Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Nov 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Ayvah
I think it does make a good point though. The intellect devourer is certainly not the only thing that's horrific/disgusting in the game.

No one said it was. The argument is that it goes to a different level than scenes like the one with the fishermen, and is the only scene so far that does so.

Originally Posted by Ayvah
However, if you're not prepared to feel a somewhat disgusted or horrified during some scenes of the game then I think it's best that you sit this one out.

And the argument here is that digging someone's brain out of their skull with your bare hands in a cutscene close-up goes beyond being somewhat disgusting. I played both Divinity: Original Sin games, both rated M, neither went for gross-out horror on this scale. Maybe they would have if cutscenes were a thing in those games - close-ups of elves feasting on body parts anyone? - and they're taking advantage of their new toy to play around in a way they couldn't before, I dunno, but I hope it's out of their system.

Joined: Jan 2021
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Jan 2021
I personally really appreciated the gruesome body horror especially since it sets the tone for the whole brain tadpole kind of activity, though the thumb jab was hilariously comical and not at all what I expected after the medicine check and careful removal process.

Maybe Larian could introduce a low violence mode with less blood, brains and the like somewhere down the line for the more easily disturbed?

Joined: Jan 2021
Location: Netherlands
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jan 2021
Location: Netherlands
I still do not think the issue is that it is disturbing (in my opinion it isn't). It is just "gross" in a horror/gore-fest B-movie kind of way. In a way, it is even comical and silly, that our character would just... grab into a skull to wiggle out a brain like that. It does nothing to make the Mindflayer thing creepy, it actually distracts from all that with cheap gore/in-your-face grossness. In light with what else is shown in the game and how other events that are meant to be creepy/disturbing are handled, this scene just looks out of place. Not in a good way and not creepy at all, it makes it hard to take the scene or this intellect devourer seriously, which is kind of the opposite of what is intended (the intention being creepy stuff, I figure).

For me, it kind of breaks immersion and it makes it harder to take the main character seriously too, for just grabbing into a brain after waking up in a alien ship that is literally in hell, where you want to likely escape from. I skip that part for this very reason, not because it creeps me out.

Joined: Oct 2015
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2015
Originally Posted by Etruscan
I prefer my horror elements a little more understated, what the imagination conjures can be far more scary than having all the gory details shoved in your face.
Yeah, but I mean... BG3 has graphics, and has committed to taking advantage of using a cinematic camera perspective during interactions. They didn't do this with DOS2, and I really think DOS2 suffered for it. It was a lot harder to relate to characters because you couldn't see them emote from a top-down perspective.

Of course, this doesn't mean it'll be Metal Gear Solid tier professional cinematography, so there will be scenes that would be better if the camera were used more creatively. I'm just not expecting that kind of sophistication so I'm not going to complain about the cinematography being a bit clumsy.

I will again contradict everyone's disgust about the intellect devourer by saying I found other things more disturbing. For example, the original trailer showed a character transforming into a mindflayer. Additionally, there was the sequence with the tadpole entering an eyeball portrayed both from first-person and third-person perspective. I personally found these more horrifying, though less squicky.

Originally Posted by Niara
To the spoilered question,

Unusual exceptions to standard norms are just that - unusual exceptions. There's nothing wrong with having something that is distinctly not the norm, and indeed, if we never encountered such things, the world would be a much more boring, drab and mundane place. As such, an individual example of something that stands starkly against the normative established lore, and is clearly noted out and lamp-shaded as being so, is perfectly fine; it is its unusual nature that is interesting.

In the case of the Ormellum, he is an illithid arcanist; illithids have a strong distaste, almost disgust, for those with arcane abilities that occur with their own; one of the less stated reasons for this, however, is that these unusual individuals usually have a more pronounced sense of self and are far more likely to find themselves at odds with the will of the elder brain. Those that do find themselves at odds with the will of the elder brain, or craving more free will of their own are either executed, or else they escape and break free, going to ground and trying to make sure they don't come back into the influence of their, or any other, elder brain ever again. they become rogue, independent illithids. This is very rare, but not unprecedented.

