Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 22 of 30 1 2 20 21 22 23 24 29 30
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
I don't see that as a problem. They just need to add the ability selection all or a few squad members. However, mostly I didn't have any problems with the chain. Quite a classic system, as in poe, even seems inconvenient to me. Also my companions for the most part avoided the "dangerous" places, not counting the traps, because the traps need to be detected.

For me, the main problem is stealth. I'm tired of sending each character to stealth, the same as it was with jumps, well, they sort of solved the problem with jumps.

So the chain itself can not be removed, they just need to add the ability to select.


I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
Joined: Jul 2014
Tuco Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Nyloth
I don't see that as a problem. They just need to add the ability selection all or a few squad members.
Well, what a bizarre thing to say. The problem is PRECISELY that they "need to add it" because it's not there.
The current (and incredibly shitty) control scheme always allows the player to control only one single character no matter what.

Quote
For me, the main problem is stealth. I'm tired of sending each character to stealth
But that's just a symptom of how the (again, incredibly shitty) system works: since it doesn't allow multiple selection, it also doesn't allow to give commands to a specific subset of units.
Even if they "fixed" it by making that the stealth toggle apply to everyone at the same time, it would STILL be a lousy solution, because the issue is precisely that the player may not want to necessarily extend a command to a full party, only to a selected part of it.

Quote
the same as it was with jumps, well, they sort of solved the problem with jumps.
That was a lousy fix as well, since, sure, autofollow on jump is mostly better than "do it manually for each one", but still leagues behind the ideal scenario of "Let me choose who needs to jump and who doesn't".


Quote
So the chain itself can not be removed, they just need to add the ability to select.
"Can not"? Says who?
Also, the entire point of the chain/unchain system is that the game in its current form doesn't want to give the player the "ability to select" [more than one unit]. Which makes it the core of the issue.

Last edited by Tuco; 17/01/21 09:10 AM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Tuco
"Can not"? Says who?

LUL English is not my native language, stop bully me. I mean, for me, the problem is not in the chain itself. It is not necessary remove... idk

Originally Posted by Tuco
"Let me choose who needs to jump and who doesn't".

You can separate the characters so that you can choose who to jump and who not to jump. It's actually not very difficult. I'm just not interested in constantly separating characters and sending them to different points outside of combat. Well I mean not in fight.

Originally Posted by Tuco
control only one single character

I'm sure in other games, you're essentially controlling only 1 character. Selection works essentially the same as a chain if you want to control 2-3 characters. If I need only 2 characters to go somewhere, then I calmly separate the two of them. Only "general features" like stealth don't work. That's what I don't like.


I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
Joined: Jul 2014
Tuco Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Nyloth
You can separate the characters so that you can choose who to jump and who not to jump. It's actually not very difficult.
Sure, it's also actually very slow and convoluted to do, which once again is precisely the problem.

Originally Posted by Nyloth
I'm sure in other games, you're essentially controlling only 1 character.
Well, you'd be wrong there.

Last edited by Tuco; 17/01/21 11:09 AM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
To select and move 1 character in BG3 (or DoS1/2) you have to make 3 click and drag... Probably more because it won't work each time.

I guess that's enough to understand how bad this chain is.

The game would be WAY more fluent and user friendly with a classic system. I hope they will put their pride aside because their BG3 deserve the best.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 17/01/21 06:00 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
M
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Tuco
"Can not"? Says who?

LUL English is not my native language, stop bully me. I mean, for me, the problem is not in the chain itself. It is not necessary remove... idk

Originally Posted by Tuco
"Let me choose who needs to jump and who doesn't".

You can separate the characters so that you can choose who to jump and who not to jump. It's actually not very difficult. I'm just not interested in constantly separating characters and sending them to different points outside of combat. Well I mean not in fight.

Originally Posted by Tuco
control only one single character

I'm sure in other games, you're essentially controlling only 1 character. Selection works essentially the same as a chain if you want to control 2-3 characters. If I need only 2 characters to go somewhere, then I calmly separate the two of them. Only "general features" like stealth don't work. That's what I don't like.
The problem with the current system is that you can only select and issue commands to a single character at a time. In games like Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, you can select any number of characters in your party at once and issue the same command to all selected characters at once.

If BG3 allowed for classic RTS controls, the way basically every other CRPG for the last 20 years has, your problem of issuing the sneak command would be solved, because you'd only need to drag a box around your party (or press the Select All button) and then click sneak, and every character would start sneaking. Same with movement and jump commands. Splitting the party up wouldn't need to involve dragging portraits off of or on to a dumb chain system, you would simple select the characters you want to go one way, and issue that command.

The fact of the matter is that classic CRPG controls are just faster, easier, and more user friendly than Larian's portrait chain system. Which is why there are 9 pages here of people in nearly unanimous agreement that BG3's controls suck.

Joined: Jan 2021
S
addict
Online Content
addict
S
Joined: Jan 2021
How can literally anyone defend this system when other games prove how much better other systems are?

Joined: Aug 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Aug 2020
I feel like the most solid defence anyone has come up with for the current movement system is that it's salvageable or they offer suggestions for improvement. Which is not great considering they've used this system for two other games at this point. I don't think I've seen anyone really give a reason that this system is actually better than the typical system used for cRPGs in any meaningful capacity. This really does seem to be the one point where everyone more or less agrees-the big divide is people who think it's totally intolerable and people who say that it just needs tweaking to some extent.

