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Originally Posted by Amitaya
pressure all gaming companies find themselves in nowadays (a pressure I will never understand)

Pressure comes from people, who just like you, don't get what they want and complain about it, I think it's easy to understand, and it's normal.

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Originally Posted by Sordak
i absoluteley dont have an issue with sexualized or naked men.

So we've arrived at a point of agreement. I'm fine with a set of armor that becomes banana hammock. Or a John Carter type chest piece.

In the game the dataminers have found an outfit that looks much like Princess Leia's slave costume. To avoid having only one gender sexualized we should encounter another another NPC in an equivalent outfit, one like the one like @kadajko posted. This avoids the message that women are objects and men are subjects.

I'm equally fine with @flyimar's suggestion - give Laezel pants -- but that leaves the (potential, not verified) NPC problem. I still think there is a problem if we only have succubi types and not incubi

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However i argue that if you sexualize a man like you sexualize a woman, he wont be sexy but emasculated.

put conan in a chainmail bikini and he looks like a joke.

I think that moment can go one of two ways -- if you see the Borat thong equivalent you can get upset that the devs put in the game but it can also serve as an invitation to experience empathy. I think the thrust of Borat's joke is to make men understand just how ridiculous some women's swimwear is. "is that comfortable? how does he keep things from falling out . . ."

So if an outfit seems on one gender, perhaps it was also ridiculous on the other gender but we've become so desensitized to the point that we can no longer spot absurdities that conform to traditional gender norms.

Didn't know that about Etruscans. Interesting.

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Im not saying that romans werent patriarchal in the anthropological sense.
Im considering the notion silly that the romans would conquer someone specifically because they were ruled by a woman.
Note that there were far more female centric cultures in the roman sphere of influence than the island celts, who, as ive pointed out, were not matriarchal, they were a patriarchic culture by your own definition that happened to be ruled by a woman.
the same could be said about austria under maria theresia.

Sure when dealing with Romans you have to remember that the historians were liars. smile But it is significant to think about why the authors would want the lie told a certain way.

I think the whole conquest of Britania is itself hard to explain. Economic accounts don't suffice. It was a poor province that remained a bleeding wound in the side of the empire until the Romans finally retreated. I think you need to look to explanations like public image -- emperors needed to maintain an image, Romans citizens needed to know how these conquests were expressions of certain world view. And every empire fears the spectacle of being defied by a minor power. I think you can see examples of various empire crushing tiny islands and the like out of fear that the defiance might spread.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Sordak
i absoluteley dont have an issue with sexualized or naked men.

So we've arrived at a point of agreement. I'm fine with a set of armor that becomes banana hammock. Or a John Carter type chest piece.

In the game the dataminers have found an outfit that looks much like Princess Leia's slave costume. To avoid having only one gender sexualized we should encounter another another NPC in an equivalent outfit, one like the one like @kadajko posted. This avoids the message that women are objects and men are subjects.

That last line is my thoughts on the issue - you've put it so succinctly!

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I think that moment can go one of two ways -- if you see the Borat thong equivalent you can get upset that the devs put in the game but it can also serve as an invitation to experience empathy. I think the thrust of Borat's joke is to make men understand just how ridiculous some women's swimwear is. "is that comfortable? how does he keep things from falling out . . ."

So if an outfit seems on one gender, perhaps it was also ridiculous on the other gender but we've become so desensitized to the point that we can no longer spot absurdities that conform to traditional gender norms.
I have posted one request/reminder to keep the thread away from wider gender issues. I am not intending to post another one. This is not the place to discuss gender issues, it is a gaming forum to discuss the BG3 game.

Keep the thread about BG3's armour.

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Originally Posted by Sadurian
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I think that moment can go one of two ways -- if you see the Borat thong equivalent you can get upset that the devs put in the game but it can also serve as an invitation to experience empathy. I think the thrust of Borat's joke is to make men understand just how ridiculous some women's swimwear is. "is that comfortable? how does he keep things from falling out . . ."