As such, finding this rogue illithid down here, hiding and doing research as he looks for a 'better way' to be and to live, is extremely unusual and a very unlikely thing, but it is also entirely believable within the realm space.
I think that having one explicitly good Illithid leaves open the question as to whether the other Illithid who captured you may have some kind of "good" motive. End justifies the means kind of thing. It could lead to some interesting moral dilemmas.
I really like the nuance that Larian has brought to all the "evilness" stuff in BG3. The introduction of Viconia in BG2 (and the drow in general) was very poorly written.
From my perspective, I rock up to this group of people about to burn her at the stake literally just for being a drow. My only option is to let her be murdered or kill the crowd of bloodthirsty peasants. I rescue her and then immediately she makes it clear that no, she really is a remorseless murderer.

Anyway, I shouldn't dwell on this too much in this thread. I'm just very happy about Larian going all-in on the idea of having characters who have agency as individuals and are able to act counter to their default alignment. (Evil druids, rebellious goblins, good mindflayers, etc.)

Joined: Nov 2020
E
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
E
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Ayvah
Yeah, but I mean... BG3 has graphics, and has committed to taking advantage of using a cinematic camera perspective during interactions. They didn't do this with DOS2, and I really think DOS2 suffered for it. It was a lot harder to relate to characters because you couldn't see them emote from a top-down perspective.

Of course, this doesn't mean it'll be Metal Gear Solid tier professional cinematography, so there will be scenes that would be better if the camera were used more creatively. I'm just not expecting that kind of sophistication so I'm not going to complain about the cinematography being a bit clumsy.

I never played DOS2 so cannot share an opinion on the point you made about companions and emotes but what I would say is that BG2 did not have cinematics and I found that the writing was enough to convey the companions' personalities and enough for me to relate to the ones I liked to travel with. The issue with the cinematics at present is that the main protagonist is mute and expressionless for almost all of the interactions which just totally sours the experience for me. I'd rather just read some dialogue quite frankly.

Last edited by Etruscan; 20/01/21 10:58 PM.
Joined: Jun 2020
veteran
Online Content
veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Originally Posted by Etruscan
I would totally agree that having an exception to the norm can make for an interesting and integral part of a story; I guess my reticence towards is it that so much seems exceptional in this game that there is little in the way of 'normal', so far at least in EA (we start the game experiencing planar travel, visit the Underdark all in Act 1 and our party members include a [redacted]

Yes, that is very much a concern for many and a problem with the writing direction, as many people have voiced their opinion on. It's hard to make anything really feel special or unusual at all when literally everything you encounter is exceptional unusual and special and amazing and unique. The epic mary-sue-ness of our companions characters is a sore point for many, and even outside of them, they've gone out of their way to throw so many strange exceptions on us that the game struggles to ground itself with any kind of baseline at all.


... and yes, they absolutely need to get someone on board who can talk to them about cutscene direction and cinematography while there's still room to fix thigns, because they simply do not know what they're doing with them; another person has made an excellent video that highlights all the ways in which their scene direction is a complete flop, and I've put up a similar analysis on their very flat and ignorant design of other scenes available in game (https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=739556&page=1) and (https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=750763#Post750763) for those interested.

Last edited by Niara; 20/01/21 11:05 PM.
Joined: Nov 2020
E
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
E
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Ayvah
I think that having one explicitly good Illithid leaves open the question as to whether the other Illithid who captured you may have some kind of "good" motive. End justifies the means kind of thing. It could lead to some interesting moral dilemmas.
I really like the nuance that Larian has brought to all the "evilness" stuff in BG3. The introduction of Viconia in BG2 (and the drow in general) was very poorly written.
From my perspective, I rock up to this group of people about to burn her at the stake literally just for being a drow. My only option is to let her be murdered or kill the crowd of bloodthirsty peasants. I rescue her and then immediately she makes it clear that no, she really is a remorseless murderer.

Anyway, I shouldn't dwell on this too much in this thread. I'm just very happy about Larian going all-in on the idea of having characters who have agency as individuals and are able to act counter to their default alignment. (Evil druids, rebellious goblins, good mindflayers, etc.)

As I said previously, I have no issue at all with characters written into the story who defy convention; my reservations are that when there are so many exceptional stories/characters then nothing is truly 'special' anymore, everything is suddenly the exception...in my opinion anyway.

Joined: Dec 2020
Location: CA
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Dec 2020
Location: CA
Originally Posted by Etruscan
As I said previously, I have no issue at all with characters written into the story who defy convention; my reservations are that when there are so many exceptional stories/characters then nothing is truly 'special' anymore, everything is suddenly the exception...in my opinion anyway.