Joined: Jul 2014
Tuco Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
I feel like the most solid defence anyone has come up with for the current movement system is that it's salvageable or they offer suggestions for improvement. Which is not great considering they've used this system for two other games at this point. I don't think I've seen anyone really give a reason that this system is actually better than the typical system used for cRPGs in any meaningful capacity. This really does seem to be the one point where everyone more or less agrees-the big divide is people who think it's totally intolerable and people who say that it just needs tweaking to some extent.
Yeah, I've been saying this for a while: there are basically no fans of this system.
Even in the best case scenarios, there's a (incredibly narrow) minority of people who seem to think it could stop being completely shit IF given a few meaningful changes.
Not exactly the warmest and most flattering endorsement.

And that's ignoring how often these rare "defenders" seem to be among the people who simply has poor familiarity with the genre and the better alternatives out there.

Last edited by Tuco; 18/01/21 01:24 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
I feel like the most solid defence anyone has come up with for the current movement system is that it's salvageable or they offer suggestions for improvement. Which is not great considering they've used this system for two other games at this point. I don't think I've seen anyone really give a reason that this system is actually better than the typical system used for cRPGs in any meaningful capacity. This really does seem to be the one point where everyone more or less agrees-the big divide is people who think it's totally intolerable and people who say that it just needs tweaking to some extent.
Yeah, I've been saying this for a while: there are basically no fans of this system.
Even in the best case scenarios, there's a (incredibly narrow) minority of people who seem to think it could stop being completely shit IF given a few meaningful changes.
Not exactly the warmest and most flattering endorsement.

And that's ignoring how often these rare "defenders" seem to be among the people who simply has poor familiarity with the genre and the better alternatives out there.

No? I've played a lot of games of this genre. I first saw this system in DOS2, and it was really unusual and uncomfortable for me after other games. BUT after DOS2, it seems quite normal for me. Now it does not make me angry, I know how to use this system, I just think that it needs to be supplemented. I don't consider it something deadly terrible for the game. It can be better ofc BUT...

...DOS2 still one of my favorite games, even it have this system.

Also, other games had an active tactical pause system, and DOS2 had a different system, also very unusual. After DOS, I don't like active tactical pause system. Right now it's too fast for me and looks like a slideshow. So it's not about how much experience you have in the genre. Maybe it's about how well you adapt.

Last edited by Nyloth; 18/01/21 04:06 PM.

I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
Joined: Jul 2014
Tuco Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Nyloth
No? I've played a lot of games of this genre.
Well, yes, actually?
You already proved in your previous posts to have a poor understanding about the limitations of the very system you are defending.

Last edited by Tuco; 18/01/21 04:07 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Nyloth
No? I've played a lot of games of this genre.
Well, yes, actually?


You already proved in your previous posts to have a poor understanding about the limitations of the very system you are defending.

No, I just don't know english very well, so I can't explain it to you. Btw you are quite aggressive.


I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Considering something is not deadly terrible doesn't mean it can't be strongly improved because it's unconfortable.

Oh wait... That's exactly what you said.

How could anyone think that players should adapt themselves to an unconfortable system instead of thinking that a bad system should be adapted to be more confortable ?

Not sure anyone would love Larian's games less with something more confortable, more user friendly, more fluent, and faster... (Less tedious, less buggy,...)
I guess I could say that people would enjoy them even more...

Last edited by Maximuuus; 18/01/21 04:33 PM.
Joined: Jan 2021
S
addict
Online Content
addict
S
Joined: Jan 2021
One can be comfortable with a system, without realizing its failings.

There are many many things in life we do because we are used to it, not because its the correct or optimal way.

The movement system in this game is actually bad, it really is.

Joined: Apr 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Apr 2020
With the amount of money involved now, and probably later, - and this title - yes, they should do their best to give to us the best system possible... :
it is a Responsability. Being Responsible.
This is the way. And the stuff of legend.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
Cleric of Innuendo
Offline
Cleric of Innuendo
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Btw you are quite aggressive.
I agree. Tuco, please cut out the confrontational tone.

Joined: Sep 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Nyloth
No? I've played a lot of games of this genre.
Well, yes, actually?


You already proved in your previous posts to have a poor understanding about the limitations of the very system you are defending.

No, I just don't know english very well, so I can't explain it to you. Btw you are quite aggressive.
From some previous posts I believe we (you and me) have the same native language (Russian). So feel free to ask me for help with translation.

Joined: Jul 2014
Tuco Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Sadurian
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Btw you are quite aggressive.
I agree. Tuco, please cut out the confrontational tone.
I have no idea of what you're talking aobut.
Just because I'm having a discussion about the merits of what someone said it doesn't mean there's animosity behind it.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
Joined: Jan 2021
S
stranger
Offline
stranger
S
Joined: Jan 2021
This particular system is a bit cumbersome in some ways but I’m used to it and don’t care if they change it. It accomplishes what it needs to without me having to worry about accidentally selecting characters I don’t want selected, though I agree it isn’t fast at all.

However, this looks like a decent thread to mention the AI issues I’ve been having with it. Enemies appear to think unlinked characters are not in the same fight, even though all characters are shown in the same initiative order, causing them to prefer outright killing unconscious characters rather than attack others that can fight back.

Joined: Jan 2021
N
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
N
Joined: Jan 2021
+1, Would be great if someone from Larian team addressed the issue. Nothing major, just that they are aware of the problem and are working on it.


The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful
Page 22 of 30 1 2 20 21 22 23 24 29 30

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5