So if an outfit seems on one gender, perhaps it was also ridiculous on the other gender but we've become so desensitized to the point that we can no longer spot absurdities that conform to traditional gender norms.
I have posted one request/reminder to keep the thread away from wider gender issues. I am not intending to post another one. This is not the place to discuss gender issues, it is a gaming forum to discuss the BG3 game.

Keep the thread about BG3's armour.

But isn't the question of gender representation relevant to question of armor appearance? If we are talking about a difference in armor appearance -- Gith men get pants, Gith women do not and dataminers have shown us that game includes sexy outfits for one gender but not the other -- the pattern of representation of men and women in popular media seems relevant to the topic on hand.

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You cannot discuss the difference between armour appearance, without discussing the gender.

Not in Fantasy.

Either we accept it as a foundational aspect of Fantasy Art, that persists due to Fan Service, or we dont, but that IS why things are different.

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Wasn't the whole topic about how female and male armours are different and the reasons why?


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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Sadurian
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I think that moment can go one of two ways -- if you see the Borat thong equivalent you can get upset that the devs put in the game but it can also serve as an invitation to experience empathy. I think the thrust of Borat's joke is to make men understand just how ridiculous some women's swimwear is. "is that comfortable? how does he keep things from falling out . . ."

So if an outfit seems on one gender, perhaps it was also ridiculous on the other gender but we've become so desensitized to the point that we can no longer spot absurdities that conform to traditional gender norms.
I have posted one request/reminder to keep the thread away from wider gender issues. I am not intending to post another one. This is not the place to discuss gender issues, it is a gaming forum to discuss the BG3 game.

Keep the thread about BG3's armour.

But isn't the question of gender representation relevant to question of armor appearance? If we are talking about a difference in armor appearance -- Gith men get pants, Gith women do not and dataminers have shown us that game includes sexy outfits for one gender but not the other -- the pattern of representation of men and women in popular media seems relevant to the topic on hand.

Gith men get pants??? From where? In game they dont have it.


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Originally Posted by fylimar
Wasn't the whole topic about how female and male armours are different and the reasons why?

The merged thread certainly was. Sexual Dimorphism and Armour or whatever it was called.

The WHY is simple. Fantasy Art styles that are foundational to how the setting type has been presented for decades, and fan service.

That is it.

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Gith men get pants??? From where? In game they dont have it.

Make a Gith warrior man, find Lae'zel trade her armor back and forth. Put the camera behind and focus on the legs and butt while running.

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@Sadurian

I agree with @KillerRabbit and @Scribe.

I don't want to be disrespectful and at the end of the day it is your decisions to cull this discussion, however I do believe that discussion of gender is indeed closely linked to the subject of differenes in appearence between male and female armor in BG3.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Gith men get pants??? From where? In game they dont have it.

Make a Gith warrior man, find Lae'zel trade her armor back and forth. Put the camera behind and focus on the legs and butt while running.

I'm too lazy for that, but as far as I know Git near the bridge don't have pants, even if the design is a little different, it's still not pants. Am I wrong?


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Likewise I'm too lazy to travel to the bridge. smile No compatible saves near there. Somewhere on this thread there is a screenshot of the differences.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Likewise I'm too lazy to travel to the bridge. smile No compatible saves near there. Somewhere on this thread there is a screenshot of the differences.

The problem is that screenshot is not GIT. And it is pulled from the client and it may be a bug of an incorrectly pulled file. I watched the video on YouTube and I don't see their pants there, but maybe I see something wrong, so I asked.


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Good point. Always important to verify. smile

Takes a few minutes to verify -- just make a gith Tav really quickly and run around with Laezel swapping armor back and forth.

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Okay folks, if you believe that you cannot have a discussion about armour without discussing gender issues then I'm afraid that the thread will have to be locked.

I tried to warn you that we would not tolerate discussion of gender issues on this forum. That is not the sort of topic we want to see being argued on what is supposed to be a gaming thread. If you wish to talk about gender politics and equality then please do so elsewhere on the internet.

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