Agreed.

I’d say subverting expectations is so common now in modern writing that it’s practically a cliche.

Joined: Oct 2015
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2015
Originally Posted by Etruscan
what I would say is that BG2 did not have cinematics and I found that the writing was enough to convey the companions' personalities
I agree. But I think you need to commit to it properly. The Baldur's Gate games did a much better job of balancing this in my view. In DOS2 I found the visuals were empty and boring and only really distracted from the text/dialogue.

For example, with Pathfinder: Kingmaker I found that the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuGEUdtIW0I]storybook events[/url were the best part of the storytelling.

BG3 has vastly better storytelling than DOS2 in my view, because it commits to cinematic storytelling properly.

Originally Posted by Niara
... and yes, they absolutely need to get someone on board who can talk to them about cutscene direction and cinematography while there's still room to fix thigns,

I just think it's not a priority. I think the cinematography is adequate. Meantwhile, I think they've done a pretty good job of putting resources into the story/dialogue trees, and I want them to double-down on that immersion. I like that my drow can walk up to a certain goblin camp and the goblins just assume I'm their friend. But there are broken bits -- like where later I got attacked in another part of the same camp for no reason.

So yeah, I think better cinematography would be "nice to have", but there are other things I care about more.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Ayvah
I really like the nuance that Larian has brought to all the "evilness" stuff in BG3. The introduction of Viconia in BG2 (and the drow in general) was very poorly written.
From my perspective, I rock up to this group of people about to burn her at the stake literally just for being a drow. My only option is to let her be murdered or kill the crowd of bloodthirsty peasants. I rescue her and then immediately she makes it clear that no, she really is a remorseless murderer.

What? I think it's an pretty good twist on the "poor innocent woman about to be burned on the stake" stereotype.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Oct 2015
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2015
They were lynching her literally because she was a dark-skinned elf (with no evidence of wrongdoing). In order to prevent her lynching, you have to murder a crowd of people and gain evil reputation. Then the "twist" is that their racism was completely justified and she deserved it.

Not a fan.

Joined: Jan 2021
Location: Netherlands
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jan 2021
Location: Netherlands
They are lynching her because she is a dark elf. That is how drow were treated in FR. In bg1 you have to fight a Flaming Fist as well to recruit her. It makes perfect sense in the setting.

Neither situation makes you lose reputation though. You get a -2 rep penalty when she joins the party (it goes away when she leaves too) which is again representing the setting with drow feared and treated with suspicion, disdain and outright hate.

Joined: Oct 2015
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2015
Originally Posted by TheFoxWhisperer
They are lynching her because she is a dark elf. That is how drow were treated in FR. In bg1 you have to fight a Flaming Fist as well to recruit her. It makes perfect sense in the setting.
Kind of getting off track here. I think the Minthara thread covers some of my criticism of the alignment system in case you want to discuss that. Anyway, while usually the alignment system can just be excused as a lazy way to identify enemy encounters; in this scene it became directly allegorical to racism in the real world. I can't speak for her introduction in BG1 because I don't remember it clearly enough. From what I've read though, the dude trying to kill her has an excuse though.

Originally Posted by TheFoxWhisperer
Neither situation makes you lose reputation though. You get a -2 rep penalty when she joins the party (it goes away when she leaves too) which is again representing the setting with drow feared and treated with suspicion, disdain and outright hate.
Fair point. I just remember losing reputation. That might have been the actual reason.

Bringing this back on topic, I like to imagine that the intellect devourer and I can be friends again after the prologue. Some people have cat familiars. Some people have cute squishy intellect devourers. lol.

[Linked Image from pbs.twimg.com]

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Ayvah
They were lynching her literally because she was a dark-skinned elf (with no evidence of wrongdoing). In order to prevent her lynching, you have to murder a crowd of people and gain evil reputation. Then the "twist" is that their racism was completely justified and she deserved it.

Not a fan.

The while encounter is set up to make you think she is an innocent fair maiden victim of oppression who you can run in and rescue in your shining armour. The twist is that she ain't none and you were a fool, not a knight.

I mean it's fair if you prefer the old stereotypes and tropes to inversions of them. I can agree to disagree about that.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5