spared Lae Zel life, but sometimes it is tough with her when I try play neutral or Good character...

Shadowheart good? She has evil Deity enough said. There are no good characters. Will good? Hard for me to judge but perhaps neutral feel... his actions WARNING SPOILERS:
to try kill Goblin Leaders and try save Thiefling Village is no doubt good but his class is Warlock and...

I like this game very much. However do not for one second doubt that BG1 and BG2 were great games. This game will also be great but I also respect people that want some changes. I do not need story change it is good. However since you complained so much about the interface in old BG1 and BG2 I said my opinion about camera control in BG 3 which I Rate 7/10 (means could be better), but the whole game is though is very good and BG3 is 9/10 to me.

Once upon a time I played BG1 expansion Werewolf Island together with my brother we were not adults then on LAN connection multiplayer. I look forward to play this game with my brother and other people throgh Internet connection. Of course I have played MMOS and multiplayer games before.

BG1, BG2 and BG3 are all very good games to me.

Oh and as challenge goes I have found it a bit amusing people complain this game is hard? Ok sure it should exist Easy challenge level for people that need it. That said I do want to play on harder difficulty level then Normal...WARNING SPOILERS:
I killed all the Goblin leaders on first try including the Drow no load and not using Halsin when I got to Halsin after killing all the leaders I found out that he had fled the area in Bear form did find him then in Thiefling village after that.In addition befor going to Thiefling village after I killed all Goblin leader including the Drow I then went out to courtryard was attacked by all and killed every Golbin in the fortress and outside no load needed first try... I was level 3 when fighting towards Goblin Leaders but level 4 after killed Drow and was level 4 in courtyard battle. I have played pen and paper and feel that challenge level for me could be Hard or Nightmare... Alpha is locked at Normal challenge level currently.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 12/01/21 02:11 AM.
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Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Dexai
They are extremely shitty fallout games not worthy of the name
ROFL, this is pretty much what I was expecting.

Point is that they're still Fallout games though wink


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Honestly the video seems like a special way to troll the trolls. Wich makes him a troll too.

The whole video he explains why baldurs gate is not all about bhaalspawn saga or the city. And yes of course he is 100% right.

When you read the critics on the game about 2% of the critics are complaining about no connection to bhaalspawn saga. And even less complaining about the city.

The majority of critics are the very obvious dos3 elements and the lack of previously used mechanics. And turn based is the least of the problems here. If the rest would feel like a baldurs gate game most could live with turnbased since long before even bg1 all famous DnD games where turnbased.


The fact that he mentions that he respects the people who think it deviates too much from it origins sound absolutely dishonest when he then try’s to give the pictures that the critics are all about bhaalspawn saga or the city.


To me he is exactly the same troll as the people who say it’s not a bg3 because no bhaalspawn. And yes those are trolls. But the majority of critics is related to other things

Last edited by Baldurs-Gate-Fan; 12/01/21 09:52 AM.
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This video is a very special underhanded troll. It's the "backhanded compliment" of videos.

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