Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by T2aV
Originally Posted by Niara
the chaotic evil, Astarion

lol he's not chaotic evil, not even close.

Try playing first act only with him, and you'll see from his comments and what he approves - he's a chaotic evil.
Yeah. He's great, but he's sure as hell chaotic and most certainly evil. Still love him.


I honestly hope you have a most marvelous day!
Joined: Jun 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Originally Posted by T2aV
lol he's not chaotic evil, not even close.

Some quick light reading for you, T2aV:

Originally Posted by Niara
Classically speaking, 'Evil' alignments are defined by selfishness; to be selfish and self-motivated to the point that you and your plans and your needs or desires are all you really care about; to be self-interested in such a way that you don't care who or what gets hurt or left out in the cold, if you are pursuing your interests; to be the one who will always put yourself first and sacrifice anyone or anything else before your own self-interest; to value and utilise others only insofar as they serve your self-interest; this is the core of what it is to be classically 'evil'.

Astarion is chaotic and destructive; he likes to poke the beehive just because it's there to be poked, and he wants you to do interesting things because they're funny. Alone this would just be chaotic neutral. He also has a bloodlust and enjoys seeing other people in pain and suffering - he wants to pursue that and doesn't care who gets hurt in doing so; that is the part that makes him evil. He finds other people's suffering to be funny or amusing, and on the scale balance between his amusement against other people's suffering, he will choose his amusement; this is a part of what makes him evil. He also craves power for the sake of his own freedom and survival, and again, doesn't care who gets gutted in the pursuit of it - that, too, is what makes him evil.

Shadow is entirely self-motivated and doesn't consider other people's rights, wants, needs or desires to be at all equal to her own; she has the right, in her mind, to demand things of others to suit her own ends, but they do not have any right whatsoever to ask or require anything of her. She is the most important person in her world, by a country mile, and she will leave anyone and everyone to rot in favour of pursuing what she views as her own needs and goals. She favours avoiding overt conflict - or anything else that might risk her life or wellbeing, isn't interested in justice, or following laws unless they suite her ends. She is classically neutral evil; evil with occasional pangs of regret and conscience, maybe, but still evil. Her locked memories may evoke a change in this - but it will be [in my opinion] very poor writing if these personality traits magically flip when she gets her memories back; she's still the person that she is, after all, or should be.

Lae'zel has a doctrine and a code. It is the creed of her people, but it is a selfish, self-serving and brutal creed that devalues the lives of people who are of 'lesser' races - which is everyone. It also devalues the lives of anyone of their own race who is subordinate, and any course of action that does not follow the will of their ruler is considered wasteful at best and punishable at worst. Lae'zel follows this creed with absolute blindness and fury, and would (and has) killed even her own kin in the following of it, without thought or question, or remorse or conscience; Lae'zel is classically lawful evil.

To daMichi,

While it might be sensible in universe to have these things bundled behind the tadpole use, as a faustian bargain situation, the way that's handled in game for the players is important. What I think myself and other folks are getting at here is that it's very poor writing and very poor game design to present us with a choice, but for that choice to eventuate, in real world experience for us as players, to: "Do the evil thing, and see all the game's content, OR don't do the evil thing, and miss out on much of the game's content."

I also agree strongly with Tarlonniel that the companions should each make their own decisions about whether they develop their powers or not. Right now the implication is that they are all linked, and so *any* one of us using the powers and developing the tadpoles causes them *all* to grow and develop for everyone... but the result of that is that what the game back-handedly forces on us is the idea that *none* of our companions, no matter their personal leanings, will ever use the tadpole at all - not even Astarion - and that we alone are the only one who goes that far. Astarion likes that we did it, but he wasn't prepared to do it himself, and that makes very little sense. If we don't do it, he never does. We are the only one prepared to push it, and force that risk on our companions as well, whether they want it or not - that degree of callous disregard for others is something, especially when most of them voice strongly that they don't want to take that risk, or have that risk taken for them, that genuinely does make our character's actions quite evil aligned, if we chose to continue using the tadpole. So that makes having the 'resist' path being: "you just miss out on most stuff and get nothing to replace it" an especially bad design choice.

Joined: Nov 2020
Location: Silverymoon
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
Location: Silverymoon
Originally Posted by Niara
"Do the evil thing, and see all the game's content, OR don't do the evil thing, and miss out on much of the game's content."

"But beware! If you choose evil, you will suffer the consequences... unless you complete this cool sidequest in which you get a magic ring that solves all your problems!"


Yeah. Tough choice. Faust should've hooked up with these guys instead of Mephistopheles.

Game's not finished, things may change, as folks keep saying. I sure hope so.

Joined: Oct 2020
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Oct 2020
Somebody correct me if I remember that incorrectly, but: I have purposefully tried to use [ILLITHID][WISDOM] as much as possible and after the last dream (after which e.g. Lae'zel and others VERY strongly reprimand you for that) I abused it again - I got a kind of "now there is no coming back" dialogue from the Narrator. I also think that after that, I got [TRUE SOUL] options instead of [ILLITHID][WISDOM], but that might very well coincide with receiving the branding (not sure).

It seems rather obvious that there will be SEVERE consequences for abusing the powers too much.

But back to the OP: Yeah, the ring should actually work, not just block the powers in combat.

Joined: Jun 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
It's not related to the branding; after the third dream, all of the prompts become 'True Soul' prompts instead, and it no longer rolls. Which is kind of stupidly pointless as a progression because there was zero point to ti rolling before anyway, since the checks are impossible to fail....

Joined: Nov 2020
O
OcO Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
O
Joined: Nov 2020
Without spoiling anything further, I have seen datamined dialogue for the Moonrise Tower(or whatever the place we are going to on the UD boat) that indicates there is indeed severe consequence potential in using the tadpole.

I really hope that that section of Act1 is included soon cause I'm interested in running a couple of tests on that encounter with and without the ring.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Dom_Larian, Freddo, vometia 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5